[Rumour] J.T. Miller Trade/Contract Talks

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

There are still people talking about how Benning set this franchise back years by letting Tanev and Markstrom walk for nothing and trading Toffoli for picks and prospects and then also letting him walk for nothing. 
 

Now it’s no big deal if we just let Miller walk for nothing. It’s almost like people are brainwashed into believing that is how cup contenders are built. Did Colorado or Tampa ever let so many elite players walk for nothing?  How do you actually build a prospect pool and be able to get good young players on ELC contracts if all you do is let your star players walk away in free agency with nothing back in return?  It’s mind boggling really. 
 

Tampa didn’t want or need Miller so they got rid of him and got some good assets in return. Miller is literally our best forward right now but people are okay with letting him walk for nothing. Unbelievable. 

Lesser of two Weevils?

Sign Miller to a very stupid, anchor contract (like the Cowpies did with Huberdough)

Play the season and Miller walks as a UFA July 1, 2023

[Coconuts]

4 minutes ago, Alflives said:

We all love our Ox but if he costs more than 6.5 in cap allocation put him in a wagon and ship him off to Buffalo.  

Nah, we don't. I don't care if folks like him or not, but he's our captain and management views him as such and everything that's been reported points towards them extending him as such. 

 

Miller as captain is a fantasy. He's been part of the leadership group and that's great, but he ain't captain in Vancouver. 

Edited August 8, 2022 by Coconuts

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

This is the philosophy I'm having trouble stomaching:

 

Guess i've reached the acceptance stage

It's not going to ruin this team for sure

 

So this is how we're basing decision making now? It shouldn't hurt the team that much is our new goal? That just seems ... like really bad judgement. I would fire anyone that worked for my company for that type behavior. That's just laying down without a fight or belief in yourself and your organization. It's like who cares, we're so impatient we don't care about anything anymore except spending as much as possible and just blindly pushing forward at breakneck speed. Just go for it who cares about our future or reality.

 

I don't know if this is where this is coming from but I feel impatient in the sense that the last 3 years weren't even real to me and TB's Cups have a big asterisk on them imo. The bubble wasn't real hockey at all and the final against Montreal was the first semblance of real hockey during that 2 year period. However that season, and this previous season were both total garbage due to Covid. So many teams missing many players over huge chunks of time. So yeah I'm dying for real hockey too but I'm not willing to sacrifice the team for impatience due to an uncontrollable situation.

 

Of course all trades could be nothing but that shouldn't stop you from trying. I mean this is a pretty common move in the NHL and some folks are making it seem like some stupid act of desperation when in fact this is how you generate assets in the NHL. If a middling team is struggling to get better what should a GM do if not trading expiring players for assets?

 

Sure, playoffs (possibly) and a buzz in April is a plus for the team and city but one must remember we also kept Tanev, Edler, Marky, Pearson, etc.. We also kept the Sedin's and didn't get any assets for them either. It's time to make a forward thinking decision for once instead of only thinking about today.

 

 

“You know; we live day to day”

[Coconuts]

Come on, wade in, let's get some more pages today. I know you wanna. 

[Devron]

2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

“You know; we live day to day”

All we have is today

[Gurn]

55 minutes ago, grandmaster said:

Drance is an idiot and you can never have “too much emotion”

 

I'd suggest that  at least 50% of all suspensions are because someone lost control over their emotions.

All retaliation penalties are because someone had too much emotion.

[Coconuts]

2 minutes ago, Devron said:

All we have is today

And a picture of young Bruce being jacked af

 

[Elias Pettersson]

1 minute ago, Devron said:

All we have is today

The future is today.  We do not know what will happen tomorrow.  We need to live in the moment...  

 

Love always,

 

Jim Benning

[Guest]

Just now, Devron said:

All we have is today

[Gawdzukes]

 

3 hours ago, stawns said:

I seriously cannot believe so many are just fine with losing Miller for nothing after years of whining about JB letting players walk.  

