Alflives Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 15 minutes ago, Mustard Tiger said: I mean even my 7 year old nephew can figure out selling off a guy who is 30, signed for 3+m on a multi year deal.. who only showed up for half the season for a guy that bring the same amount of impact yet for only 1.5m and 25 yo is infact moving money out while making the team younger. Do I like the move? Meh I'm not fan of dermott.. but it is a little move that accomplished what they said they want to start doing Why not keep the third, use it to draft and develop a prospect, and have Hunt can play that (Dermott) role for 800 k. We save even more, and keep our pick. That is building for the future. What we did is the follow same direction as Benning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 4 minutes ago, DeNiro said: Poof we’ve got 30 goals to replace and a top 4 D man to acquire. Any cap space we clear up like that will need to be used to replace those guys. Yup. And in JR’s recent interview he said he doesn’t want to take a step back. He wants to change the roster while moving forward. Any players we bring in will be 23-27. Any picks we get will be used to bring in guys 23-27. JR is (now) not taking a step back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 3 minutes ago, Alflives said: Yup. And in JR’s recent interview he said he doesn’t want to take a step back. He wants to change the roster while moving forward. Any players we bring in will be 23-27. Any picks we get will be used to bring in guys 23-27. JR is (now) not taking a step back. Yep. Im thinking he makes moves like Garland for someone like Zacha rather than the big Miller or Boeser deal. Trade Myers for picks and then sign a stay at home guy in the 4-5 mil range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 29 minutes ago, DeNiro said: Poof we’ve got 30 goals to replace and a top 4 D man to acquire. Any cap space we clear up like that will need to be used to replace those guys. Well, a guy like Hague would "replace" one of those guys. For cheaper, while also getting younger. Pretty much exactly what we're going to be aiming to do and exactly what people are talking about here. So no, "any cap cleared" won't be used to replace them. "Some" cap, yes. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustard Tiger Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 36 minutes ago, Alflives said: Why not keep the third, use it to draft and develop a prospect, and have Hunt can play that (Dermott) role for 800 k. We save even more, and keep our pick. That is building for the future. What we did is the follow same direction as Benning. Lol, Dermott is a #6. Hunt is a number 10. How do you convice guys to re sign team friendly deals with you value 3rds more than who you have on the ice during a playoff push Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NucknAsia Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 (edited) 51 minutes ago, DeNiro said: Yep. Im thinking he makes moves like Garland for someone like Zacha rather than the big Miller or Boeser deal. Trade Myers for picks and then sign a stay at home guy in the 4-5 mil range. You hit on an interesting idea. Garland for Zacha but I also see NJ as a perfect match for Miller. Perhaps its a bigger deal? They have alot of young talent, they need vets, they want to start making the playoffs with their young group and Miller would be a great leader for them. Miller Garland Vancouver 15th overall Myers Rathbone (that would hurt from an competitiveness perspective for us...lose alot of intensity so I'm not sure I like as I write it down haha) For NJ 2nd overall (Which they said they are open to moving) (Draft a top RD) NJ 1st round 2023 Zacha - Solves 3c issues Shakir Mukamadullin - Brings us size for the bottom LD pairing over Rathbone Severson - Have to give to get vs just prospects So really its: Severson, Sahkir, and 2nd overall - for Miller and our 15th overall Garland, Myers and Rathbone for Zacha and next years first rounder Not sure of the cap issues but that brings a heck of alot of punch to NJ to make the playoffs. For us, it solves our 3c Issue - Zacha Brings in a future top RD in our second overall pick Severson vs Myers, upgrade Rathbone vs Shakir - Love rathbone - rather have Shakir's size on our bottom or 2nd LD when its time plus futures (another first rounder in a deep draft 2023 Losing Garland hurts but assuming Brock can find his game again, and Podz can take the next step he won't be overly missed. Younger, bigger, faster Edited May 28, 2022 by NucknAsia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_314 Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 2 minutes ago, NucknAsia said: You hit on an interesting idea. Garland for Zacha but I also see NJ as a perfect match for Miller. Perhaps its a bigger deal? They have alot of young talent, they need vets, they want to start making the playoffs with their young group and Miller would be a great leader for them. Miller Garland Vancouver 15th overall Myers Rathbone (that would hurt from an competitiveness perspective for us...lose alot of intensity so I'm not sure I like as I write it down haha) For NJ 2nd overall (Which they said they are open to moving) (Draft a top RD) NJ 1st round 2023 Zacha - Solves 3c issues Shakir Mukamadullin - Brings us size for the bottom LD pairing over Rathbone Severson - Have to give to get vs just prospects So really its: Severson, Sahkir, and 2nd overall - for Miller and our 15th overall Garland, Myers and Rathbone for Zacha and next years first rounder Not sure of the cap issues but that brings a heck of alot of punch to NJ to make the playoffs. Zacha's not primarily a center (even though he played 70 games, he still took the fewest draws of his career with only 377. Compare that to the likes of Bergeron (1600) and Horvat (1475) and that's not even close, and it might be a stretch to ask him to play up the middle full-time. The value is there, but just thinking that for center duties we should target someone else (e.g. Michael McLeod, who's consistently good at draws and even subbed on to take draws just to get possession before subbing off [Mercer's probably better as a player but his scoring isn't there yet, plus he was 35% on draws this year]). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 48 minutes ago, aGENT said: Well, a guy like Hague would "replace" one of those guys. For cheaper, while also getting younger. Pretty much exactly what we're going to be aiming to do and exactly what people are talking about here. So no, "any cap cleared" won't be used to replace them. "Some" cap, yes. Hague is not a top 4. If we want a legit top 4 it’s gonna cost at least 4 mil. So we save 2 mil on Myers assuming we don’t have to retain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 12 minutes ago, DeNiro said: Hague is not a top 4. That's debatable. He's also only 23 with room to get there (if you don't think he's there already). Never mind that we don't really need him to play top 4 given we already have Hughes and OEL on the left. 12 minutes ago, DeNiro said: If we want a legit top 4 it’s gonna cost at least 4 mil. So we save 2 mil on Myers assuming we don’t have to retain. Exactly. $2m(or more) saved. Now you're getting it. And all while also likely being a better fit given Myers is an ill fit with Hughes and OEL (both of whom would likely do better with cheaper, more defense-first oriented partners anyway). Lyubushkin as UFA is another option. I also think we likely end up moving out one of Miller/Garland/Boeser for a RHD at some point here. Besides, you're still missing the gist of the entire conversation. You clear the cap in Miller/Myers first. Then you have cap space to take advantage of teams who can't afford to extend their players. Ie: exactly how Colorado got Toews (or we got Miller in the first place). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayinblack Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 46 minutes ago, Phil_314 said: Zacha's not primarily a center (even though he played 70 games, he still took the fewest draws of his career with only 377. Compare that to the likes of Bergeron (1600) and Horvat (1475) and that's not even close, and it might be a stretch to ask him to play up the middle full-time. The value is there, but just thinking that for center duties we should target someone else (e.g. Michael McLeod, who's consistently good at draws and even subbed on to take draws just to get possession before subbing off [Mercer's probably better as a player but his scoring isn't there yet, plus he was 35% on draws this year]). I'd rather target Roy for 3C 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me_ Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 VAN Miller VAN Miller 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 1 minute ago, Me_ said: VAN Miller VAN Miller I’m pretty sure JR is coming back with our current extended core minus Garland. Miller might even play next season without a contract extension in place, and go the free agency summer 2023. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 46 minutes ago, aGENT said: That's debatable. He's also only 23 with room to get there (if you don't think he's there already). Never mind that we don't really need him to play top 4 given we already have Hughes and OEL on the left. Exactly. $2m(or more) saved. Now you're getting it. And all while also likely being a better fit given Myers is an ill fit with Hughes and OEL (both of whom would likely do better with cheaper, more defense-first oriented partners anyway). Lyubushkin as UFA is another option. I also think we likely end up moving out one of Miller/Garland/Boeser for a RHD at some point here. Besides, you're still missing the gist of the entire conversation. You clear the cap in Miller/Myers first. Then you have cap space to take advantage of teams who can't afford to extend their players. Ie: exactly how Colorado got Toews (or we got Miller in the first place). What about our right side D if we trade Myers? It’s gonna be Schenn, Poolman, and Dermott? That’s horrible depth. Which is why we’d need to go out and spend 4-5 mil to replace Myers on the right side. No real cap savings just a lateral move more or less. Nice thought but I doubt any of that happens. There will be plenty of teams with more cap space that can make those deals long before we unload a player like Myers. 2 mil savings will get eaten up instantly in a couple depth players, you’re not improving with that move. And you’re not getting 30 goals for less than 6 mil. So immediately we’re worse if we trade Miller. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 1 hour ago, NucknAsia said: You hit on an interesting idea. Garland for Zacha but I also see NJ as a perfect match for Miller. Perhaps its a bigger deal? They have alot of young talent, they need vets, they want to start making the playoffs with their young group and Miller would be a great leader for them. Miller Garland Vancouver 15th overall Myers Rathbone (that would hurt from an competitiveness perspective for us...lose alot of intensity so I'm not sure I like as I write it down haha) For NJ 2nd overall (Which they said they are open to moving) (Draft a top RD) NJ 1st round 2023 Zacha - Solves 3c issues Shakir Mukamadullin - Brings us size for the bottom LD pairing over Rathbone Severson - Have to give to get vs just prospects So really its: Severson, Sahkir, and 2nd overall - for Miller and our 15th overall Garland, Myers and Rathbone for Zacha and next years first rounder Not sure of the cap issues but that brings a heck of alot of punch to NJ to make the playoffs. For us, it solves our 3c Issue - Zacha Brings in a future top RD in our second overall pick Severson vs Myers, upgrade Rathbone vs Shakir - Love rathbone - rather have Shakir's size on our bottom or 2nd LD when its time plus futures (another first rounder in a deep draft 2023 Losing Garland hurts but assuming Brock can find his game again, and Podz can take the next step he won't be overly missed. Younger, bigger, faster loooool If we get that 2nd overall pick JR and Alvin are RUNNING to the podium to draft Juraj Slafkovsky so no. No RHD 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 5 minutes ago, DeNiro said: What about our right side D if we trade Myers? It’s gonna be Schenn, Poolman, and Dermott? That’s horrible depth. Which is why we’d need to go out and spend 4-5 mil to replace Myers on the right side. No real cap savings just a lateral move more or less. 56 minutes ago, aGENT said: Lyubushkin as UFA is another option. I also think we likely end up moving out one of Miller/Garland/Boeser for a RHD at some point here. So like I said, you trade for a guy like Marino and sign a guy like Lyubishkin. Cap saved, younger, faster, more cohesive D pairings with players that actually complement each other instead of the old, expensive, ill-fitting mish mash we have now. 5 minutes ago, DeNiro said: Nice thought but I doubt any of that happens. There will be plenty of teams with more cap space that can make those deals long before we unload a player like Myers. Myers is easily moveable IMO. His problem here is fit, not ability. Big RHD D who can skate and put up complimentary offense with only 2 years of term left. You're not going to get a better D on a better/shorter contract than that. The trade return might not be overwhelming but the cap savings and ability to put together a more cohesive D core would be well worth it. 5 minutes ago, DeNiro said: 2 mil savings will get eaten up instantly in a couple depth players, you’re not improving with that move. And you’re not getting 30 goals for less than 6 mil. So immediately we’re worse if we trade Miller. I still don't think you're grasping the concept of having the cap to get a guy like the "Toews for a couple 2nds" trade. Yeah, most of that cap gets eaten up by the player you acquire...but you need the cap in the first place to acquire them and you whitlle away at making space overall. It's not about just hoarding and not doing anything with Miller's $5m of cap space. It's about getting younger, cheaper, faster, more depth etc. And nobody said the moving Miller is going to be a step back. You don't/can't just "replace" a guy like that. You plan that the young core continues to progress, that maybe you sign a "Kuzmenko" to help replace some of the lost offense, that building a more cohesive D core means better puck transition forward and less goals against, etc, etc. All while getting younger/cheaper/faster to give your club the best long term outlook you can. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me_ Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 (edited) 9 hours ago, NucknAsia said: You hit on an interesting idea. Garland for Zacha but I also see NJ as a perfect match for Miller. Perhaps its a bigger deal? They have alot of young talent, they need vets, they want to start making the playoffs with their young group and Miller would be a great leader for them. Miller Garland Vancouver 15th overall Myers Rathbone (that would hurt from an competitiveness perspective for us...lose alot of intensity so I'm not sure I like as I write it down haha) For NJ 2nd overall (Which they said they are open to moving) (Draft a top RD) NJ 1st round 2023 Zacha - Solves 3c issues Shakir Mukamadullin - Brings us size for the bottom LD pairing over Rathbone Severson - Have to give to get vs just prospects So really its: Severson, Sahkir, and 2nd overall - for Miller and our 15th overall Garland, Myers and Rathbone for Zacha and next years first rounder Not sure of the cap issues but that brings a heck of alot of punch to NJ to make the playoffs. For us, it solves our 3c Issue - Zacha Brings in a future top RD in our second overall pick Severson vs Myers, upgrade