Coaching Staff

[Pears]

22 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

I don’t think you understand what “mortgaging the future” means. Gillis was $&!#ty at drafting which certainly hurt the future but he didn’t trade a lot of high picks for right now help. He didn’t purposely sacrifice the future for the present very much at all considering he had a top team and they are usually the ones who do so.

 

Gillis had several good seasons. Benning has had none. Not sure that’s a comparison to make to pump up Benning.

 

Benning, despite having a perennial bottom feeder, has traded far more high picks and drafted players for right now help actually. And he doesn’t have the on-ice success to show for it.

 

Benning has had a lot of very high picks. He still botched 2 of them and traded a 3rd (McCann) plus a 2nd and 4th for for Gudbranson and a 5th. That’s a 1st, 2nd, and 4th. That’s mortgaging the future right there.

But Michael Grabner and a 1st round pick, effectively 2 1st round picks for Keith Ballard, who ended up on the third pairing after we signed Hamhuis, wasn’t mortgaging the future?

[AV.]

30 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

Nonis was no genius, but considering that Gillis' core players were also from Burke + Nonis, it is rather dishonest to ignore the contributions of Burke and Nonis.

 

Edler survived all three of these GMs, and yet Gillis did not produce a single defenseman to replace Edler, nor did Gillis draft an NHL worthy goaltender. All we see with Gillis is that he bleeds assets.

 

Let's not give Gillis too much credit. He had some good picks, but he had a tremendous amount of 'busts' too. He gave way too many NTCs for starters, some of which ended up tying up Gillis, in the same way that Benning handcuffed himself in some transactions.

Ehh, not really pumping or deflating tires here.  I'm just dispelling this false narrative that Gillis was some sort of Julien BriseBois where all he had to really do was add a Coleman or Goodrow type player to the team.  As I pointed out, Gillis added many vets and depth players at important positions over the course of his first few years.  He also did a lot of work behind the scenes with sleep/fitness/etc to improve performance. 

Yes, pieces were in place from Burke and Nonis but they were just that: pieces.  Beyond Luongo and the Sedins (who, let's be honest, were borderline PPG players with 1 year remaining on their contracts when Gillis took over), there was no "core" in place.  Kesler and Burrows looked like bottom-six guys, and while they had positive seasons in 2007/08, they were nowhere near the levels they hit during the Gillis years.  Everybody would be lying if they said they saw Alex Burrows becoming a top six forward or Kesler becoming a 40 goal, Selke winner.  Edler showed promise but was far from proven at just 22.  Bieksa talented but coming off a huge laceration injury. 

 

The real core he took over was Naslund, Morrison, Ohlund, etc - all guys he replaced and phased out almost immediately.  It took more than just tweaking or minor moves to tie the division-winning/PT teams together.  None of this makes Gillis an amazing GM but it more fairly contextualizes the work he actually did as GM here than some have tried to dismiss as the work of his predecessors.

[wallstreetamigo]

11 minutes ago, Pears said:

But Michael Grabner and a 1st round pick, effectively 2 1st round picks for Keith Ballard, who ended up on the third pairing after we signed Hamhuis, wasn’t mortgaging the future?

Strong teams SHOULD mortgage the future at times to get over the hump. But this trade is not really as much mortgaging the future as people suggest for a few reasons.

 

First, it came down to trying to replace a piece to prevent what was looking like would be a pretty weak defense.

 

Second, the Canucks made a decision between 2 younger guys - Grabner and Raymond - and were probably going to lose Grabner on waivers (which Florida ultimately did). The 1st was a late 1st rounder so not nearly the same risk. AV was never going to play Grabner.
 

At the time of the trade though, you have to remember they were not comfortable with Mitchell’s health (hindsight is 20/20 on that but at the time it was a huge risk) and there was no guarantee they were getting Hamhuis. 

Ballard was a top pairing dman. He was not utilized to his strengths at all in Vancouver. Once they got Hamhuis, they essentially tried to make him something he wasn’t. So it didn’t work out.
 

The Ballard trade probably represents a bit of a mortgaging the future but it’s different for a strong team to do so and a bottom feeder to do so. 