 

Yes, it's mind boggling. It reminds me of my bro. Here is what everyone does in this situation. Yeah we're not doing that ... again. And then wonder why we're not successful ... again.  

 

2 hours ago, aGENT said:

*Bleep, bloop, bloop*

 

Myers trade does not compute 

 

 

[guntrix]

1 hour ago, 204CanucksFan said:

Hey, thanks for the reply, I really appreciate it.  

 

While I was doing some research this morning I came across a Drance article from March that made my arguments and put how I feel much more eloquently than I ever could. I'll add it at the bottom of this post. (I know, I agree with Drance about something, gross right, I feel dirty). Here's my far less articulate version with my other opinions and examples.

 

You make some really good points and you are right, I agree he is a valuable leader but just not close to captain material for me. I agree that JT is emotional, but for me he's way too emotional, he can't control himself and at times, to me atleast, can come across as a spoiled child throwing a temper tantrum.

 

As I said in an earlier post, we've all seen him on the ice yelling and swearing when things don't go his way, he's lazy on his backchecks and he'll casually glide to bench for a change when the other team is gaining our zone on the rush. Now I'm not saying he does these things all the time but he does have a tendency towards them and these are not good signs of a leader to me, also these are all things that the coaches in Abbotsford are specifically trying to get out of Klimovich's game.

 

As I said before I do really think he is a good leader but sometimes he just does and says things that really bug me and show that he can't be a captain. The video interview you posted is a perfect example of this. I agree 100% with what he's doing and his overall message about how unfair the whole situation was and think it's great he spoke up. My problem with the interview, and I'm summarizing the dialogue obviously, is when Drance asked his follow up question about how it felt for JT knowing he didn't get Covid and so many of his teammates did and JT starts out with a great answer saying he felt sympathetic and kind of guilty but then it takes a hard turn for me when he immediately follows it up with "but all I can think about" is how is he supposed to be expected to come out and perform with no real practice and warmup time after this much time off.

 

For me, true leadership is when the team came back from Covid and Bo, who actually had Covid and didn't get any extra skating time that JT admitted he got while the team was off, came out and absolutely dominated the best team in the division. Bo let his play on the ice do all the talking for him that game, 2 goals including the OT winner and 3 points in a 3-2 game. JT's stat line: -1, 2PIM, 1shot. For me that fires the team up and gets the testosterone flowing far more than some guy swearing and slamming his stick cuz he missed a pass. Also, as I mentioned before, I've never seen JT carry a team through a playoff round but I've seen Bo do it.

 

As for off ice leadership, it was Bo that brought the team together in a players only meeting and took a vote, then brought the whole team down the hall to talk to Ryan Reaves at the Golden Knights dressing room and see how he wanted to proceed, then go out front and center with Reaves to put out the statement that they wouldn't be playing that night in response to George Floyd's death. That's a true leader.

 

Again, I wish that it made sense to keep JT without having to gut our depth, which for forwards at least is the best I've seen in about a decade, but with the cap most likely staying down its much better to use his value to help balance out our D and make it so our remaining forwards don't have to outscore that deficiency.

 

Apologies for the length lol and here's the article I mentioned at the start (sorry for formatting, I'm on mobile):

 

When the Vancouver Canucks needed him on Tuesday night against the New Jersey Devils, Bo Horvat stepped up.

That’s no surprise to anybody, or shouldn’t be if you’ve watched Horvat’s Canucks career unfold.

That’s just who he is. Horvat is the type of player, the type of person, that steps up.

He’s been the standard-bearer for this franchise through a fitful, messy rebuild. He’s said the right things and gone about his business with a work rate and maturity that’s beyond reproach.

He’s improved his game, donned the captain’s “C,” navigated a complicated hockey market with a Sedin-level level of authenticity as a spokesperson, and he’s consistently elevated his game when the chips are down and the leverage is highest.

So, why is Horvat so frequently overlooked in Vancouver? Why is this plugged-in, voracious hockey market always in search of the new hotness?

