aGENT Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 3 minutes ago, HKSR said: Poolman is 2.5m Burroughs is less than 1m Halak is 3m with his bonus Martin is around 1m That's just two changes for 3.5m in savings 17 minutes ago, aGENT said: They're not mutually exclusive. IMO we need to move both groups to actually make a go of this core. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 3 minutes ago, aGENT said: No, it's not. Moving Miller isn't about "replacing" him. You can't just replace "today Miller". Most of us concede there will be a short term "step back" (though I still believe we could maintain being a bubble playoff team with the right return and subsequent moves). You use him to fill our other (and they're plentiful) holes and succession issues. Not to mention the cap crunch we find ourselves in and not spending $9m on a 50 point player in 4+ years, in the meat of our contention window. Didn't JR say we will need to take a step back now to be better for it in the near future? Moving Miller is a move we have to make, if JR is still following his originally stated plan. My concern is our owner (again) has gotten involved and trading Miller is no longer allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 We hit 300 pages, proud of you guys. Good job team! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Coconuts said: Eh, I struggle with my self-worth far too much to be a narcissist. If anything I think too little of myself. narcissists aren't necessarily arrogant or think too highly of thenselves, they're just self involved. Edited March 19, 2022 by tas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanSeanBean Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 28 minutes ago, shiznak said: Man, can you imagine a Cup contender playing, a player like Burroughs in their top 4. Burroughs is an 7-8 on a cup contending team. I say that with total admiration of NewBurr because he has been really good for us this year, but on a cup team he is depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawdzukes Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 2 hours ago, Alflives said: The key though is to get those key pieces in places (young) and then build around them. Miller is just too old (he will be 30 when his next contract starts) to be considered part of our key core. He's a support piece, and someone like him is signed or traded for when our key young guys are the leaders. And Buffalo is looking like they are doing it right, finally. And so is Detroit. Dive to the bottom, collect the key young pieces, then fill in support players through Free Agency, Trade, Draft. Yeah this is it exactly. I love Petterson and think he's great but that horse$&!# giving up breakaways on the PP for goals has to stop. He's done it multiple times now. That was a massive game he blew for us against Detroit. He will mature but it's not happening overnight. At the end of the day you're right. Miller is a supreme complimentary player on a cup contending team. We're not there yet and do they catch up by the time Miller declines? It's hard to be sure but it's so tight the percentages don't play out well for us. At the end of the day I just don't think it's possible to remain status quo and win the SC. Teams have to be creative and patient with long term planning to get a leg up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 1 minute ago, aGENT said: The issue I have is that the pro-trade camp lays out the following: 1. Cap saved from Miller will translate to successful use of cap and not on useless free agents or re-signings 2. Prospects received will likely pan out 3. Picks will likely provide solid depth 4. Petey, Hughes, and others will naturally take the next step in their development 5. If Miller stays, he will definitely be useless in 3 or 4 years, and everybody else on the team will suffer and not develop like they would in #4 above 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 1 minute ago, tas said: narcissists aren't necessarily arrogant, they're just self involved. Sure, but don't we all have to be? We have to live our own lives after all. Where do you draw the line? Seems like a rather broad brush for what amounts to millions, if not billions, of forum users. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandmaster Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 23 minutes ago, tas said: I went backwards through 6 pages of posts thinking, "oh, something must have happened for there to be 100+ new posts in an hour." silly me -- just more of the world's longest and most unchanging argument. I think it's time for closing arguments here, folks. there's nothing new to be said. it's time to let the jury deliberate. I think like We should all get together for drinks and argue further…. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 1 minute ago, grandmaster said: I think like We should all get together for drinks and argue further…. I mean, Alf's been chiming in consistently so maybe the rest of us just need to catch up? We've got skype, discord, zoom even.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 2 minutes ago, Coconuts said: Sure, but don't we all have to be? We have to live our own lives after all. Where do you draw the line? Seems like a rather broad brush for what amounts to millions, if not billions, of forum users. Ooooo.... I feel a narcissism argument unfolding! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 Just now, HKSR said: Ooooo.... I feel a narcissism argument unfolding! Hey now, if CDC loves anything it's going off topic! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 1 minute ago, Coconuts said: Hey now, if CDC loves anything it's going off topic! Well I think Fiala is more narcissistic than Miller... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiznak Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 27 minutes ago, HKSR said: I didn't say Myers and Hamonic walk, but if they do, you just cleared $11.5m in cap between Myers, Hamonic, and Poolman. 11m to find 3 viable replacements. Burroughs should be a 7th defensemen, if that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 2 minutes ago, shiznak said: 11m to find 3 viable replacements. Burroughs should be a 7th defensemen, if that. 5m, 5m, 1m should be the distribution. We are lucky right now Schenn is playing like a top 4 for under 1m. Right now it's: Schenn Myers Hamonic Poolman Burroughs Not sure why we are carrying 5 RHD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 11 minutes ago, Coconuts said: Sure, but don't we all have to be? We have to live our own lives after all. Where do you draw the line? Seems like a rather broad brush for what amounts to millions, if not billions, of forum users. feeling the need the shout the same argument over and over again to make sure your opinion is the loudest is textbook narcissism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 1 minute ago, HKSR said: The issue I have is that the pro-trade camp lays out the following: 1. Cap saved from Miller will translate to successful use of cap and not on useless free agents or re-signings How the cap is used is largely up to new management. The cap = opportunity to use it better than we currently are. Maybe even to trade for the next Miller! Why do you assume it would be on "useless free agents" or extensions? Who are we "uselessly" extending? Petey? Podkolzin? Would be difficult to be worse than spending $9m on a 50 point player... 1 minute ago, HKSR said: 2. Prospects received will likely pan out Literally addressed this s few pages ago. Even if literally none of the trade returns become even a 4th line grinder, you still have $9m in cap space. 1 minute ago, HKSR said: 3. Picks will likely provide solid depth *Opportunity. Nothing more. I've seen literally no one saying picks WILL provide solid depth. 1 minute ago, HKSR said: 4. Petey, Hughes, and others will naturally take the next step in their development I mean it's likely. Players generally continue to get better and peak around 27-28, with a few years before and after, of high level play ("prime"). 1 minute ago, HKSR said: 5. If Miller stays, he will definitely be useless in 3 or 4 years, and everybody else on the team will suffer and not develop like they would in #4 above There's just so much hyperbole straw here, I'm getting hay fever. Nobody has said useless. He won't likely be playing at a $9m level. Probably half that. I don't think I've seen anyone make that development argument either. We won't be able to afford the quality depth around them, or fix our other, plentiful holes and succession issues, required to make is a contender. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawdzukes Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 2 hours ago, stawns said: Not at $9m+ a year well into their late 30's, however. Thats beyond ridiculous.......moot point anyway as I don't think he likes playing in Canada nor do I think he has any intention of -re-upping with the Canucks..........which is where the whole idea of moving him grew from........ something you seem to not think, or care about. I've been mentioning this off and on for awhile now when everyone gets so off-track about whether he will or won't age well. It's not even the crux of the matter. When you get down to thinking about it and understand his likelihood of re-signing in Canada is very low it makes perfect sense to trade him for one of the biggest hauls in Canuck history. It's nothing personal against JT it's just common sense really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4ZZY Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 2 hours ago, aGENT said: People putting too much stock in a couple games IMO. Management knows what this team is, what it lacks and what it needs. A couple of games doesn't really change that. IMO, it's all about what offers are, or aren't, on the table. If we're not getting value, we have no urgency to move anyone outside of Motte (and even then I'd let him walk if all we're getting is 4th rounders or something), just for the sake of moving them. I also think that maybe the offers haven’t been good enough for management to have made a move, or else, I suspect that they would have already made a move already. This weekend, usually, is when talks and trades begin to heat up, especially the last 24 hours or so. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 4 minutes ago, tas said: feeling the need the shout the same argument over and over again to make sure your opinion is the loudest is textbook narcissism. The need? That's a pretty loaded statement. The same argument? Sure, given the premise is Miller, but the ongoing argument has been pretty fluid on both sides in regards to integrating new information. Does having a firm stance and engaging in ongoing dialogue equate to being a narcissist? If so, are most forum users narcissists? Where does the line blur between the same argument and the same ongoing theme? Does this extend to those who are optimistic about the playoff chances of the Canucks and those who have continued to be skeptical since Boudreau took over? Because you get a lot of the same arguments happening repeatedly in regards to that theme. Are you a narcissist if you express a firm argument and position and continue to have ongoing dialogue with me in regards to this topic? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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