[Rumour] J.T. Miller Trade/Contract Talks

[aGENT]

55 minutes ago, higgyfan said:

Schneider is projected to be a 2nd pairing defensive dman.  He would likely do a great job alongside Quinn.  I am thinking

you would want more than Schneider for JT.  Right?  I'd like to see what you would add to this trade.

 

Quinn's need for a shutdown dman as a partner has changed, now that he is solid on the d-side of his game.

This opens up a broader range of possibilities in a partner for Quinn; a player that might not play is well as S

on defence, but has more offensive upside.  It would be great for the team to have another dman that could

put up points; especially on the 2nd PP.  Who knows...maybe that will become Rathbone's job.

His floor is probably 2nd pair, 2 way (not just defensive) D.

 

He projects to a #2-#3, two way D. Depending on where his ultimate ceiling lands, he'll almost certainly be a first or second pair D, that contributes in all three zones.

[higgyfan]

29 minutes ago, aGENT said:

His floor is probably 2nd pair, 2 way (not just defensive) D.

 

He projects to a #2-#3, two way D. Depending on where his ultimate ceiling lands, he'll almost certainly be a first or second pair D, that contributes in all three zones.

I guess it depends on which scouting report you read...

 

https://www.blueshirtbanter.com/2020/10/7/21505313/braden-schneider-scouting-report-rangers-19th-overall-selection-new-york-rangers-nhl-draft-2020

 

Last season’s Wheat Kings roster featured a miserable collection of offensive defensemen. Schneider was thrust into an extremely unfair position where he was forced to play a role beyond his means. Schneider may not have gifted hands, but he is a heady player who can complete routine passes. In more normal circumstances, the burden of responsibility would be placed elsewhere.

Not to compare Schneider’s overall game to Ryan Lindgren’s, as there are otherwise many differences, but we’ve seen this kind of phenomenon before. Put in a position as primary puck mover, Lindgren falls apart. On a pair with Adam Fox, though, he can delegate possession laterally whenever possible and otherwise find the basic outlets when they’re available.

“It’s fine. Not great but fine,” an NHL scout said of Schneider’s puck-handling.

Schneider produced 42 points in 60 WHL games this past season. That’s quite good production for his player type. He’s conservative in the offensive zone. If he has room, he can wind up and put some quality fastballs towards the net. Otherwise, his role is mostly in support. He sticks to his point, rarely dropping low to gamble on a numbers advantage. He won’t panic with the puck and will find passes to keep the play alive, but he’s not going to create.

The best way to describe his offensive abilities may be “good enough.” Cynical comparisons to Dylan McIlrath floated around social media following the Rangers’ selection, but McIlrath had 24 points in 65 games in his draft year, nearly half of Schneider’s points-per-game rate.

There aren’t really any gaping holes in Schneider’s game. Relative to where he was selected, Schneider is a pretty safe bet to make the NHL. The tradeoff is that his upside, to some degree, is questionable. The flip side of his being relied on as the Wheat Kings’ point man in offensive situations is that it may have inflated his point totals. On a team with better options, he’s not getting on the ice with the first power play unit, nor is he getting that many touches of the puck in the offensive zone at even strength.

As previously noted, he’s physically mature. Since Schneider was born on September 20th, 2001, he is one of the oldest players in this draft class and he will be eligible to play in the AHL for the 2021-2022 season. While that provides confidence in his NHL future and that it may come quite quickly, it brings into question how much more room there is left for him to grow. How much developmental runway is left for his game on the whole? That’s the tradeoff.

[aGENT]

6 minutes ago, higgyfan said:

I guess it depends on which scouting report you read...

 

https://www.blueshirtbanter.com/2020/10/7/21505313/braden-schneider-scouting-report-rangers-19th-overall-selection-new-york-rangers-nhl-draft-2020

 

Last season’s Wheat Kings roster featured a miserable collection of offensive defensemen. Schneider was thrust into an extremely unfair position where he was forced to play a role beyond his means. Schneider may not have gifted hands, but he is a heady player who can complete routine passes. In more normal circumstances, the burden of responsibility would be placed elsewhere.

Not to compare Schneider’s overall game to Ryan Lindgren’s, as there are otherwise many differences, but we’ve seen this kind of phenomenon before. Put in a position as primary puck mover, Lindgren falls apart. On a pair with Adam Fox, though, he can delegate possession laterally whenever possible and otherwise find the basic outlets when they’re available.

“It’s fine. Not great but fine,” an NHL scout said of Schneider’s puck-handling.

