Coaching Staff

[ABNucksfan]

Cdc is becoming pathetic… coaches aren’t part of the roster. Wrong section. If they are trying to silence the fans who think Green has had his opportunity and needs to be put out to pasture just come out and say it already… 

[singing chef]

4 hours ago, Mo Grit said:

Bennings earliest mantra was to bring up our prospects in a "winning environmnet".

 

Anyone remember this?

Just look at his winning percentage in the above post.

Should be in a manual describing 'failure'.

 

 

 

 

 

Tough to argue against this..........

[Gurn]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Gillis took over a team that the year prior finished first in the division with 105 points.  So keeping the core together was a no brainer.  The team had become stagnant after Burke left and Nonis wasn't really made to be a GM, he was basically a good wingman.  I don't think Nonis has ever run a team since and never will. 

 

Gillis basically took Burke and Nonis core and then went out and traded away our future to try and win a cup.  It failed so he was fired too.

On January 9, 2013, Nonis was named general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs after Burke was relieved of his duties.^[4] Under Nonis, the Maple Leafs made the 2013 playoffs for the first time since 2004. However, after two disappointing seasons, Nonis was relieved of his duties on April 12, 2015, one day after the 2014-15 regular season ended, along with head coach Peter Horachek, assistant coaches Steve Spott and Chris Denis, and goaltending coach Rick St. Croix.^[5]

[Pears]

2 hours ago, AV. said:

The captain of this hockey team lol

 

2 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Horvat?

Exactly my point. And he had to trade Schneider to get him who at the time was looking like a franchise calibre goaltender. 

[Dazzle]

2 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said:

That’s a lame excuse. He had lots of options. Benning was $&!#ty at drafting early on too.

The lame excuse is ignoring what Gillis did throughout his tenure - or rather, what he didn't do. He sold out the future for the present. So, yes, the Canucks were one game from winning the Stanley Cup. But at the same time, he could not draft a single worthy roster player, minus two of his HIGH first rounders, and Ben freaking Hutton.

 

All of his picks - from first rounders (when he did have one, like Brendan Gaunce) to his late rounders - did not help with the depth of the team. We were left taking on some players like Megna and Chaput. There was nothing to build off of. Not even a goalie. Remember that Schneider was traded away so that Luongo could be the starter.

Complete mismanagement.

 

Benning didn't actually have a lot of options. Kesler was not worth as much as he could've fetched, given the circumstances of how he demanded a trade (plus the two team trade list he had). Also, given the fact that the Canucks did not have any worthy roster players, the Canucks could not effectively 'rebuild' in the same way that the Coyotes did this off season.

 

Gillis did a lot of damage to this team, in spite of his strong season teams he helped build.

[Dazzle]

3 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Ummm the media regularly reports on coaching searches and how comprehensive (or not) they are. 
 

When was the last time anyone other than the first guy reported as being considered for a canucks job was hired or even reported on?

 

The Canucks are famous under Benning for not actually doing comprehensive searches for coaches or front office staff. 

Hard to argue against this particular point. The Canucks' failing to find a proper coach is on Benning there. He really might have had a mulligan if this team exploded this season. Instead, everyone might get fired and the assets might get offloaded for a rebuild, if this losing keeps going on for years.

[AV.]

1 minute ago, Pears said:

 

Exactly my point. And he had to trade Schneider to get him who at the time was looking like a franchise calibre goaltender. 

Lol, well, if you're gonna shift the goal posts and imply that acquiring a top 10 pick/picking top 10 doesn't count, there's also been other NHLers like Hodgson, Schroeder, Connauton, and Hutton who have all seen decent time in the NHL.

[Dazzle]

4 hours ago, Mo Grit said:

 

Travis Green's winning percentage as NHL coach

 

				Regular Season								Playoffs
Season	Age	Tm	Lg	GP	W	L	T	OL	PTS	PTS%	Finish	G	W	L	T	W-L%	Notes
Career			NHL	298	128	137		33	289	.485		17	10	7		.588
2017-18	47	VAN	NHL	82	31	40		11	73	.445	7th	0	0	0
2018-19	48	VAN	NHL	82	35	36		11	81	.494	5th	0	0	0
2019-20	49	VAN	NHL	69	36	27		6	78	.565	4th	17	10	7		.588
2020-21	50	VAN	NHL	56	23	29		4	50	.446	7th	0	0	0
2021-22	51	VAN	NHL	9	3	5		1	7	.389	5th	0	0	0

 

Not sure why there's any debate about if we should "wait for this" or "wait for that".

