Which draft bust hurt us the most ?

[IBatch]

5 hours ago, canuckpuckluck1 said:

Chychrun had the body for it too, he was the one I was hoping the Canucks would take. It was weird as he was freefalling in the draft until the bizarre trade between Detroit and Arizona that saw them move up 4 places and get lumbered with Datsyuks cap hit. Not to forget the few spare parts and picks that moved too. I thought it was a bit of a shock. 

Arizona got what they wanted and he has turned out to be very good.

He was the consensus second overall a year before his draft year maybe even first.    Then just fell.    World Juniors ... i really think too much stock is taken in a short tournament, and mess with the scouts heads a little.    Did for us taking OJ.    His junior stats weren't impressive, his play might have been but points wise ... maybe seeing what he could do with top players bumped him up the board.   Injures didn't help, neither did his apparent aversion to the gym.  "Anyone can go to the gym, you can't teach smarts" .... Salo got him back on track.   It's unfortunate.    Guy could still make it, but this is likely his last chance.  

[IBatch]

3 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Got into a pretty serious car accident & had major shoulder injuries that I suspect shortened his career vs say a guy like Gaunce who didn’t do anything good enough to stick in the NHL.  Not saying Stajanov would’ve been anything more than a bottom six forward but he could skate very well and had size (and was willing to use that size).  In the end, Pat Quinn was able to flip him for Naslund so it turned out great for us in the end.

Drafted 7th overall...Guy was huge and yes he could fight too.  1991.   A year after drafting Antoski lol...the two together weighed a quarter ton and 12'8" ... Quin didn't like puny players.   Neither did Burke who was his right hand man back then.   Even Nedved was 6'3".     That early 90's team was massive.     Stajonov is 48.    Some of those guys we missed on, could have been playing in the league during the peak Sedin era if they had longevity.    Trading him for Naslund of course was a massive steal.     PIT didn't have any room for Naslund .... but they did need big guys given the era.   Antoski in PHI too.  

[NewbieCanuckFan]

12 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Drafted 7th overall...Guy was huge and yes he could fight too.  1991.   A year after drafting Antoski lol...the two together weighed a quarter ton and 12'8" ... Quin didn't like puny players.   Neither did Burke who was his right hand man back then.   Even Nedved was 6'3".     That early 90's team was massive.     Stajonov is 48.    Some of those guys we missed on, could have been playing in the league during the peak Sedin era if they had longevity.    Trading him for Naslund of course was a massive steal.     PIT didn't have any room for Naslund .... but they did need big guys given the era.   Antoski in PHI too.  

I think the reason Quinn chose Nedved over Jagr (other than the fact the Cold War was still on & nobody knew when Jagr would be able to come over) was Nedved playing in the tough WHL league for a season & piling on the points there before being drafted.  It’s not like piling up the points in the Quebec league where it was much more offensive league then.  There would be less of an issue adjusting to the “NHL style”.

Edited November 7, 2021 by NewbieCanuckFan

[MaxVerstappen33]

5 hours ago, DefCon1 said:

If only Benning had a magic ball. We would had Ehlers, Pasta AND Point

Pasta would be like if Niklas Jensen became the best player in his draft. It's your wildest dreams coming true. I'm not knocking anyone for passing on him. But having nothing to show for 5 over all and Virtanen is pain 

[MaxVerstappen33]

There must be a Russian forum for the team Virtanen is on. I'll just use auto translate. Curious what they are saying 

 

I think we should resign him after his conditioning stint in Russia.

Either that or watch the Oilers sign him like they did with kassian 

 

Edited November 7, 2021 by MaxVerstappen33

[MaxVerstappen33]

4 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

The real question is, would Hodgson, Juolevi or Virtanen have been picked if we left them?

 

I think Cody would have, he had high promise and did well in the brief NHL time he got with us.

 

I think Juolevi would have gone down the pecking order but picked around 10-15th.

 

Virtanen, I wonder, would have been left out of the top 10 easily. That was a stacked top 10 with lots of skilled players, many of the guys after him are now scoring at a 60-80 point pace. I think JB just wanted some grit, toughness and couldn't see the lack of skill underneath. The "hometown" special has to go because it's cost us good picks.

 

To be honest though, I think Hodgson was the right pick at the time, we just got unlucky with him and his attitude issues which are impossible to predict, especially given he was such a good leader and character at junior.