Why are we so focused on what Horvat isn’t? He’s never likely to be a Selke finalist, he’s not a top playmaker, he’s never quite figured out the penalty kill — as opposed to what he is?

On Tuesday, Horvat provided a reminder of what he can do.

Playing with new linemates, he’s always playing with new linemates, Horvat scored the go-ahead goal with a rush slap shot shortly after the New Jersey Devils tied the game.

The Devils were pressing, cycling in the Vancouver end. But it was Horvat that made the defensive play to strip Tomas Tatar of the puck, skated down the left wing and uncorked a big wind up and a heavy, low shot.

It was a shot that Devils goaltender Nico Daws should’ve stopped. Horvat joked after the game that it was the first time he’d ever scored on a slapper in the NHL. That’s pretty impressive because the sensors clocked the shot at 96 miles per hour.

The shot was fast enough to be an absolute backbreaker. The sort of goal that caused the entire Devils bench to sag, and sure enough, Vancouver scored the game-winner moments later, chasing Daws from the game.

When the Devils battled back and were pressing early in the third period, down a goal on the power play with a double minor and a chance to tie it, it was Horvat again that provided the insurance with a delicious bar down finish short-handed.

Like clockwork, Horvat stepped up.

Postgame, Canucks coach Bruce Boudreau referred to the performance as an indication that Horvat is a “true captain.” And yet the conversation in this market has been so focused on J.T. Miller’s leadership. His work setting “the standard” for this club.

It’s perhaps inevitable that the more demonstrative personality soaks up so much oxygen, something Horvat acknowledges with a joke, laughing when The Athletic asked him on Tuesday night about the leadership dynamic between him and Miller within the room.

“I might be a little bit nicer than J.T.,” Horvat laughs. “He’s just so passionate, he wants to win, he wants to be the best and he wants to have success here. And so do I.”

The fact is though, is that the two more than coexist within the environment of this club. Miller is a valuable piece, a key personality. Make no mistake, Miller would chafe under the obligations of wearing the “C” in this market over time, where Horvat handles it with grace.

Horvat, meanwhile, needs Miller’s edge in the room.

“J.T. is a hell of a player,” Horvat says. “He’s playing unbelievable right now and we need him to win. Everybody realizes that. I realize that.

“And I need him to step up in the room. I talk quite a bit and sometimes guys are like ‘Jeez, Bo, shut up.’ I don’t know if guys actually feel that way, but it feels that way to me sometimes.

“To have a different voice to step up sometimes and say things — and there’s other guys too, like Tyler Myers and Tanner Pearson — but that balance between J.T. and I, we have similar thoughts and similar mindsets about how we want to play as a team. Having a guy that I can lean on night in and night out is huge.”

Horvat, meanwhile, has been the subject of almost constant criticism of late. Questions fill the inbox at Sportsnet 650 on a regular basis, about why Horvat’s considered a core piece, but Miller isn’t.

That criticism reached a fever pitch after Horvat missed a run of games in COVID-19 protocol in January. Left behind in the United States for a stretch, Horvat struggled significantly on his return. Over eight games between January 29 and February 19, he managed just three points in eight games.

The criticism grew. Became voluminous. The criticism reached a level where Horvat had to unplug. Had to get back to basics, and just focus on himself.

“I try not to look at that kind of stuff, because it does, it mentally weighs on people,” Horvat says of stickhandling the criticism that struggling players endure in Vancouver.

“I knew I wasn’t playing good enough, I knew I wasn’t myself, so I just kind of blocked out everything. Not that I deleted my Twitter, but I logged out of all social media. I just thought, I need to take a step back, think about myself as a person, my game, where I’m at. And not worry about what other people think and what other people are saying.

“Honestly, it saved me. It did. It really did.

“Mentally I just focused on me, didn’t care what anybody else said, decided that I’m just going to go out and play. It’s kind of gone from there.”

Meanwhile, Horvat was working through a physical lethargy from his bout with the Omicron variant. The physical aftershocks, honestly, left him stunned.