Schneider produced 42 points in 60 WHL games this past season. That’s quite good production for his player type. He’s conservative in the offensive zone. If he has room, he can wind up and put some quality fastballs towards the net. Otherwise, his role is mostly in support. He sticks to his point, rarely dropping low to gamble on a numbers advantage. He won’t panic with the puck and will find passes to keep the play alive, but he’s not going to create.

The best way to describe his offensive abilities may be “good enough.” Cynical comparisons to Dylan McIlrath floated around social media following the Rangers’ selection, but McIlrath had 24 points in 65 games in his draft year, nearly half of Schneider’s points-per-game rate.

There aren’t really any gaping holes in Schneider’s game. Relative to where he was selected, Schneider is a pretty safe bet to make the NHL. The tradeoff is that his upside, to some degree, is questionable. The flip side of his being relied on as the Wheat Kings’ point man in offensive situations is that it may have inflated his point totals. On a team with better options, he’s not getting on the ice with the first power play unit, nor is he getting that many touches of the puck in the offensive zone at even strength.

As previously noted, he’s physically mature. Since Schneider was born on September 20th, 2001, he is one of the oldest players in this draft class and he will be eligible to play in the AHL for the 2021-2022 season. While that provides confidence in his NHL future and that it may come quite quickly, it brings into question how much more room there is left for him to grow. How much developmental runway is left for his game on the whole? That’s the tradeoff.

Not sure any of that refutes what I said.

 

He's not an offensive D, nor is he an offensive black hole, defensive D. He's a 2 way, complimentary offense, defenseman. 

 

His ability to put up that complimentary offense (or not) will likely be a large part of whether he becomes a #2, or #3 D.

Edited March 1, 2022 by aGENT

[higgyfan]

4 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Not sure any of that refutes what I said.

 

He's not an offensive D, nor is he an offensive black hole, defensive D. He's a 2 way, complimentary offense, defenseman. 

 

His ability to put up that complimentary offense (or not) will likely be a large part of whether he becomes a #2, or #3 D.

The article never said he was a black hole offensively. 

 

"Schneider may not have gifted hands, but he is a heady player who can complete routine passes.

 

his role is mostly in support. He sticks to his point, rarely dropping low to gamble on a numbers advantage.

He won’t panic with the puck and will find passes to keep the play alive, but he’s not going to create.

The best way to describe his offensive abilities may be “good enough.”

 

 

[aGENT]

3 hours ago, higgyfan said:

The article never said he was a black hole offensively. 

 

"Schneider may not have gifted hands, but he is a heady player who can complete routine passes.

 

his role is mostly in support. He sticks to his point, rarely dropping low to gamble on a numbers advantage.

He won’t panic with the puck and will find passes to keep the play alive, but he’s not going to create.

The best way to describe his offensive abilities may be “good enough.”

 

 

I didn't say it did. You called him a defensive defenseman. Defensive defensemen tend to be black holes offensively (largely from their usage) and rarely get above 20 points/82. Schneider projects to be more of a complimentary +/-30 point, 2 way D. The "Seabrook" to a "Keith" is what his ceiling is. 

Edited March 2, 2022 by aGENT

[higgyfan]

1 hour ago, aGENT said:

I didn't say it did. You called him a defensive defenseman. Defensive defensemen tend to be black holes offensively (largely from their usage) and rarely get above 20 points/82. Schneider projects to be more of a complimentary +/-30 point, 2 way D. The "Seabrook" to a "Keith" is what his ceiling is. 

I've seen him compared to Seabrook a few times, but also Braydon Coburn as well.  Hopefully he'll be more Brent than Braydon.

 

https://www.lohud.com/story/sports/nhl/rangers/2021/09/14/ranking-top-10-prospects-ny-rangers-no-3-braden-schneider/8326097002/

 

There isn't much flash to his game — just reliability.

The New York Rangers, who loaded up on skill players during their multi-year rebuild, believe that's exactly what they need to balance out their roster.  Schneider has had the reputation as "a shutdown guy" since he joined the Wheat Kings at 15 years old.

"He's a bit of a throwback defenseman that's big, moves well, plays physical (and) in your face," director of player development Jed Ortmeyer said. "He loves the challenge of playing against other people's top players."

“In his own zone, Schneider’s one of the better defensive defencemen in this draft. He uses his length and strength well off the rush, too, but his biggest asset is his ability to take away time and space in the defensive zone, close out the wall, win puck battles and advance the play back up ice with a quick outlet.” - Scott Wheeler, The Athletic

Tony Ferrari - Dobber Prospects - Sept. 30th: "He doesn’t press himself into offensive duties very often though so neither can be expected on a nightly basis. What makes Schneider special is his ability to prevent defensive zone entries and get the puck out immediately when the puck does get into his zone."