 

I defend the Juolevi pick because of the follow-through from the Virtanen pick - we didn't need a tough fast forward like Tkachuck because we were developing Virtanen, and at the time our defensive prospect pool was bare. Then we got unlucky with all of his injuries who nobody could predict.

 

Virtanen was the real mess and for me the only "wrong" pick. I was big on Nylander back then, imagine how different this team would look with him in our top 6. Big mistake and it's cost us.

Flames fans were afraid of us getting Virtanen. They would have taken him with their next pick I'd imagine. Didn't he play over there or something ..

[IBatch]

10 hours ago, MaxVerstappen33 said:

Yeah. Why we went for a high risk D man I'll never know. It made sense roster wise I guess.

We went with the safest pick.  OJ had the highest floor of any D's in that draft, every other D had issues apparently.   Of course that's not what happened.    The draft is a crap shoot, and picks are constantly overrated on this site.   Aside from Milford, we haven't really had a GM that hits on many of their first rounders, and beyond, it's not very often that players are found outside of the 3rd round.   12.5 every 100 drafts to be exact.   So one every 8 years or so on average that plays 100 NHL games.   As far as busts go... JV played i believe around 311 games ... if the seasons weren't cut short he'd have 350 or so, and this season over 400.   That's the "bust" bar for his draft slot.   For first overall's it's 700.   2-3 500.   4-6 400... past 15 200 for the first round.    Second rounders lol...well .25%  make it to 200 games that's it.    

 

Jim Benning appears to have drafted better then everyone but Milford and maybe Burke so far.    And that's not just because of where he's been drafting.   That's because his average draft position is around 10th, but he's drafted like we've drafting 5/6 all along (so far, that could change, early days still, and this is based on quality as well)....He's around plus 4/5 compared to his peers, which puts him in the top ten.    Given that's the medicine we needed, will take it happily.   For a stretch it was like we were drafting 2/3rd (EP/QHs)...MG unfortunately, was a bad drafter.   Horvat, Hodgson and Hutton ... 6 years ouch.   That said Hodgson technically wasn't really a bust either.  

 

Think folks need to get what a bust actually is.   Without JVs sex issues, and glad JB suspended him right away,  his career path was settling down to be one a lot like Torres was.    Is Chris Phillips a bust because he was a first overall who never became a star?  Of course not, played over 1000 games.    Games played is always the first thing to look at.   And with the same lens scouts use.   We won't really know for another five years or so with this current group.   Hope it's enough.   Podz working out sure would be a big step towards that.   So far a lot to like in his game. 

[rekker]

OJ. Take a look at the dmen drafted after OJ playing in the NHL. Painfull. 

[Bure_of_94]

1 hour ago, MaxVerstappen33 said:

There must be a Russian forum for the team Virtanen is on. I'll just use auto translate. Curious what they are saying 

 

I think we should resign him after his conditioning stint in Russia.

Either that or watch the Oilers sign him like they did with kassian 

 

Pretty crazy that Jake is playing with Emil(Elias’ older brother), Shirokov & Lehtera to name a few. 

[MaxVerstappen33]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

We went with the safest pick.  OJ had the highest floor of any D's in that draft, every other D had issues apparently.   Of course that's not what happened.    The draft is a crap shoot, and picks are constantly overrated on this site.   Aside from Milford, we haven't really had a GM that hits on many of their first rounders, and beyond, it's not very often that players are found outside of the 3rd round.   12.5 every 100 drafts to be exact.   So one every 8 years or so on average that plays 100 NHL games.   As far as busts go... JV played i believe around 311 games ... if the seasons weren't cut short he'd have 350 or so, and this season over 400.   That's the "bust" bar for his draft slot.   For first overall's it's 700.   2-3 500.   4-6 400... past 15 200 for the first round.    Second rounders lol...well .25%  make it to 200 games that's it.    

 

Jim Benning appears to have drafted better then everyone but Milford and maybe Burke so far.    And that's not just because of where he's been drafting.   That's because his average draft position is around 10th, but he's drafted like we've drafting 5/6 all along (so far, that could change, early days still, and this is based on quality as well)....He's around plus 4/5 compared to his peers, which puts him in the top ten.    Given that's the medicine we needed, will take it happily.   For a stretch it was like we were drafting 2/3rd (EP/QHs)...MG unfortunately, was a bad drafter.   Horvat, Hodgson and Hutton ... 6 years ouch.   That said Hodgson technically wasn't really a bust either.  