“I don’t know whether it was COVID or because I had 10 days off and everyone is in midseason form and that’s the worst time to get it, and I was on the road away from everyone. It was probably mental a little bit, just mentally exhausted from everything, but I’m not going to lie: I did feel it physically,” Horvat told The Athletic. “I was actually shocked, when we all came back from when we all had COVID last year, and returned against the Leafs, it didn’t affect my lungs as much as it did this time. I feel way better now, and obviously … I mean you can tell.”

Considering that Horvat has put his post-COVID-19 struggles behind him, recording 14 points in his last 10 games, we can definitely tell.

Overall it was surprising to Horvat — who is fully vaccinated under NHL protocols — that he felt more lingering effects from this bout with COVID-19 in January of 2022 than he did seven months prior during Vancouver’s first team-level outbreak.

“Yeah it affected my game quite a bit, a lot more than I thought it would,” Horvat says. “Especially my lungs and my legs. I didn’t feel near myself, even though I had hardly any symptoms — cough, runny nose — but after that it took me a while to get my legs again, my wind and my timing. I don’t know if it takes away your hockey sense a little bit, but it felt like it.”

Horvat is healthy now. He’s the hottest player on one of the NHL’s hottest teams.

He’s got a chance to step up again, to play a key role for a team that’s going to be playing in a run of high-stakes games in the weeks and months to come. He wants a chance to see it through.

Now, no one believes that Canucks hockey operations leadership will behave like a typical seller at the deadline. Not now that they’re just a point removed from the second wild-card spot in the Western Conference.

Still, with the deadline looming, we asked Horvat the big question on everyone’s minds for another five days before the March 21 NHL trade deadline: “Has this team earned the right to see how far they can take this run?”

“Personally I think we have,” Horvat answered. “We’ve always had this in our room, it was just a matter of … I don’t know what.

“Nothing has really changed since the beginning of the year, we’ve had it all along, it was just about changing our mindset and getting it through to us. We all have belief in what we can do and we’ve proven night in and night out that we can play with any team and beat any team. It feels good to be in the position that we’re in now.

“Now it’s not up to me and I’m not telling anybody what to do, but it feels like we’re on a bit of a run and I want to see how far we can take this.”

(Top photo of Bo Horvat: Jeff Vinnick / NHLI via Getty Images)

tl, dr

[Coconuts]

@grandmaster I got a bit testy there and honestly, took it a bit too far. You're a passionate fan and while we don't see eye to eye on some topics you make good contributions. 

[Gurn]

8 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

And a picture of young Bruce being jacked af

 

If he was a better skater he'd have been a star.

Massive offensive skill.

[Coconuts]

2 minutes ago, gurn said:

If he was a better skater he'd have been a star.

Massive offensive skill.

Yeah, if you look at his numbers they were actually top end numbers his entire career. Just couldn't break into the bigs and stay there.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Boudreau#Career_statistics

Edited August 8, 2022 by Coconuts

[Gawdzukes]

 

2 hours ago, JM_ said:

we already have that. Pearson is expendable with this current F group. 

 

Yeah I don't know why some people cannot let go of any player on the roster. Surely Pearson is expendable and replaceable somehow if we get a draft pick ... like we should have done 2 deadlines ago when there was a market.

 

2 hours ago, stawns said:

Because he's the most valuable asset they've had since the sedins and I'd argue he's likely more valuable.  To let him walk would be one of the biggest blunders in franchise history........and that's saying something 

Yup, after not cashing in on the Sedin's et al this is the biggest trade chip we've had since before Kesler. Teams can't make poor decisions for an entire decade straight or more and expect to be successful. I understand the Sedin decision for the franchise but we can't keep doing that over and over again either, especially with a player that's only been here for 3 unsuccessful years anyway.

 

2 hours ago, JM_ said:

so more hyperbole then. So far the offers have been insufficient. Why would walking from a lame offer be "the biggest blunder in franchise history". Its only that in people's minds at this point. So far nothing has moved the needle on a trade offer, and there's no guarantee GMs are going to raise their offers either. 

