ShawnAntoski Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 9 hours ago, NHL97OneTimer said: The problem is not the personnel. It's that they're not working as a unit. Passing's off because they seem to have to pass through other players too much. There's little support for the puck. Guys are going into the offensive end alone. Guys are standing still receiving passes. This team looks so completely disjointed. Seeing this, I'm expecting Green's time is coming up. Yeah, the offseason job JB did created a much deeper roster and all your points I agree with: too much individual play to create offense and no real plan when attacking; atleast, on a positive note the D & goaltending are performing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 Now in Miller's defense: Is he a center A winger winger that takes draws or a center that plays wing. Ohh is he a left winger or a right winger.? The only spots I haven't seen him in are defense and goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekker Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 I see JT's days numbered as I think Pods will claim his job eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewbieCanuckFan Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 Just now, gurn said: Now in Miller's defense: Is he a center A winger winger that takes draws or a center that plays wing. Ohh is he a left winger or a right winger.? The only spots I haven't seen him in are defense and goal. Might be a better coach than Travs Green. . . . . . (it's a joke people ) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darius Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 (edited) I get the sense that patience is wearing thin amongst the fan base. In previous years I was willing to wait it out knowing that we have upcoming prospects in the system and multiple place holder players that will be replaced with younger better players (think mdz, gagner, pouliot etc). The core is in place now. During the past few seasons Benning has traded organizational capital in the form of high draft picks and prospects to bolster the core because this is "the team" more or less. This is the hand he is going in with. We should bloody well expect more than "oh its great that they hung in there with a good oiler team" Yet here we are again floundering. The following is an eye opening table. How much more losing will we have to endure? I think this is why you see / hear fed up fans no matter where you look (all internet forums, the radio etc) The teams with the lowest number of out right wins since 2015. Remove the two expansion teams.... Edit: actually pay attention to the expansion teams. Vegas is about to over take the Canucks, and they have played hundred something less games during the time span. Edited October 31, 2021 by Darius 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 2 minutes ago, stawns said: And for all the line juggling that TG does, you never see Miller on Bo's line So you actually think Green is like 'oh those two don't get a long, so I wont force them together. Even if it might be to the detriment of the team' Really? in pro sports? come on. Just now, stawns said: I wouldn't want Miller on my team. I wouldn't hire you as the Canucks Gm or Coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48MPHSlapShot Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, -DLC- said: In Green's defense, I was also thinking that. It's the stuff we don't see that a coach does. The attitude, work ethic, maturity, character flaws. Seems he nailed this one. Indeed. I'm on the "can Green" bandwagon as much as anyone, but when one player is by all accounts the nicest guy in the world and the other player is out of the league because of sexual assault allegations.....yeah. Hindsight has shown us that any favoritism there was definitely warranted. Edited October 31, 2021 by 48MPHSlapShot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnAntoski Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, stawns said: Of course, but that doesn't mean that's how they're supposed to be playing. To me, it's more lack of execution than a system So more roster tweaking ? Imo, the lack of execution can be attributed to the constant roster turnover and the line blender that Green employs - which doesn't help create any chemistry among the players; and outside of Pearson with Bo, it has really been a smorgasbord of line juggling. Preferably, in the next few games, I hope Green would stop with the line blender and allow the players to work out the kinks with a more constant set of linemates - since (as you stated) the issue (more so) are the players not executing or buying in. Edited October 31, 2021 by ShawnAntoski 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 2 minutes ago, bishopshodan said: So you actually think Green is like 'oh those two don't get a long, so I wont force them together. Even if it might be to the detriment of the team' Really? in pro sports? come on. I wouldn't hire you as the Canucks Gm or Coach. You think there aren't player conflicts in pro sports? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballisticsports. Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 I have no doubt the Canucks record will improve, I have seen this enough times to see, but if it is another out of the playoffs and then start winning to get meaningless wins at the end of the season in a deep draft, that is something that never impressed me. The score in the losses flatter the Canucks, if not for the posts and missed tip ins and average goaltending it would have been blow out losses I don't like the, We had a turn over of players excuse, Big deal VGK didn't need that excuse with no core players even Our new players are outplaying the core ironically If we could reset and count our record in the next 10 games, i think that is what we can expect for the rest of the season with no changes made 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewbieCanuckFan Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 (edited) ... Edited October 31, 2021 by NewbieCanuckFan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnAntoski Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 3 minutes ago, Darius said: I get the sense that patience is wearing thin amongst the fan base. In previous years I was willing to wait it out knowing that we have upcoming prospects in the system and multiple place holder players that will be replaced with younger better players (think mdz, gagner, pouliot etc). The core is in place now. During the past few seasons Benning has traded organizational capital in the form of high draft picks and prospects to bolster the core because this is "the team" more or less. This is the hand he is going in with. We should bloody well expect more than "oh its great that they hung in there with a good oiler team" Yet here we are again floundering. The following is an eye opening table. How much more losing will we have to endure? I think this is why you see / hear fed up fans no matter where you look (all internet forums, the radio etc) The teams with the lowest number of out right wins since 2015. Remove the two expansion teams.... Good context and if you remove the expansion teams - only the Canucks have not chosen in the top3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-DLC- Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 13 minutes ago, stawns said: You think there aren't player conflicts in pro sports? Do you think all coaches/teachers get a free pass? I've seen some REALLLLLY bad ones - pulled my kid out of hockey based on some of that history. As much as there are conflicts, it's a coach/teacher/leader's job to be able to quell that. To calm the room, to get everyone on board. And, when that doesn't happen a captain will generally step in (although I feel Bo leads by his one ice work and I have no issue with him). Ultimately, that's their issue to sort out if those things are creating a divide. Frustration happens and conflict's often a result of that. We've tried different players. We haven't tried a different coach and it may be time for that. I'm not fully there yet...I feel it's still a bit too early WITH new personnel in place...but that would be my next move if the team continues to struggle. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 Just now, stawns said: You think there aren't player conflicts in pro sports? Never said that. I suggested that a coach will deploy lines that will help achieve success regardless of any potential personality issues. I don't feel a conflict between these two players, where are you getting this from? is it a guess? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 3 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said: Woah hold on there, ain't no capital punishment in Canada. Reporter" What do you think of your teams execution?" Football coach "I'm in favour of it" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuckfanforlife82 Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 (edited) There is nothing in this current state of the franchise that suggests this is going to be a playoff club this year. You can’t figure things out during the season. Face offs, pk, scoring, chemistry. Those are too many things all at once to try to figure out. They don’t have time. They can’t start the way they have and expect to just flip a switch and it will be good abough to make the playoffs. There has been nothing in this clubs history to have faith they will. It’s more likely based on this teams history they won’t make the playoffs that’s the reality. This team needs a makeover at the top. A new vision. A small, weak team just is not what I think this fanbase wants. I dont know why Benning thought we did. Edited October 31, 2021 by Canuckfanforlife82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48MPHSlapShot Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 (edited) The thing is that, even if a system is sound, but the current group of players are unable to execute, it's up to the coach to then implement a system that the players are capable of executing. Otherwise you're just trying to force a square peg into a round hole while the losses pile up. If there's a problem in the dressing room that's affecting the team as a whole, the coach has to be able to identify the issue and communicate to the GM that there's a bad egg in the bunch that needs to be removed. Edited October 31, 2021 by 48MPHSlapShot 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 1 minute ago, bishopshodan said: Never said that. I suggested that a coach will deploy lines that will help achieve success regardless of any potential personality issues. I don't feel a conflict between these two players, where are you getting this from? is it a guess? Of course it's