 

Think folks need to get what a bust actually is.   Without JVs sex issues, and glad JB suspended him right away,  his career path was settling down to be one a lot like Torres was.    Is Chris Phillips a bust because he was a first overall who never became a star?  Of course not, played over 1000 games.    Games played is always the first thing to look at.   And with the same lens scouts use.   We won't really know for another five years or so with this current group.   Hope it's enough.   Podz working out sure would be a big step towards that.   So far a lot to like in his game. 

There are 2 kinds of busts. OJ was a level 1 bust. 

 

Hodgson was supposed to be Horvat 1.0. There was even talk about a future captaincy. If Hodgson was supposed to be what Horvat is now then that was a pretty big miss either way. He had serious health problems. Was there any evidence of these problems in his draft year ? But even if there was, it's a very rare thing so I dunno.

 

Codys parents were whining to the team about ice time. That just started everything on the wrong foot. 

 

I agree that Benning has a decent record with his mid range picks. It just really sucks that we got torched with OJ. 

 

Maybe the lesson is NOT to draft for position or anything like that. Just draft strictly on a player's likelihood of making the NHL. Even if you have to take 3 centers or even 3 goalies in a row on the same draft. So that you dont have this disasterous domino effect that we have with OJ and JV.

[IBatch]

19 minutes ago, MaxVerstappen33 said:

There are 2 kinds of busts. OJ was a level 1 bust. 

 

Hodgson was supposed to be Horvat 1.0. There was even talk about a future captaincy. If Hodgson was supposed to be what Horvat is now then that was a pretty big miss either way. He had serious health problems. Was there any evidence of these problems in his draft year ? But even if there was, it's a very rare thing so I dunno.

 

Codys parents were whining to the team about ice time. That just started everything on the wrong foot. 

 

I agree that Benning has a decent record with his mid range picks. It just really sucks that we got torched with OJ. 

 

Maybe the lesson is NOT to draft for position or anything like that. Just draft strictly on a player's likelihood of making the NHL. Even if you have to take 3 centers or even 3 goalies in a row on the same draft. So that you dont have this disasterous domino effect that we have with OJ and JV.

Says who?  You?  Nah.   I'm going with what the scouts determine a bust.   Not sure what these "levels" mean.   Other then just a fan making something up to fit their narrative.   It's not "disasterous" that's just silly.   Didn't we also draft Demko!   Lol.   That alone makes up for JVs draft year.   OJs for sure is a black hole now ... Lind isn't the teams fault, but we could have got something out of it if they didn't waive Gadj.   All the same ... how many NHL games came out of the JV/Demko/McAan draft so far?   One of JB best drafts really. 

 

Edit:  Poor asset management yes.   Absolutely.   McAan is still playing isn't he?  He's far exceeded the "average" player picked at that spot.   Look into it.   Draft picks from around 22/23 ALL the way until the end of the second round, historically have about the same chance of playing 100/200 games.   That is 50% 100 .25% 200.   12.5% an impact player with a longer career.    There are university studies on the draft available to look at.   I'd suggest you do, and other fans who think a first round pick is a star player or a second round pick is a blue chipper.   Seems like that's the expectation anyways.   GMs expect one player per draft and hope for two.   

Edited November 7, 2021 by IBatch

[BPA]

I would say OJ is the bust.  Cuz he only played a handful of NHL games.

 

BUT selecting JV was the biggest mistake.  I remember wanting Nylander in that draft over JV.  If that happens, then maybe Tkachuk gets selected over OJ.

 

But Canucks still would be without a stud D prospect before drafting QH.

[alucard]

Virtanen.

[MaxVerstappen33]

32 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Says who?  You?  Nah.   I'm going with what the scouts determine a bust.   Not sure what these "levels" mean.   Other then just a fan making something up to fit their narrative.   It's not "disasterous" that's just silly.   Didn't we also draft Demko!   Lol.   That alone makes up for JVs draft year.   OJs for sure is a black hole now ... Lind isn't the teams fault, but we could have got something out of it if they didn't waive Gadj.   All the same ... how many NHL games came out of the JV/Demko/McAan draft so far?   One of JB best drafts really. 