[whysoserious]

I don't understand how people can still defend Benning. He's been here for 8 years and has accomplished nothing. 

[Sanford]

Fire these baboons.  Get a proper experienced coaching staff here, if it still fails then cut the head of the Snake (Benning)

[erkayloomeh]

12 hours ago, Odd. said:

Disagree completely.

 

J.T’s frustration and heart cannot be denied. Hes a vocal guy. I’m sorry, bur nobody including our captain is as vocal as him. He gets the guys going, and isn’t afraid to let his teammates know they’re slacking.

 

Coaches absolutely love players like J.T. Yes he can get a little too carried away, however, you look at our team and how crap we’ve been, you can see its really taking a toll on him. He’s hungry, he wants to win. We need more of those players. Not ones like our recently high paid forward who loses the puck and acts like nothing happened at all.

 

J.T Miller is going to be a Canuck for a long time. We need to get our $&!# together and ice a coherent coaching staff that is leading this team astray. 
 

People complain we lack vocal players, and when we do get them, they’re a “lock room problem”. Absolutely not.

Amen. 

That behavior shows he cares and hates to lose.  This is the last player in this team that needs to be traded. 

He is making alot of mistakes though.  Trying to do to much by himself and losing the puck.

He's frustrated like us.  

Leave it to some fans to sh*t on the guy. 

[Odd.]

24 minutes ago, erkayloomeh said:

Amen. 

That behavior shows he cares and hates to lose.  This is the last player in this team that needs to be traded. 

He is making alot of mistakes though.  Trying to do to much by himself and losing the puck.

He's frustrated like us.  

Leave it to some fans to sh*t on the guy. 

He makes mistakes, a lot, but I look past them because of his heart and determination. He loses the puck, he gets visibly upset at himself, and gains composure on his next shift and is ready to go at it again. 
 

I cannot remember a time where we had such a player like that. Kessler was like that when motivated. but J.T really is something else. He’s the gasoline pouring through a couple of misfired cylinders.

[AV.]

6 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Strong teams SHOULD mortgage the future at times to get over the hump. But this trade is not really as much mortgaging the future as people suggest for a few reasons.

 

First, it came down to trying to replace a piece to prevent what was looking like would be a pretty weak defense.

 

Second, the Canucks made a decision between 2 younger guys - Grabner and Raymond - and were probably going to lose Grabner on waivers (which Florida ultimately did). The 1st was a late 1st rounder so not nearly the same risk. AV was never going to play Grabner.
 

At the time of the trade though, you have to remember they were not comfortable with Mitchell’s health (hindsight is 20/20 on that but at the time it was a huge risk) and there was no guarantee they were getting Hamhuis. 

Ballard was a top pairing dman. He was not utilized to his strengths at all in Vancouver. Once they got Hamhuis, they essentially tried to make him something he wasn’t. So it didn’t work out.
 

The Ballard trade probably represents a bit of a mortgaging the future but it’s different for a strong team to do so and a bottom feeder to do so. 

This is the correct take.  People seem to forget (or conveniently overlook) that Mitchell suffered a season-ending concussion and was out of contract, Salo had suffered his 39th pro injury during the playoffs (and later his 40th when he injured himself in hockey over the summer), Bieksa had his 2nd laceration injury during the 2009/10 season (was also the subject of big trade rumours at that time), etc.  Maybe the idea of an AHL-tier defence is normalized for Canucks fans in 2021 because of some of the guys we've played and continue to play in the Benning era, but no way we were going into the 2010/11 season with Edler and Ehrhoff as the mainstays with question marks in Bieksa, Salo, Mitchell, and O'Brien (didn't end up making our team).

The Ballard trade didn't work out but for what we gave up in the 25th OVR (Quinton Howden), Steve Bernier (the OG Chiasson), and Michael Grabner (was never gonna play with Raymond in the team), it was hardly mortgaging the future.

[Warhawk]

12 hours ago, Odd. said:

Disagree completely.

 

 

Coaches absolutely love players like J.T. 

 

A.V publically critiziced him and then he was traded. 

