[Rumour] J.T. Miller Trade/Contract Talks

[HKSR]

7 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

miller is superior to couturier and zib easy.. zib plays with one of the best playmakers in the game.. his stats obviously benefits from it while Miller is playing with the likes of boeser and pearson.. you can probably argue if miller is in zib's spot he'd easily be over 100 points.. 

 

you guys keep saying miller is top 10 in scoring one of the best in the game blah blah blah.. yet you guys all think he will sign for the lowest of comparison or less than his comparable coz he loves vancouver so much.. you guys also forgot to factor in those contracts were signed in previous years.. the cap would have gone up by 2mil-3mil by the time miller signs a contract with any team. 9mil-9.5mil will be the new 8.5mil in 2-3 years they'll probably also factor in the tv deal and the expected bigger raise in 24-25. 

I actually don't have a problem with how much he signs for.  I just want him signed lol.  $9m is fine by me cuz by the end of his deal, the cap limit will probably be $100m+

[mll]

5 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

miller is superior to couturier and zib easy.. zib plays with one of the best playmakers in the game.. his stats obviously benefits from it while Miller is playing with the likes of boeser and pearson.. you can probably argue if miller is in zib's spot he'd easily be over 100 points.. 

 

you guys keep saying miller is top 10 in scoring one of the best in the game blah blah blah.. yet you guys all think he will sign for the lowest of comparison or less than his comparable coz he loves vancouver so much.. you guys also forgot to factor in those contracts were signed in previous years.. the cap would have gone up by 2mil-3mil by the time miller signs a contract with any team. 9mil-9.5mil will be the new 8.5mil in 2-3 years they'll probably also factor in the tv deal and the expected bigger raise in 24-25. 

 

Panarin plays with Strome at 5v5 and not Zibanejad.  They play on the PP together though.

 

Miller's EV numbers are in the lower half of the 73 players playing at a 0.8 pace or higher  (min 20 games).  His PP production is pulling his numbers up where he is 3rd behind McDavid and Draisaitl.

 

[RWJC]

21 minutes ago, mll said:

 

Panarin plays with Strome at 5v5 and not Zibanejad.  They play on the PP together though.

 

Miller's EV numbers are in the lower half of the 73 players playing at a 0.8 pace or higher  (min 20 games).  His PP production is pulling his numbers up where he is 3rd behind McDavid and Draisaitl.

 

Interesting 

[wai_lai416]

22 minutes ago, mll said:

 

Panarin plays with Strome at 5v5 and not Zibanejad.  They play on the PP together though.

 

Miller's EV numbers are in the lower half of the 73 players playing at a 0.8 pace or higher  (min 20 games).  His PP production is pulling his numbers up where he is 3rd behind McDavid and Draisaitl.

 

i didn't know panarin doesn't play with zib 5v5 this year coz last year he was.. but regardless zib have kreider pumping up his stats this year and panarin last year.. it's no coincident zibanejad stats took off the year panarin joined the rangers.

[aGENT]

38 minutes ago, HKSR said:

I'm not convinced Boston will be a contender in a couple years.  Bergeron and Marchand are not getting any younger.  Marchand will be 35.  Bergeron 38!

 

I don't think Nashville is a contender in a couple years either.  I recall somewhere saying Poile wants to get some youth injected into the lineup.

Bergeron being 38 is precisely why they need Miller. 

 

And Captain Goalpost-mover, who said they were a contender in two years? That wasn't the discussion.

Edited February 27, 2022 by aGENT

[mll]

7 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

i didn't know panarin doesn't play with zib 5v5 this year coz last year he was.. but regardless zib have kreider pumping up his stats this year and panarin last year.. it's no coincident zibanejad stats took off the year panarin joined the rangers.

Wasn't last year either - only 66 minutes on the ice together at 5v5 last season per Natural Stat Trick.  

 

Might have more to do with maturity but also having 2 scoring lines for opponents to worry about - creates matchups issues.

 

Edited February 27, 2022 by mll

[shiznak]

1 hour ago, mll said:

 

Panarin plays with Strome at 5v5 and not Zibanejad.  They play on the PP together though.

 

Miller's EV numbers are in the lower half of the 73 players playing at a 0.8 pace or higher  (min 20 games).  His PP production is pulling his numbers up where he is 3rd behind McDavid and Draisaitl.

 

This is what I’ve been saying all along, that they’d rather just re-sign Strome than sell the future for Miller. Even though Strome is the inferior player.
 

