Boudrias Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 3 minutes ago, -DLC- said: Even though I'm ok with giving this a bit more time with Green at the helm, sometimes a coaching change shakes the players up as they carry the responsibility of that, to some degree, on their shoulders. It becomes real, fast. A wake up call. You can coach players and tell players and show players but if they aren't listening do you just keep swapping them in/out? If it flatlines? When it moves away from "them" and their actions suddenly is impacting others in a way that means they lose their jobs, it can be significant. I am not pushing for Green to go (yet), but I'm certainly open to it and feel that would be the next logical step if this continues NOT to work. I also accept that wins don't have to be pretty and that we're close to NOT losing some of these games (I'm hesitant to say "winning them"). Momentum is HUGE in confidence and chemistry building so a few wins that the team can grind out would maybe help them to loosen up, relax and play with more creativity rather than hesitancy. It can turn around quickly if.... But we have been pushing this if along for awhile. Holding our breath, waiting for them to really gel and get some rhythm going. It's hard to keep hanging on to that thread. A great, convincing win will smash these conversations. But only momentarily and it's got to be a more consistent show of success. I still hang on to faith that they can turn it around...it's early and I'm not throwing in the towel. But I also no longer am resistant to the Fire Green stuff because it may just be what has to happen soon. Like it or not, you have to try something new. We've tried new players. I still believe this team can turn it around but it's getting harder to justify that stance. I don't have a problem with this group struggling for awhile. Builds character doesn't it? Set the systems in place and have the players execute. It appears the biggest current problem is execution. What I see in the group so far in this homestand is that their play is coming around. Adding Dickensen, Bailey, Garland, Highmore, OEL, and Rathbone is a big deal. I am sure the season will generate some surprises. Adjust and evaluate. Team is 9 games into the season and 2 games below .500. Get Hamonic, Motte and Sutter back and then have a conversation. 21 game mark is time for a review. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnAntoski Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Darius said: Im not sure, and I only say that because I think this team on paper is better than what it has shown. If Benning choses a new coach and the team turns it around it proves that the current coach cant direct the team correctly. If the team still flounders...well...thats when the axe comes out and Benning should go. I think Benning deserves the benefit of the doubt because the roster looks like it can do better. At the same time some other posters have made valid points. What if EP and BB were playing at levels we saw them play at in the past, would they even be in this hole? What if we had sutter and Motte... Im not sure. At some point the what ifs and the excuses need to end and someone needs to be accountable. Great points brought up from all sides and from my POV, there seems to be a cloud of bad luck hovering over this team/city cause being in the stands I see alot of excitements but the energy is just not right. Edited October 31, 2021 by ShawnAntoski 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 14 minutes ago, Wolfgang Durst said: would you trust Jim Benning to hire the "right headcoach" for this team? I mean Willie Desjardins was a clear miss - even for fans it was clear that he isn't an NHL coach. Travis Green with no NHL experience named as headcoach. WD was always going to be a fall guy. Do you seriously think a guy like Hitchcock or Babcock would ever consider us? No way. Thing that people need to remember, this team was going to suck. No GM or coach would turn it around in a few short years. If Holland couldn't make it work in Detroit ... well just a gentle reminder - they are in the same camp as us far as the cycle goes. I'd really like to know what Linden wanted to do. Not this i'm sure. But it is what it is. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWJC Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 13 minutes ago, D-Money said: I'd love Miller on my team... For about a year. He was amazing his first year here. Started out gangbusters in Tampa too. If this year continues to go sideways, were should get quite a haul for Miller, likely more than we paid for him. Because teams will know a rejuvenated Miller can be an absolutely elite player, and definitely a difference maker in the playoffs. It’s not a coincidence how we all kept taking about how good the players played in the PAST. Most of them are not the same players after years of Green’s coaching. Expect for very few, there is little to no progression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnAntoski Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, RWJC said: It’s not a coincidence how we all kept taking about how good the players played in the PAST. Most of them are not the same players after years of Green’s coaching. Expect for very few, there is little to no progression. Yeah, with most of players on the roster still intact - there should still be enough foundational pieces from previous years to have some structure to integrate the new players. So far, and year after year under Greens' tutelage there has no been no REAL year to year upward progression. Edited October 31, 2021 by ShawnAntoski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post stawns Posted October 31, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted October 31, 2021 (edited) 22 minutes ago, D-Money said: I'd love Miller on my team... For about a year. He was amazing his first year here. Started out gangbusters in Tampa too. If this year