They should both resign, be thankful for their opportunity.

Do it for us fans.

 

WD's record.

 

 

And WD had terrible rosters.

 

Both WD and Green are awful.

[Dazzle]

5 minutes ago, AV. said:

Lol, well, if you're gonna shift the goal posts and imply that acquiring a top 10 pick/picking top 10 doesn't count, there's also been other NHLers like Hodgson, Schroeder, Connauton, and Hutton who have all seen decent time in the NHL.

How many other picks did Gillis actually hit on besides that? Hodgson was a high first round pick. Schroeder was basically a failed version of Brock Boeser. Connauton never played for the Canucks at all. And Hutton was a decent pick.

 

But who else did Gillis draft? What about goalies?

 

You're telling me that Gillis throughout his tenure never drafted a goalie, or at least one that made an impact? AND he traded the ONLY goalie asset he had for an unknown HIGH first rounder (Horvat)?

 

Terrible mismanagement of assets.

Edited November 1, 2021 by Dazzle

[wallstreetamigo]

2 hours ago, King Heffy said:

Gillis managed to get lucky with a core put together by Burke and Nonis, and then destroy it so badly he crippled the franchise for nearly a decade.  Benning has done a fine job trying to negate the damage that moron caused to the team; we are finally almost free of the last of the fallout from Gillis.

Let’s not revise history too much. Gillis sucked at drafting but he was far from riding the core he inherited to some lucky streak. 

To the core, he added Dan Hamhuis and Christian Ehrhoff, two top pairing quality dmen. Hamhuis helped reinvent Kevin Bieksa into a top quality shutdown D. Ehrhoff pairing with Edler was the perfect complement to help the Sedins take the next step in their offensive game. 

 

Malhotra, Higgins, Lapierre, which completely revamped the bottom 6 around the core. That bottom 6 along with Torres and Hansen was a clear difference making group in those successful years.

 

Drafted Horvat. Hutton too actually.

 

Gillis got a good core but he did what Benning has completely failed at doing. Surround the core with capable difference makers.

 

Unless you think Highmore, Sutter, Motte, Chiasson, etc are even close to comparable, which they clearly aren’t.

 

The time to blame Gillis ended a long time ago. 

[Elias Pettersson]

24 minutes ago, gurn said:

On January 9, 2013, Nonis was named general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs after Burke was relieved of his duties.^[4] Under Nonis, the Maple Leafs made the 2013 playoffs for the first time since 2004. However, after two disappointing seasons, Nonis was relieved of his duties on April 12, 2015, one day after the 2014-15 regular season ended, along with head coach Peter Horachek, assistant coaches Steve Spott and Chris Denis, and goaltending coach Rick St. Croix.^[5]

Being a GM of the Maple Leafs doesn't really count on your resume...  

[AV.]

Lol what is this revisionist history?

I can count on, like, one hand the amount of picks Gillis traded.  A 2nd and 3rd for S.Bernier, a 1st for Ballard, a pair of 3rds for Lapierre/Higgins, pair of 4ths (one of which we got from NYI for Ehrhoff's rights) for Pahlsson, 2nd and Connauton for Roy.  Maybe a 7th or something for Labarbera.  All over the space of 6 years.  He didn't do a good job of drafting - and that's where the team suffered greatly - but he never mortgaged any future through reckless trading.  Of course, that's just another hit narrative being pushed from the Benning hive's version of Donald Trump lmfao.

On that note, pretty sure Benning exceeded this tally alone in his first season when he chucked 2nds and 3rds like no tomorrow for Dorsett, Vey, Pedan, Baertschi, Sutter, etc.  He must be among the league's highest out of all GMs when it has come to moving/throwing in picks. We can respect the idea behind some of those moves but the end product and execution, one way or another, is why we're having this conversation in 2021.