You can’t beat known chemistry.

[coryberg]

35 minutes ago, shiznak said:

This is what I’ve been saying all along, that they’d rather just re-sign Strome than sell the future for Miller. Even though Strome is the inferior player.
 

You can’t beat known chemistry.

I'm pretty sure the Rangers are a better team with Strome AND Miller. You can beat known chemistry with known chemistry AND one of the leagues top scorers. 

[wai_lai416]

54 minutes ago, shiznak said:

This is what I’ve been saying all along, that they’d rather just re-sign Strome than sell the future for Miller. Even though Strome is the inferior player.
 

You can’t beat known chemistry.

NYR is desperate for scoring they are up in the standing coz of their powerplay.. outside of their powerplay they are not that good of a team. if anything strome is holding panarin back.. they need someone that can score and finish.. strome and his 10 goals is not the answer.. he's a nice complementary piece and prolly better off sliding down to the 3rd line. Strome stats is actually pretty bad offensively if u considering he's playing with one of the better playmakers in the league.

[shiznak]

1 hour ago, coryberg said:

I'm pretty sure the Rangers are a better team with Strome AND Miller. You can beat known chemistry with known chemistry AND one of the leagues top scorers. 

Sure, on paper they might be better, but like I mentioned numerous times deadline deals involving high end players rarely works out for the team who is already contenders. If Miller goes to NY, the mentality of him having to be the best player on the team, like here in Vancouver, might actually hurt the chemistry that the Rangers already have in their forward group. 

 

1 hour ago, wai_lai416 said:

NYR is desperate for scoring they are up in the standing coz of their powerplay.. outside of their powerplay they are not that good of a team. if anything strome is holding panarin back.. they need someone that can score and finish.. strome and his 10 goals is not the answer.. he's a nice complementary piece and prolly better off sliding down to the 3rd line. Strome stats is actually pretty bad offensively if u considering he's playing with one of the better playmakers in the league.

IMO, the Rangers are probably looking for more depth scoring if anything; someone like McCann, Kubalik, etc. Ones that wouldn’t cost them an arm and a leg to acquire. McCann would actually make sense, if they aren’t able to re-sign Strome in the off-season. He could easily replace Strome’s production. 
 

Funny how you mentioned Strome isn’t able to carry his line or is holding Panarin back. When his xGF without Panarin is over the 50% threshold. Meaning, without Panarin, the Rangers are still producing quality chances when Strome is on the ice. Strome’s xGF/60 rate is 2.73 (even strength), which is around the same as Pettersson, Boeser, and Horvat on our team.

Edited February 27, 2022 by shiznak

[wai_lai416]

2 hours ago, shiznak said:

Sure, on paper they might be better, but like I mentioned numerous times deadline deals involving high end players rarely works out for the team who is already contenders. If Miller goes to NY, the mentality of him having to be the best player on the team, like here in Vancouver, might actually hurt the chemistry that the Rangers already have in their forward group. 

 

IMO, the Rangers are probably looking for more depth scoring if anything; someone like McCann, Kubalik, etc. Ones that wouldn’t cost them an arm and a leg to acquire. McCann would actually make sense, if they aren’t able to re-sign Strome in the off-season. He could easily replace Strome’s production. 
 

Funny how you mentioned Strome isn’t able to carry his line or is holding Panarin back. When his xGF without Panarin is over the 50% threshold. Meaning, without Panarin, the Rangers are still producing quality chances when Strome is on the ice. Strome’s xGF/60 rate is 2.73 (even strength), which is around the same as Pettersson, Boeser, and Horvat on our team.

chance but no one is finishing who cares what their expected goals for is when no one is finishing... between panarin strome and a combination of kakko goodrow hunt or whoever else they stick on there.. they are barely producing.. strome is not a scorer panarin is not a scorer they can create high quality chance all day doesn't mean anything is there's no one to finish it.

[coryberg]

3 hours ago, shiznak said:

Sure, on paper they might be better, but like I mentioned numerous times deadline deals involving high end players rarely works out for the team who is already contenders. If Miller goes to NY, the mentality of him having to be the best player on the team, like here in Vancouver, might actually hurt the chemistry that the Rangers already have in their forward group. 

 

Interesting concept... In all the years that I've followed hockey I've never heard of a team worrying that adding one of the best players in the league would hurt their chemistry. 