continues to go sideways, were should get quite a haul for Miller, likely more than we paid for him. Because teams will know a rejuvenated Miller can be an absolutely elite player, and definitely a difference maker in the playoffs. I find people here have a perverted idea of "passion". Slamming your stick, screaming obscentites when things go wrong, slamming the door shut etc isn't passion and Miller doesn't play with passion. Passion is going out there and giving everything you have on every single shift and when you mes up, you work twice as hard to make it right. Bo plays with passion, Miller exhibits what we'd call brat behaviour in elementary school. When things are going well and his way, he's an angel. When things don't go his way, he throws a tantrum and pouts. Edited October 31, 2021 by stawns 2 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 Had a wine about Green in the other thread. Not in a happy place last night after another humiliating display to McDiver and the Lottery lads. So will try and start with some positives today Well I think we can all agree we have at least one truly elite player right now ... Demko - just wow. Marky might be posting shutouts right now, but Demmer is the real deal at a much younger age. Deserves a lot better from the players in front of him that's for sure. Petey and Brock starting to look a bit sharper. Our D generally playing quiet strong, its our ability for the forward group to support them in transition that's the problem. Onto the not so good - without covering the topics that have already been beaten to death of course.. Bo's line doesn't seem to be able to generate or drive play so much since returning home. This has been a pattern for a few seasons now. The 3rd line - I like the Podz, Garland wingers, but Dickinson doesn't seem to be particularly effect at generating scoring chances. He reminds me a lot of Sutter that way, tho bigger and stronger for sure. Now that in itself would be a huge problem, but it leaves that line without an identity. They don't have the coordination to generate a lot of offense and they are no longer a crash and bang or shutdown line. Slightly envious of Mini and EDM who have these big crash and bang 3rd lines that can really tilt the ice and leave the D bruised and battered for the Top skill lines to jump on and exploit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darius Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 4 minutes ago, IBatch said: WD was always going to be a fall guy. Do you seriously think a guy like Hitchcock or Babcock would ever consider us? No way. Thing that people need to remember, this team was going to suck. No GM or coach would turn it around in a few short years. If Holland couldn't make it work in Detroit ... well just a gentle reminder - they are in the same camp as us far as the cycle goes. I'd really like to know what Linden wanted to do. Not this i'm sure. But it is what it is. I think this is an excellent point and cant be emphasized enough. Looking at that 2013 team, the age of the players, the state of the prospect pool, it looked like a tough task to turn the franchise around. But here is my dilemma....at what point can we start expecting more? In my mind last year was the last year of sanctuary the GM and Coaching staff got. They have picked top 10 multiple times, they have traded high value assets to bolster the young players with players that are a little older and can produce immediately. Do you think its ok at this point to miss the playoffs again? (genuine question for you because I consider you one of the more knowledgable posters) And to make things more questionable, I think its highly possible that this start could be just a blip. Get the top line going, get motte and sutter back for penalty killing and they could be off to the races. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knucklehd Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 3 hours ago, rekker said: I see total passive play in our zone. I see middle ice given up way too easy on zone entries. I also don't see player B joining player A on board battles enough. But I do agree on which comes first, bad direction or bad execution. Idk...I have seen a few of the practice clips, and in all of them, the coaches are chirping for more intensity and battle. I feel the execution is the problem, and that's on the players, not the coaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 3 minutes ago, Eddie said: Had a wine about Green in the other thread. Not in a happy place last night after another humiliating display to McDiver and the Lottery lads. So will try and start with some positives today Well I think we can all agree we have at least one truly elite player right now ... Demko - just wow. Marky might be posting shutouts right now, but Demmer is the real deal at a much younger age. Deserves a lot better from the players in front of him that's for sure. Petey and Brock starting to look a bit sharper. Our D generally playing quiet strong, its our ability for the forward group to support them in transition that's the problem. Onto the not so good - without covering the topics that have already been beaten to death of course.. Bo's line doesn't seem to be able to generate or drive play so much since returning home. This has been a pattern for a few seasons now. The 3rd line - I like the Podz, Garland wingers, but Dickinson doesn't seem to be particularly effect at generating scoring chances. He reminds me a lot of Sutter that way, tho bigger and stronger for sure. Now that in itself would be a huge problem, but it leaves that line without an identity. They don't have the coordination to generate a lot of offense and they are no longer a crash and bang or shutdown line. Slightly envious of Mini and EDM who have these big crash and bang 3rd lines that can really tilt the ice and leave the D bruised and battered for the Top skill lines to jump on and exploit. I felt a lot better after last night's game. They showed some fight last night and played much better. I was happy to see Petey play with some battle, at the very least. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darius Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 4 minutes ago, stawns said: I find people here have a perverted idea of "passion". Slamming your stick, screaming obscentites when things go wrong, slamming the door shut etc isn't passion and Miller doesn't play with passion. Passion is going out there and giving everything you have on every single shift and when you mes up, you work twice as hard to make it right. Bo plays with passion, Miller exhibits what we'd call brat behaviour in elementary school. When things are going well and his way, he's an angel. When things don't go his way, he throws a tantrum and pouts. agree with your views on Miller. Hed be the first player I would trade that still could fetch a nice return. Besides his behavior, my concern is the Miller we see now is the true Miller and the one excellent year he had here was an aberration. The Miller we see this year, and saw last year, is the version of Miller that got him traded out of NY. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 1 minute ago, Darius said: agree with your views on Miller. Hed be the first player I would trade that still could fetch a nice return. Besides his behavior, my concern is the Miller we see now is the true Miller and the one excellent year he had here was an aberration. The Miller we see this year, and saw last year, is the version of Miller that got him traded out of NY. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 1 hour ago, stawns said: It's more than that to me. I've coached enough teams and taught in enough classrooms to know when someone in the mix is toxic and I feel that with this team. The mix between Miller, the established veteran leader, and the young prodigies in Boeser, Elias and Hughes. Don't think Horvat and Pearson are strong enough personalities to keep everyone in line. We lost those when Marky and Tanev left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 This is what Miller would say if he read some of the hot takes in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 2 minutes ago, VancouverHabitant said: The mix between Miller, the established veteran leader, and the young prodigies in Boeser, Elias and Hughes. Don't think Horvat and Pearson are strong enough personalities to keep everyone in line. We lost those when Marky and Tanev left. agree 100%. I think Miller has heavy influence with Petey and Boes especially Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 1 minute ago, bishopshodan said: This is what Miller would say if he read some of the hot takes in this thread. and that's not passion, that's a tantrum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Elias Pettersson Posted October 31, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted October 31, 2021 (edited) You can’t tell me Calgary has a better team than us. Sorry no way. Not on any planet. Gudbranson looking like a legit top 4 D under Sutter. They have several goons on their team and are still able to penalty kill with no problem. Markstrom looking like the second coming of Patrick Roy. Even little Johnny is contributing. Every time Mangiapane scores I get hungry. The personnel is the same as last year so what gives? There is only one difference with Calgary from last year to this year. The coach. Sutter is getting everything he can from that team. If Sutter was coaching the Canucks right now and Green was coaching Calgary the results would be the exact opposite for both teams. Looking at the two rosters I don’t think anyone can make an argument otherwise. Edited October 31, 2021 by Elias Pettersson 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 Just now, stawns said: and that's not passion, that's a tantrum He's known for his emotion. So happy we have him. Passion and wide skill set. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crabcakes Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 (edited) The sheer number of additions since last year tells me that something was holding Benning back from making some of the deals that he wanted to in recent years. Bieksa said last night that when so many changes are made, a team struggles with it's identity. Kept from the beginning of last season: (12) (9) Boeser, Miller, Hughes, Horvat, Hoglander, Myers, Pearson, Pettersson, Demko ......not with the team.....Hamonic, Motte, Sutter In: (13) Garland, OEL, Chaisson, Dowling, Podkolzin, Schenn, Poolman, Dickinson, Lammikko, Rathbone, Burroughs, Hunt, Halak Out: (20) Schmidt, Benn, Edler, Gaudette, Virtanen, Hawryluk, Beagle, Graovac, Roussel, Juolevi, Vessey, Boyd, MacEwen, Chatfield, Player Name, Rafferty, Michaelis, Lind, Gadjovich, Holtby I think that there is no way that a team with so many changes is going to play cohesively in a short time. This season will have a rough start and if Bennings moves pay off, it will be after Christmas before they show consistency. And make no mistake, not all of these additions are going to be keepers so there will be a hand full of changes next year as well. What ever people think of the coaching staff, are we really going to see changes until at least mid season when ownership does a full review with Benning? I think not. It's not fair to Green and it's not fair to bring in a new coach to deal with this mess. Edited October 31, 2021 by Crabcakes forgot goalies 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 Just now, bishopshodan said: He's known for his emotion. So happy we have him. Passion and wide skill set. do you think he's considred part of the core? Do you see him re-signing in Van when this contract is up? I've had many teammates that do that same thing and not one other player on the team thinks it's a positive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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