[wallstreetamigo]

25 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

The lame excuse is ignoring what Gillis did throughout his tenure - or rather, what he didn't do. He sold out the future for the present. So, yes, the Canucks were one game from winning the Stanley Cup. But at the same time, he could not draft a single worthy roster player, minus two of his HIGH first rounders, and Ben freaking Hutton.

 

All of his picks - from first rounders (when he did have one, like Brendan Gaunce) to his late rounders - did not help with the depth of the team. We were left taking on some players like Megna and Chaput. There was nothing to build off of. Not even a goalie. Remember that Schneider was traded away so that Luongo could be the starter.

Complete mismanagement.

 

Benning didn't actually have a lot of options. Kesler was not worth as much as he could've fetched, given the circumstances of how he demanded a trade (plus the two team trade list he had). Also, given the fact that the Canucks did not have any worthy roster players, the Canucks could not effectively 'rebuild' in the same way that the Coyotes did this off season.

 

Gillis did a lot of damage to this team, in spite of his strong season teams he helped build.

So how has Benning not mortgaged the future for the present? It’s what GM’s do when they start to fear losing their job. He has little to no cap room going forward. He has not produced much of anything from his drafting other than no brainer top picks and a couple of guys in the 2nd round. Most of those great draft wins in later rounds have been jettisoned for next to nothing or overrated vets.
 

The difference is Gillis had a very successful team. Benning has done similar things and still lost in spite of it. 
 

If Benning had not failed so spectacularly at his annual retooling signings and trades, he would not have gotten the accidental rebuild assets of EP, Hughes, Podkolzin, etc. He gets credit for drafting high but it is really only because he signed terrible players and coaches and the team sucked for so long as a result.

Edited November 1, 2021 by wallstreetamigo

[Pears]

1 minute ago, wallstreetamigo said:

So how has Benning not mortgaged the future for the present? It’s what GM’s do when they start to fear losing their job. He has little to no cap room going forward. He has not produced much of anything from his drafting other than no brainer top picks and a couple of guys in the 2nd round. Most of those great draft wins in later rounds have been jettisoned for next to nothing or overrated vets.
 

The difference is Gillis had a very successful team. Benning has done similar things and still lost in spite of it. 
 

If Benning had not failed so spectacularly at his annual rebuilding signings and trades, he would not have gotten the accidental rebuild assets of EP, Hughes, Podkolzin, etc. He gets credit for drafting high but it is really only because he signed terrible players and coaches and the team sucked for so long as a result.

The other difference you failed to mention, Gillis inherited a core that just needed a tweak here and there to be able to take that next step, which he did. Benning came in to an aging core where he had next to nothing to work with. 

[Dazzle]

3 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

So how has Benning not mortgaged the future for the present? It’s what GM’s do when they start to fear losing their job. He has little to no cap room going forward. He has not produced much of anything from his drafting other than no brainer top picks and a couple of guys in the 2nd round. Most of those great draft wins in later rounds have been jettisoned for next to nothing or overrated vets.
 

The difference is Gillis had a very successful team. Benning has done similar things and still lost in spite of it. 
 

If Benning had not failed so spectacularly at his annual retooling signings and trades, he would not have gotten the accidental rebuild assets of EP, Hughes, Podkolzin, etc. He gets credit for drafting high but it is really only because he signed terrible players and coaches and the team sucked for so long as a result.

Because with the first round picks he's had, he has hit with many of them - Brock Boeser, Pettersson and Hughes. If we were to ignore the first round picks, Benning has outdrafted Gillis significantly. Therefore your argument of 'mortgaging the future' is weak, especially when Gillis is by far the bigger offender.

 

Gillis had a successful team - which consisted of his core from his predecessors. Did Gillis' picks ever pan out on the Canucks, or hell, even the NHL? Few. We had Hodgson, Horvat, and Hutton.

 

That's a lot of missed picks. A lot of them. And because of this poor prospect pool, he left Benning with this bag of nothing. Blaming Benning for his failures SHOULD include what Gillis left him with. There's really not much.

 

Considering Gillis only had a few good seasons under his name, Gillis paid a heavy price, at the Canucks expense.

[AV.]

Just now, Pears said:

The other difference you failed to mention, Gillis inherited a core that just needed a tweak here and there to be able to take that next step, which he did. Benning came in to an aging core where he had next to nothing to work with. 