 

He played on a third line in Tampa then was traded  

 

His antics are demoralizing, a losing team doesn't want a player yelling f-bombs on the bench at the top of his lungs, it's bad for morale.  

[combover]

8 hours ago, Pears said:

The other difference you failed to mention, Gillis inherited a core that just needed a tweak here and there to be able to take that next step, which he did. Benning came in to an aging core where he had next to nothing to work with. 

Benning had the option to do what everyone knew needed doing( including Gillis)  and START REBUILDING instead he said “ I think there’s a window to win” wrong again and again and again that’s the JB era failures and poor decisions. 
So saying he had nothing to work with is a total pile a Jb excuse crap.

trade the players that have value build through the draft developed The picks  and tough out a few years with b trade players.

he didn’t trade the assets when he had the chance he waited till they had devalued or worse LET  THEM WALK FOR FREE. 
Jb is like his record, crap. 

He’s traded more picks than any Canuck gm and his team is a loser. 
the drafted player development has be crap

the drafting has been average at best and terrible past the second round and asset management has been non existent there is no gm working today that sucked at every aspect of the job that is still employed.

he should have been fired last summer and he could take his terrible coaches with him.
instead we got set back even further and have about as many nhl ready prospects as the day he took over 7 years ago.

yup Gillis mortgaged the future and drafted poorly with his LATE round picks he was also in the real win now mode and we won  everything except a cup. 
Benning is and has been garbage, excuse s excuses  excuses  after failure to deliver on a single thing. 
 

This club needs a fresh start from gm to coaches and they need experienced proven people. No more PR crap or rookies

The biggest issue I see is the Good top notch people won’t work here with FA.

is it just a coincidence since Burke left we’ve had rookies …. I don’t think it is.  

 

 

 

Edited November 1, 2021 by combover

[Odd.]

58 minutes ago, Warhawk said:

 

A.V publically critiziced him and then he was traded. 

 

He played on a third line in Tampa then was traded  

 

His antics are demoralizing, a losing team doesn't want a player yelling f-bombs on the bench at the top of his lungs, it's bad for morale.  

Only weak minded players would have low morale when a teammate is visibly upset of a team that’s underperforming. I don’t see how his “antics” are demoralizing. 
 

He played on the third line on a stacked Tampa team that’s won back to back cups. Also, we acquired Miller, he wasn’t offloaded. Banning even said he didn’t let feelings or

emotions get in the way of acquiring a player like Miller, and that a big reason why Benning brought him over is because of how vocal he is and how you need a good balance of that on a team. Just look at Kane with Chicago, Doughty with L.A, Ovechkin, Benn, Getzlaf, Teravainen, etc. Vocal guys on their team who have and had successful teams.

 
You don’t have to show how upset you are like those guys, but you sure as hell better be upset emotionally when underperforming, and do everything you can to play better. Some players utilize that, others just crack under pressure.

 

[48MPHSlapShot]

Wait, did Benning join the coaching staff?

[johngould21]

19 hours ago, Hamhuis Hip Check said:

This is gonna be a fun thread to watch

As are all of the "fire the coach", "trade so and so" threads.

[Pears]

1 hour ago, combover said:

Benning had the option to do what everyone knew needed doing( including Gillis)  and START REBUILDING instead he said “ I think there’s a window to win” wrong again and again and again that’s the JB era failures and poor decisions. 
So saying he had nothing to work with is a total pile a Jb excuse crap.

trade the players that have value build through the draft developed The picks  and tough out a few years with b trade players.

he didn’t trade the assets when he had the chance he waited till they had devalued or worse LET  THEM WALK FOR FREE. 
Jb is like his record, crap. 

He’s traded more picks than any Canuck gm and his team is a loser. 
the drafted player development has be crap

the drafting has been average at best and terrible past the second round and asset management has been non existent there is no gm working today that sucked at every aspect of the job that is still employed.

he should have been fired last summer and he could take his terrible coaches with him.
instead we got set back even further and have about as many nhl ready prospects as the day he took over 7 years ago.

yup Gillis mortgaged the future and drafted poorly with his LATE round picks he was also in the real win now mode and we won  everything except a cup. 
Benning is and has been garbage, excuse s excuses  excuses  after failure to deliver on a single thing. 
 