Corey Pronman of the Athletic (subscription required)  had him going to Washington with the 24th overall pick.   He had him ranked as the 25th best prospect in the draft and this is what one scout told him about Schneider: “He’s mobile, he’s hard to play against, he can make a very good first pass. The offense is never going to pop with him, but he has a lot of elements in his game that will translate to the NHL.”

 

 

[N4ZZY]

7 hours ago, higgyfan said:

Schneider is projected to be a 2nd pairing defensive dman.  He would likely do a great job alongside Quinn.  I am thinking

you would want more than Schneider for JT.  Right?  I'd like to see what you would add to this trade.

 

Quinn's need for a shutdown dman as a partner has changed, now that he is solid on the d-side of his game.

This opens up a broader range of possibilities in a partner for Quinn; a player that might not play is well as S

on defence, but has more offensive upside.  It would be great for the team to have another dman that could

put up points; especially on the 2nd PP.  Who knows...maybe that will become Rathbone's job.

Oh yeah, definitely more than Schneider in a deal for JT. But he would be the principle player I’d build a deal around. 

 

I’d want a 1st without a doubt, Schneider, one of Chytil/young forward, and a prospect. 

 

3-4 pieces for a top 10 player in points for Miller. that’s fair, no? 

 

[BPA]

1 hour ago, N4ZZY said:

Oh yeah, definitely more than Schneider in a deal for JT. But he would be the principle player I’d build a deal around. 

 

I’d want a 1st without a doubt, Schneider, one of Chytil/young forward, and a prospect. 

 

3-4 pieces for a top 10 player in points for Miller. that’s fair, no? 

 

Not according to NYR fans who think Kratsov + 2nd can land Miller.

 

 

 

[aGENT]

2 hours ago, higgyfan said:

I've seen him compared to Seabrook a few times, but also Braydon Coburn as well.  Hopefully he'll be more Brent than Braydon.

 

https://www.lohud.com/story/sports/nhl/rangers/2021/09/14/ranking-top-10-prospects-ny-rangers-no-3-braden-schneider/8326097002/

 

There isn't much flash to his game — just reliability.

The New York Rangers, who loaded up on skill players during their multi-year rebuild, believe that's exactly what they need to balance out their roster.  Schneider has had the reputation as "a shutdown guy" since he joined the Wheat Kings at 15 years old.

"He's a bit of a throwback defenseman that's big, moves well, plays physical (and) in your face," director of player development Jed Ortmeyer said. "He loves the challenge of playing against other people's top players."

“In his own zone, Schneider’s one of the better defensive defencemen in this draft. He uses his length and strength well off the rush, too, but his biggest asset is his ability to take away time and space in the defensive zone, close out the wall, win puck battles and advance the play back up ice with a quick outlet.” - Scott Wheeler, The Athletic

Tony Ferrari - Dobber Prospects - Sept. 30th: "He doesn’t press himself into offensive duties very often though so neither can be expected on a nightly basis. What makes Schneider special is his ability to prevent defensive zone entries and get the puck out immediately when the puck does get into his zone."

Corey Pronman of the Athletic (subscription required)  had him going to Washington with the 24th overall pick.   He had him ranked as the 25th best prospect in the draft and this is what one scout told him about Schneider: “He’s mobile, he’s hard to play against, he can make a very good first pass. The offense is never going to pop with him, but he has a lot of elements in his game that will translate to the NHL.”

 

 

That's basically it. His floor may be Coburn but his ceiling is probably closer to Seabrook. Who knows where is lands in there.

 

Again, he's not going to be a primary play driver/offensive D like Hughes. Hell be a solid, 2 way, defensively sound, complementary offensive guy, with the good first pass and ability to eat pucks up all night and keep moving them up the ice. His ability to get those points, will likely largely determine whether that's at a first or second pair level.

[N4ZZY]

5 hours ago, BPA said:

Not according to NYR fans who think Kratsov + 2nd can land Miller.

 

 

 

well NYR fans are &^@#ing delusional. LOL 

 

if they want Miller who is top ten in scoring now, for a guy who isn't in the league at the moment, and a 2nd, they can go &^@# THEMSELVES.

 

[Nicklas Bo Hunter]

I would take kakko over Miller. Kakko has the tools to be a megastar it is just not working in NYR

[Kobayashi Maru]

I would take an offer of Schneider and Kakko for Miller in a heartbeat.  Schneider meets an immediate need for an NHL ready RD and you just hope that Kakko returns to form in another environment to be able to cover some of what Miller brings, but for a much longer time with more cost certainty.