I wouldn't classify adding players like Demitra, Sundin in first season and then Samuelsson, Ehrhoff, Hamhuis, Malholtra, etc. as tweaks.  Especially not so when the team inherited had missed the playoffs two times in three seasons under Nonis - the supposed genius behind this core.

[Dazzle]

13 minutes ago, AV. said:

I wouldn't classify adding players like Demitra, Sundin in first season and then Samuelsson, Ehrhoff, Hamhuis, Malholtra, etc. as tweaks.  Especially not so when the team inherited had missed the playoffs two times in three seasons under Nonis - the supposed genius behind this core.

Nonis was no genius, but considering that Gillis' core players were also from Burke + Nonis, it is rather dishonest to ignore the contributions of Burke and Nonis.

 

Edler survived all three of these GMs, and yet Gillis did not produce a single defenseman to replace Edler, nor did Gillis draft an NHL worthy goaltender. All we see with Gillis is that he bleeds assets.

 

Let's not give Gillis too much credit. He had some good picks, but he had a tremendous amount of 'busts' too. He gave way too many NTCs for starters, some of which ended up tying up Gillis, in the same way that Benning handcuffed himself in some transactions.

Edited November 1, 2021 by Dazzle

[wallstreetamigo]

11 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

Because with the first round picks he's had, he has hit with many of them - Brock Boeser, Pettersson and Hughes. If we were to ignore the first round picks, Benning has outdrafted Gillis significantly. Therefore your argument of 'mortgaging the future' is weak, especially when Gillis is by far the bigger offender.

 

Gillis had a successful team - which consisted of his core from his predecessors. Did Gillis' picks ever pan out on the Canucks, or hell, even the NHL? Few. We had Hodgson, Horvat, and Hutton.

 

That's a lot of missed picks. A lot of them. And because of this poor prospect pool, he left Benning with this bag of nothing. Blaming Benning for his failures SHOULD include what Gillis left him with. There's really not much.

 

Considering Gillis only had a few good seasons under his name, Gillis paid a heavy price, at the Canucks expense.

I don’t think you understand what “mortgaging the future” means. Gillis was $&!#ty at drafting which certainly hurt the future but he didn’t trade a lot of high picks for right now help. He didn’t purposely sacrifice the future for the present very much at all considering he had a top team and they are usually the ones who do so.

 

Gillis had several good seasons. Benning has had none. Not sure that’s a comparison to make to pump up Benning.

 

Benning, despite having a perennial bottom feeder, has traded far more high picks and drafted players for right now help actually. And he doesn’t have the on-ice success to show for it.

 

Benning has had a lot of very high picks. He still botched 2 of them and traded a 3rd (McCann) plus a 2nd and 4th for for Gudbranson and a 5th. That’s a 1st, 2nd, and 4th. That’s mortgaging the future right there.

[wallstreetamigo]

7 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

Nonis was no genius, but considering that Gillis' core players were also from Burke + Nonis, it is rather dishonest to ignore the contributions of Burke and Nonis.

 

Edler survived all three of these GMs, and yet Gillis did not produce a single defenseman to replace Edler, nor did Gillis draft an NHL worthy goaltender. All we see with Gillis is that he bleeds assets.

 

Let's not give Gillis too much credit. He had some good picks, but he had a tremendous amount of 'busts' too. He gave way too many NTCs for starters, some of which ended up tying up Gillis, in the same way that Benning handcuffed himself in some transactions.

Pretty sure last year Benning had more NTC players on the roster than Gillis had at the end. And that was with the two franchise players on ELC contracts even. 2 of Gillis’ were the last two franchise players.

 

The time to blame Gillis for Benning’s failures is long over. 

[wallstreetamigo]

28 minutes ago, Pears said:

The other difference you failed to mention, Gillis inherited a core that just needed a tweak here and there to be able to take that next step, which he did. Benning came in to an aging core where he had next to nothing to work with. 

Samuelson, Hamhuis, Erhoff, Malhotra, Higgins, Lapierre, Torres, Hodgson. At the very least he filled out the roster with clear improvements. Hamhuis and Erhoff were core players for sure and had a massive impact on the core’s overall step forward.