[48MPHSlapShot]

17 hours ago, Coconuts said:

That's just it though, while the Kesler trade was a large one we were hamstrung by his willingness to only go to two teams, Miller has no such luxury as we voided his clause upon acquiring him

 

Whatever return we get won't be a "grab bag" for that reason alone, we're the team with the leverage, if teams don't pay they simply won't get

 

Parallels, sure, but absolutely apples and oranges 

My issue is that I've seen people express that they'd be OK with a return of a 1st rd pick, Lundvist and Chytil for Miller. To me that really doesn't look a whole lot better than a 1st, Bonino on Sbisa. I'll give you that Sbisa at the time of the trade was certainly more of a project than Lundvist is, but I'd also give the edge to Bonino over Chytil, considering his position and the season he had prior to being traded. 

 

Point is that they're similar packages. If we move Miller, we have to do way better than something comparable to the Kesler return.

[shiznak]

1 hour ago, wai_lai416 said:

chance but no one is finishing who cares what their expected goals for is when no one is finishing... between panarin strome and a combination of kakko goodrow hunt or whoever else they stick on there.. they are barely producing.. strome is not a scorer panarin is not a scorer they can create high quality chance all day doesn't mean anything is there's no one to finish it.

Goal scoring is only one of the few elements of being an offensive player. You never mentioned that in your argument. You just said he was an awful offensive player, which isn’t the case. Last year, when Panarin took a leave of absence, Strome was more than capable of handling the offensive load, when he had 11 points in 10 games during that stretch.

 

1 hour ago, coryberg said:

 

Interesting concept... In all the years that I've followed hockey I've never heard of a team worrying that adding one of the best players in the league would hurt their chemistry. 

I mean, you don’t have to look very far when Messier came into town and he and Keenan cleaned house. 

[Alflives]

After we lose to the Rags today, will we still be wanting to keep Miller?  We need to make the decision to trade Miller based on what's best for the team over the longer term.  

[48MPHSlapShot]

4 minutes ago, Alflives said:

After we lose to the Rags today, will we still be wanting to keep Miller?  We need to make the decision to trade Miller based on what's best for the team over the longer term.  

Even if it's for peanuts?

 

Also, weird to see you of all people rooting against the team in favor of the Rags.

Edited February 27, 2022 by 48MPHSlapShot

[HKSR]

8 hours ago, aGENT said:

Bergeron being 38 is precisely why they need Miller. 

 

And Captain Goalpost-mover, who said they were a contender in two years? That wasn't the discussion.

Uh in 2 years or so is when they can actually sign Miller as a UFA.  Did you forget we actually have him under contract until the off-season before 2023-24?

 

If Bergeron and Marchand are 38 and 35, I doubt they'd be a cup contender.

[Fanuck]

9 hours ago, HKSR said:

I'm curious which Stanley Cup contending teams you think will come along in 2 years with the cap space to sign him for $9m AAV?

Nobody really thought LV signing Pietrangelo was realistic,  but it happened.   Then, nobody  realistically thought LV could acquire Eichel, but they did.  

 

Any number of scenarios could emerge that we don't foresee yet, and just because we don't know about them doesn't mean they aren't legit possibilities. 

[HKSR]

10 minutes ago, Fanuck said:

Nobody really thought LV signing Pietrangelo was realistic,  but it happened.   Then, nobody  realistically thought LV could acquire Eichel, but they did.  

 

Any number of scenarios could emerge that we don't foresee yet, and just because we don't know about them doesn't mean they aren't legit possibilities. 

Of course anything is a possibility.  Like Miller re-signing for $7.95m AAV 

[HKSR]

53 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

My issue is that I've seen people express that they'd be OK with a return of a 1st rd pick, Lundvist and Chytil for Miller. To me that really doesn't look a whole lot better than a 1st, Bonino on Sbisa. I'll give you that Sbisa at the time of the trade was certainly more of a project than Lundvist is, but I'd also give the edge to Bonino over Chytil, considering his position and the season he had prior to being traded. 

 

Point is that they're similar packages. If we move Miller, we have to do way better than something comparable to the Kesler return.

It's usually what happens.  As time goes on, the ask by CDCers lowers and lowers because they grow impatient.   

 

Some still ask for the moon, but many on here would be happy simply to unload Miller for Lundkvist, Chytil, and a low 1st round pick now.  

I recall not long ago, the ask everywhere was Schneider, Chytil, Kravtsov and a 1st lol

Edited February 27, 2022 by HKSR