As Stawns mentioned we really have no clue what is being offered though. None of us are in on those talks even though you are working your best to minimize the return. It's just such an obviously poor decision that makes it a massive blunder at this point in time. We're not in a position to make yet another stuck in the moment non move.

 

1 hour ago, stawns said:

hyperbole in what sense?  You don't think he's arguably oneof the most valuable assets they've had?  You don'tknow what offers there have been anymore than I do.  

Exactly

[Gawdzukes]

 

6 minutes ago, Jester13 said:

I've also said before how I feel as though Miller grew as a person, player, and leader under Bruce, so any moments pre-Bruce where he showed "too much emotion" should be taken with a grain of salt, as he showed that he can be a fiery personality that his teammates can get behind. 

 

Yeah I have to agree. I think Miller really grew as a person, player, and leader under Bruce, as well. His play and attitude from the start to the end of the season was an invaluable transformation. Good for Miller, I am quite impressed and happy for him. Not $70 million type of happy though. 

[Gawdzukes]

47 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Now it’s no big deal if we just let Miller walk for nothing. It’s almost like people are brainwashed into believing that is how cup contenders are built.   It’s mind boggling really. 
 

Tampa didn’t want or need Miller so they got rid of him and got some good assets in return. Miller is literally our best forward right now but people are okay with letting him walk for nothing. Unbelievable. 

 

Absolutely and simply mind boggling that people think you build good teams this way.

 

Unbelievable is right.

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

 

Yeah I have to agree. I think Miller really grew as a person, player, and leader under Bruce, as well. His play and attitude from the start to the end of the season was an invaluable transformation. Good for Miller, I am quite impressed and happy for him. Not $70 million type of happy though. 

I'm 50 schmil happy! 

 

Calgary being desperate and throwing the bank at Huberdeau has thrown a wrench in our negotiations. 

[IBatch]

57 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

This is the philosophy I'm having trouble stomaching:

 

Guess i've reached the acceptance stage

It's not going to ruin this team for sure

 

So this is how we're basing decision making now? It shouldn't hurt the team that much is our new goal? That just seems ... like really bad judgement. I would fire anyone that worked for my company for that type behavior. That's just laying down without a fight or belief in yourself and your organization. It's like who cares, we're so impatient we don't care about anything anymore except spending as much as possible and just blindly pushing forward at breakneck speed. Just go for it who cares about our future or reality.

 

I don't know if this is where this is coming from but I feel impatient in the sense that the last 3 years weren't even real to me and TB's Cups have a big asterisk on them imo. The bubble wasn't real hockey at all and the final against Montreal was the first semblance of real hockey during that 2 year period. However that season, and this previous season were both total garbage due to Covid. So many teams missing many players over huge chunks of time. So yeah I'm dying for real hockey too but I'm not willing to sacrifice the team for impatience due to an uncontrollable situation.

 

Of course all trades could be nothing but that shouldn't stop you from trying. I mean this is a pretty common move in the NHL and some folks are making it seem like some stupid act of desperation when in fact this is how you generate assets in the NHL. If a middling team is struggling to get better what should a GM do if not trading expiring players for assets?

 

Sure, playoffs (possibly) and a buzz in April is a plus for the team and city but one must remember we also kept Tanev, Edler, Marky, Pearson, etc.. We also kept the Sedin's and didn't get any assets for them either. It's time to make a forward thinking decision for once instead of only thinking about today.

 

 

Lol.     Not sure what your actually reading.   Showing that there are advantages to 3 different scenarios with Miller .... Funny stuff.   Maybe if we all jump up and down and throw a tantrum we will get what we want.   

[Goal:thecup]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

We all love our Ox but if he costs more than 6.5 in cap allocation put him in a wagon and ship him off to Buffalo.  

Here on Earth Alf, we try to put the Ox before the wagon.