 

Don't forget if Kakko and Schneider (Two key pieces) are on ELCs or RFA deals you will still have money for a UFA that meets another need.

 

It's not the greatest example but imagine something like Kakko, Schneider and Domi/Neiderreiter (UFA) for the same money as Miller for the next 3 years.

[Gawdzukes]

14 hours ago, higgyfan said:

I've seen him compared to Seabrook a few times, but also Braydon Coburn as well.  Hopefully he'll be more Brent than Braydon.

 

https://www.lohud.com/story/sports/nhl/rangers/2021/09/14/ranking-top-10-prospects-ny-rangers-no-3-braden-schneider/8326097002/

 

There isn't much flash to his game — just reliability.

The New York Rangers, who loaded up on skill players during their multi-year rebuild, believe that's exactly what they need to balance out their roster.  Schneider has had the reputation as "a shutdown guy" since he joined the Wheat Kings at 15 years old.

"He's a bit of a throwback defenseman that's big, moves well, plays physical (and) in your face," director of player development Jed Ortmeyer said. "He loves the challenge of playing against other people's top players."

“In his own zone, Schneider’s one of the better defensive defencemen in this draft. He uses his length and strength well off the rush, too, but his biggest asset is his ability to take away time and space in the defensive zone, close out the wall, win puck battles and advance the play back up ice with a quick outlet.” - Scott Wheeler, The Athletic

Tony Ferrari - Dobber Prospects - Sept. 30th: "He doesn’t press himself into offensive duties very often though so neither can be expected on a nightly basis. What makes Schneider special is his ability to prevent defensive zone entries and get the puck out immediately when the puck does get into his zone."

Corey Pronman of the Athletic (subscription required)  had him going to Washington with the 24th overall pick.   He had him ranked as the 25th best prospect in the draft and this is what one scout told him about Schneider: “He’s mobile, he’s hard to play against, he can make a very good first pass. The offense is never going to pop with him, but he has a lot of elements in his game that will translate to the NHL.”

 

 

To be a point getting defenceman on a good team often you just need to get the puck to the forwards quickly and cleanly and let them do there work. Other than the power play that is. He might not be flashy but fits our needs well. A mobile defenceman that can skate and mesh well well with our gifted forwards.

Edited March 2, 2022 by Gawdzukes

[BPA]

So apparently the asking price for Giroux is a 1st + prospect + young guy.

 

Miller trade value is going up!!!

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, BPA said:

So apparently the asking price for Giroux is a 1st + prospect + young guy.

 

Miller trade value is going up!!!

Yup.  Miller is the better player, he's on a better contract, and the aquiring club gets him for two playoff runs.  

[Alflives]

3 hours ago, Nicklas Bo Hunter said:

I would take kakko over Miller. Kakko has the tools to be a megastar it is just not working in NYR

Is Kakko even an NHL player at this point?  Lots of skill and size, but does he have the desire?  Is he like Olli Juiolevi and lacking the inner strenght of character to play the right way?  

[Me_]

On 3/1/2022 at 2:01 PM, N4ZZY said:

Schneider for me hits all the marks - RHD, he’s young at 20 years old, and he’s already on the Ranger’s roster. He’s the kind of player the Canucks need. He’s got size at 6’2, and he plays naturally the right side of defense. He’d be the absolute ideal pairing for Quinn moving forward. Schneider would move the needle for us, Miller for them. 

Actually, the ideal pairing for Hughes is Schenn. Massive, stay at home D who makes pretty damn good decisions and hits hard.

 

And having Miller up front makes that the Canucks score.

 

Simple facts.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Me_ said:

Actually, the ideal pairing for Hughes is Schenn. Massive, stay at home D who makes pretty damn good decisions and hits hard.

 

And having Miller up front makes that the Canucks score.

 

Simple facts.

And Schenn is on a fantastic contract and he's only 32.  He's got several very good years left in his legs.  Having a phenom like Hughes allows for us to partner him with a guy like Schenn and save on the cap, so we can spend it elsewhere.  

[Me_]

Just now, Alflives said:

And Schenn is on a fantastic contract and he's only 32.  He's got several very good years left in his legs.  Having a phenom like Hughes allows for us to partner him with a guy like Schenn and save on the cap, so we can spend it elsewhere.  

Least of our concerns, is the HUGHES - SCHENN pairing.

[rekker]

Weird. Im seeing Kadri's name out there. What if Sakic is thinking of moving Kadri for assets, they can't afford him moving forward. Then deal for Miller, cost controlled for two playoff pushes. Skaic would be able to offer a wide range of picks, players.