 

Edit:  Poor asset management yes.   Absolutely.   McAan is still playing isn't he?  He's far exceeded the "average" player picked at that spot.   Look into it.   Draft picks from around 22/23 ALL the way until the end of the second round, historically have about the same chance of playing 100/200 games.   That is 50% 100 .25% 200.   12.5% an impact player with a longer career.    There are university studies on the draft available to look at.   I'd suggest you do, and other fans who think a first round pick is a star player or a second round pick is a blue chipper.   Seems like that's the expectation anyways.   GMs expect one player per draft and hope for two.   

Says me ? Yeah. Iam trying to make a case on a discussion forum 

 

Hodgson was supposed to be a character guy, future captain and franchise player. And he was traded away and his career fell off a cliff after 2014/15 when he was well under 30 years old.

 

Mccan is still playing. But Grabner played for 12 years and he gets overlooked by this fanbase. Grabner out lasted Mason Raymond and Hodgson. So if we could reverse the clock back to 2011, Michael Grabner would be the player to keep. Even over our shiney new toy, Cody Hodgson

Edited November 7, 2021 by MaxVerstappen33

[D.B Cooper]

12 hours ago, Bure_of_94 said:

Hodgson was a loss but when he started failing we traded him for kassian and Kassian’s addiction issues got the best of him here... so it all played out. 
- Jake never lived up to his potential... character issues and the fanbase/organization didn’t seem to want to part with him, he had some okay seasons. nothing great. It is what it is. 
 

-Joulevi is the biggest bust because he should have never been a top 5 overall pick. He was a benefactor of playing on a London Squad featuring Dvorak, Marner and Tkatchuk. There was much better D-men available at his Spot (Sergachev, Macavoy & Chychrun). This fanbase incredibly defended him as a top 5 pick... true top 5 picks don’t need 5-7 years to develop. What did he have? 12 nhl games maybe on the 3rd pairing. In a league that’s getting younger and faster and 95% of players are done by age 34...... Joulevi is the modern day definition of a bust... and probably the highest drafted player in the last 10 drafts to bust.

Nail Yakupov-1

Griffen Reinhart-4

Michael Del Cole-5

 

There are a couple more I’m sure 

[Toyotasfan]

The Canucks invested a lot of time into Virtanen. Total disconnect with the coach. If only he was traded when he had value.

Joulevi was derailed by injuries, if he was given as much of a chance as Jake, he would be an NHL regular.

[MaxVerstappen33]

4 minutes ago, D.B Cooper said:

Nail Yakupov-1

Griffen Reinhart-4

Michael Del Cole-5

 

There are a couple more I’m sure 

That's a couple good examples of bonafide busts at #4 and #5 over all. Reinhart was from N. Van.

 

IMO Nail Yakupov could have worked out if a team like us drafted and developed him. He was just chewed up and damaged by the Mctavish/ Eakins Oilers. One of the worst managed teams in history.

 

 

 

 

[D.B Cooper]

4 minutes ago, MaxVerstappen33 said:

That's a couple good examples of bonafide busts at #4 and #5 over all. Reinhart was from N. Van.

 

IMO Nail Yakupov could have worked out if a team like us drafted and developed him. He was just chewed up and damaged by the Mctavish/ Eakins Oilers. One of the worst managed teams in history.

 

 

 

 

He was only good in Jr.   He isn’t even great in the KHL.  
3 NHL teams too.   I don’t think it was Edmonton’s fault entirely.  
They guy was only good against kids.  
Bust

[MaxVerstappen33]

7 minutes ago, D.B Cooper said:

He was only good in Jr.   He isn’t even great in the KHL.  
3 NHL teams too.   I don’t think it was Edmonton’s fault entirely.  
They guy was only good against kids.  
Bust

Its funny. I was living in Edmonton at the time. The Oilers management was planning to move down in the draft and ownership intervened to take Yak.

 

He played for eight different head coaches during his 6 NHL seasons.

[guntrix]

There’s a lot of people pointing towards the missed drafts between 2007-2012 but IMO missing on late 1st round picks like Jensen, Schroeder and Gaunce isn’t nearly as bad as missing on high draft picks. 
 

This thread really only has two answers: Juolevi and Virtanen. Seeing how posters have made solid arguments for both players, I don’t think I could disagree with putting either of these guys as worst draft bust.