speculation, almost everything anyone posts here is speculation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhawk Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, -DLC- said: Here's one thing you've done here that many do > you've automatically put "picks and young players" into a "tradeable assets" category. Picks don't automatically convert to NHL calibre players. In your own words you've stated that it "improves your chances of hitting" but you go on to "you're stuck with a bunch of tradeable assets" and converted them, but it doesn't work that way. We haven't had a whole lot of "high" picks and to accumulate them you have to have something to trade FOR to acquire them. No one was picking up our players or giving us picks for them. We had a team that was aging out but had been good enough NOT to give us high picks. The cap strapped part, yes. The contracts that were given out created real problems for us and I can't argue that. But we didn't really trade young players "at will". Be specific in that and name names because that's a generalized statement that isn't really true. Some of the young players we traded for weren't fitting in here at the time. I can't argue that there haven't been mistakes made, but this idea that you just "gather" a bunch of picks (from where?) and those picks give you "tradeable assets" misses the mark a bit. There are many more picks that don't pan out than end up being home runs and improving your chances takes years to figure out because it's not an instant hit or miss. You invest time and energy in these picks and that's time lost with some of the ones you DO have in place. You have to allow them to have a chance to flourish...not put them on the back burner while you "accumulate" more. You see what you've got in the young players/picks and sometimes they look great UNTIL you slide them into an NHL roster where they suddenly look lost. Good post and fair enough DLC. I apologize for some of the rudeness in my post, I was a bit emotional last night not just because of the losses piling up but because of other life circumstances as well. Losing Toffoli, Markstrom and Tanev was huge, but Tanev especially for years was a trade chip we had to improve the future of the team but we kept him in hopes of playoff success that never really came and then he walked away for nothing. Sure we didn't have many studs to exchange for picks but we also weren't really in position to always be throwing picks into deals that was never going to put us over the top like in the said Toffoli deal. Deals like Gagner for 3 years at an overpaid price were just dumb, he did nothing for us and we got nothing for him, Benning needed to find better value to flip at a later date. Hamhuis walked, Richardson walked, Tanev and Markstrom walked, Mathias walked and then signed as a free agent and was flipped the following year etc At the end of the day, 7-8 years with Benning during a retooling phase you would think our team would have accumulated at least a few more draft picks than we gave away but I think right now it's dead even at the average number of picks we are given at 7 per year (8x7) Just using comparables from any team basically in history who goes into a phase like this, they accumulate young assets as much as possible by jettisoning older expiring contracts, signing one or two year free agents to then flip which we sometimes did but not nearly enough, weaponizing open cap space etc. Any team retooling will have more than average amount of picks during the phase but why not us? We rushed prospects out the door trying to improve the club and the facts speak for themselves we lost a lot of these deals. Even small insignificant trades add up, using hindsight we often were on the side that threw in something extra for no good reason. Yes hindsight is easy I don't want to go through them all but 3rd for Pedan, Forsling for Clendenning, 2nds for Vey and Baertschi, Bonino 2nd for Sutter 3rd, McCann 2nd 4th for Gudbranson 5th, 3rd 4th for Pouliot, Madden, 2nd, 4th for Toffoli and a Virtanen resigning Lind + Gadjovich (two 2nds) gone for nothing MacEwan gone for nothing 1st + for Miller looks good on paper but were we ready? and Miller's attitude stinks imo These are all losses. That's a lot Smaller deals too. Seeing Kassian last night irked me. He had issues but so did an overpaid Prust and we still threw in a 5th in that deal. Jensen was as good as Etem but we through in a 6th 5th for Larsen why were we tight against the cap every year, often having just 6 or 7 picks in a draft apparently remaining competitive but have tied for the 3rd worst winning percentage in the last 6-7 seasons? Why didn't we weaponize a single dollar during this time? Why was Benning trying to trade for P.K Subban? Why did we luck out in 2018 for Quinny Bear and where would we be if that had not happened? It's not looking good right now in year 8 and the cupboards are very bare. Edited October 31, 2021 by Warhawk 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbbyNux Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 28 minutes ago, gurn said: That presumes the problem was here, before those changes. It maybe the G.M. has brought the problem in, during the rebuild. 100%. I believe you need to gut it all to make sure there are no residual leftovers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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