This club needs a fresh start from gm to coaches and they need experienced proven people. No more PR crap or rookies

The biggest issue I see is the Good top notch people won’t work here with FA.

is it just a coincidence since Burke left we’ve had rookies …. I don’t think it is.  

 

 

 

Do you really believe Aquilini would have allowed a full blown rebuild especially while the Sedins were still here? I remember a pretty significant rumour at the time that Benning was told to go for it as long as the Sedins were playing at a high level. I will say Gillis saw that the team needed to be torn down but Aquilini wanted no part of that. 

[kanucks25]

Just now, Pears said:

Do you really believe Aquilini would have allowed a full blown rebuild especially while the Sedins were still here? I remember a pretty significant rumour at the time that Benning was told to go for it as long as the Sedins were playing at a high level. I will say Gillis saw that the team needed to be torn down but Aquilini wanted no part of that. 

Aquilini getting into Gillis' business when we were nothing but successful under Gillis was when this franchise took a turn for the worse.

 

He should have been given the opportunity to rebuild.

[combover]

17 minutes ago, Pears said:

Do you really believe Aquilini would have allowed a full blown rebuild especially while the Sedins were still here? I remember a pretty significant rumour at the time that Benning was told to go for it as long as the Sedins were playing at a high level. I will say Gillis saw that the team needed to be torn down but Aquilini wanted no part of that. 

Still the excuse that we had nothing doesn’t  hold water. 
Granted we didn’t have nhl prospects but most teams that spend a decade being one of the leagues best rarely have and abundance prospects. 
 Even Torts who was awful saw this team was done (and he was a FA hire) no surprise he spoke out against trying to “win now”  he was relieved. 

A Gillis interview after he was fired he stated he should have revamped the scouting department and it was his biggest mistake. 

how delarome still has a job is beyond me decades of terrible picks… 

The bold explains why I believe top level GMs won’t work here and why our owners hire rookies who are easy to control. And it’s  the deeper  issue this club has. 
what it doesn’t explain is how Benning let so many good players walk for free right up to tanev and markstrom

 

regardless it’s past time for change and JB had his time and failed to deliver he’s built this team and he’s had two coaches and he hasn’t managed any level of success.

he kept his job because FA loves  a good puppet and Jb hasn’t spoken out.
Burke Gillis torts and linden all got axed after speaking out against ownership “plan” 

Just Another coincidence I guess. 

isn’t it funny so many say ownership isn’t meddling but then point out he wanted no part of an obviously due rebuild. 
 

And blaming the gm from 8 seasons ago is just a desperate attempt to hold onto all the lies and failures of Jim and FA 

 

 

Times up 

excuses are used up 

 

 

we should have started this season with a fresh new group with renewed expectations and hope instead it’s the same old same old recycled quotes for failing. 

 

 

 

[MaxVerstappen33]

Did I just hear that right ? Per the post game show , Travis Green is getting paid 5.5 million for 2 years ?

[Warhawk]

4 hours ago, Odd. said:

He makes mistakes, a lot, but I look past them because of his heart and determination. He loses the puck, he gets visibly upset at himself, and gains composure on his next shift and is ready to go at it again. 
 

I cannot remember a time where we had such a player like that. Kessler was like that when motivated. but J.T really is something else. He’s the gasoline pouring through a couple of misfired cylinders.

He quit last year, most games he didn't even try at all.  He quits on plays all the time if things aren't going his way

[kanucks25]

37 minutes ago, MaxVerstappen33 said:

Did I just hear that right ? Per the post game show , Travis Green is getting paid 5.5 million for 2 years ?

I imagine that's 5.5 over 2 years (2.75 AAV) and even that seems high for Green lol

Edited November 1, 2021 by kanucks25

[PhillipBlunt]

56 minutes ago, MaxVerstappen33 said:

Did I just hear that right ? Per the post game show , Travis Green is getting paid 5.5 million for 2 years ?

Someone is getting ripped off.