Rathbone vs Shakir - Love rathbone - rather have Shakir's size on our bottom or 2nd LD when its time plus futures (another first rounder in a deep draft 2023 Losing Garland hurts but assuming Brock can find his game again, and Podz can take the next step he won't be overly missed. Younger, bigger, faster Damn son! If we knew it were that easy! Heres what I think we should do: VAN Barré-Boullet Bellemare Cirelli Colton Hagel Killorn Kucherov Maroon Nash Palat Perry Point Richards Stamkos Bogosian Cernak Foote Hedman McDonagy Rutta Sergachev Elliott Vasilevskiy TBL Boeser Chiasson Dickinson Garland Highmore Hoglander Horvat Lammikko Miller Pearson Pettersson Richardson Bowey Burroughs Dermott Ekman-Larsson Hughes Hunt Myers Poolman Schenn Demko 1OA22 1OA23 1OA24 1OA25 1OA26 1OA27 1OA28 1OA29 1OA30 And then I’d do: VAN Aube-Kubel Butakovsly Cogliano Compher Helm Kadri Landeskog Lehkonen MacKinnon Meyers Newhook Nichushkin O’Connor Rantanen Sturm Byram Girard E. Johnson J. Johnson MacDermid Makar Manson Murray Toews Francouz Kuemper COL Barré-Boullet Bellemare Cirelli Colton Hagel Killorn Kucherov Maroon Nash Palat Perry Point Richards Stamkos Bogosian Cernak Foote Hedman McDonagy Rutta Sergachev Elliott Vasilevskiy The only sticking point I could see in this very easy and cunning transaction, is fans’ disappointment in replacing Myers with Meyers. But fans do gain an extra “e”. Edited May 29, 2022 by Me_ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 21 minutes ago, aGENT said: So like I said, you trade for a guy like Marino and sign a guy like Lyubishkin. Cap saved, younger, faster, more cohesive D pairings with players that actually complement each other instead of the old, expensive, ill-fitting mish mash we have now. Myers is easily moveable IMO. His problem here is fit, not ability. Big RHD D who can skate and put up complimentary offense with only 2 years of term left. You're not going to get a better D on a better/shorter contract than that. The trade return might not be overwhelming but the cap savings and ability to put together a more cohesive D core would be well worth it. I still don't think you're grasping the concept of having the cap to get a guy like the "Toews for a couple 2nds" trade. Yeah, most of that cap gets eaten up by the player you acquire...but you need the cap in the first place to acquire them and you whitlle away at making space overall. It's not about just hoarding and not doing anything with Miller's $5m of cap space. It's about getting younger, cheaper, faster, more depth etc. And nobody said the moving Miller is going to be a step back. You don't/can't just "replace" a guy like that. You plan that the young core continues to progress, that maybe you sign a "Kuzmenko" to help replace some of the lost offense, that building a more cohesive D core means better puck transition forward and less goals against, etc, etc. All while getting younger/cheaper/faster to give your club the best long term outlook you can. JR on D&D said they are going to be very careful with what they do because he doesn’t want to take a step back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 11 minutes ago, Alflives said: JR on D&D said they are going to be very careful with what they do because he doesn’t want to take a step back. Yes. So something like exactly what I laid out there. The "Hamonic maneuver" but with bigger pieces. Exchanging older, expensive pieces for younger, cheaper (and in the case of Myers) better fitting pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 2 hours ago, DeNiro said: What about our right side D if we trade Myers? It’s gonna be Schenn, Poolman, and Dermott? That’s horrible depth. Which is why we’d need to go out and spend 4-5 mil to replace Myers on the right side. No real cap savings just a lateral move more or less. Nice thought but I doubt any of that happens. There will be plenty of teams with more cap space that can make those deals long before we unload a player like Myers. 2 mil savings will get eaten up instantly in a couple depth players, you’re not improving with that move. And you’re not getting 30 goals for less than 6 mil. So immediately we’re worse if we trade Miller. $5m Garland for M. Roy $3.1m Hughes Roy $6m Myer for Geekie (3C-r) $2.5m OEL Luybushkin UFA Luybushin $2.2m Dems Schenn Rath Burr $11m - $7.8m = $3.2m savings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NucknAsia Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Warhippy said: loooool If we get that 2nd overall pick JR and Alvin are RUNNING to the podium to draft Juraj Slafkovsky so no. No RHD I believe he may be overrated. His skyrocketing is a result of a brief tournament (yes amongst men) but brief nonetheless. The top 2 RD are franchise RD and given where we lack talent its stupid to pass on them. They are the BPA for this franchise and not a reach by any means given the above. Unless of course JR told you what his draft list looks like? Seems you view your opinon like its a fact, yet your "opinion" is no more or less valid than mine, thank you. So please take your "loooooool" and realize no one here is "Right" I appreciate your input Edited May 29, 2022 by NucknAsia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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