[Rumour] J.T. Miller Trade/Contract Talks

[grandmaster]

12 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

I've been mentioning this off and on for awhile now when everyone gets so off-track about whether he will or won't age well. It's not even the crux of the matter. When you get down to thinking about it and understand his likelihood of re-signing in Canada is very low it makes perfect sense to trade him for one of the biggest hauls in Canuck history. It's nothing personal against JT it's just common sense really.

American born Kesler to this day says:

 

“Vancouver will always be home to my family. Vancouver will always be where my son was born. I love it there and I go back every summer.”

 

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/ryan-kesler-opens-up-trade-request-canucks

 

Your argument about Canada versus USA as less impact than you think. 
 

Also explain the 6 year contract he signed in Vancouver:

 

https://www.nhl.com/canucks/news/canucks-sign-ryan-kesler-to-long-term-contract-extension/c-521956

Edited March 19, 2022 by grandmaster

[N4ZZY]

4 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

The need? That's a pretty loaded statement. 

 

The same argument? Sure, given the premise is Miller, but the ongoing argument has been pretty fluid on both sides in regards to integrating new information. 

 

Does having a firm stance and engaging in ongoing dialogue equate to being a narcissist? If so, are most forum users narcissists? Where does the line blur between the same argument and the same ongoing theme? Does this extend to those who are optimistic about the playoff chances of the Canucks and those who have continued to be skeptical since Boudreau took over? Because you get a lot of the same arguments happening repeatedly in regards to that theme. 

 

Are you a narcissist if you express a firm argument and position and continue to have ongoing dialogue with me in regards to this topic?  

 

 

Isn’t that what a forum is for? Discussion, conversation about the Canucks? 

 

And everyone’s got their own stance and position on certain players, whether they should not be traded, or traded, etc, etc. Of course those ideas are going to keep coming up again and again. That’s part of the discussion!

 

About the narcissists stuff. I’m not going to engage on that. 

 

[Coconuts]

Just now, N4ZZY said:

Isn’t that what a forum is for? Discussion, conversation about the Canucks? 

 

And everyone’s got their own stance and position on certain players, whether they should not be traded, or traded, etc, etc. Of course those ideas are going to keep coming up again and again. That’s part of the discussion!

 

About the narcissists stuff. I’m not going to engage on that. 

 

Yeah, it is. And for sure, and I really enjoy that discussion which is why I participate. Maybe I end up being right about Miller, maybe I end up being wrong, maybe there's a twist and somehow both sides are right or wrong. It's all interesting to me. 

 

I'm invested, in this particular debate and in the Canucks.

 

As for the narcissism bit, it's just banter really, but I do find it interesting. 

[HKSR]

16 minutes ago, aGENT said:

How the cap is used is largely up to new management. The cap = opportunity to use it better than we currently are. Maybe even to trade for the next Miller!

 

Why do you assume it would be on "useless free agents" or extensions? Who are we "uselessly" extending? Petey? Podkolzin?

 

Would be difficult to be worse than spending $9m on a 50 point player...

 

Literally addressed this s few pages ago. Even if literally none of the trade returns become even a 4th line grinder, you still have $9m in cap space.

 

*Opportunity. Nothing more. I've seen literally no one saying picks WILL provide solid depth.

 

 

I mean it's likely. Players generally continue to get better and peak around 27-28, with a few years before and after, of high level play ("prime").

 

 

There's just so much hyperbole straw here, I'm getting hay fever.

 

Nobody has said useless. He won't likely be playing at a $9m level. Probably half that.

 

I don't think I've seen anyone make that development argument either. We won't be able to afford the quality depth around them, or fix our other, plentiful holes and succession issues, required to make is a contender.

Not as difficult as you think.  How many free agents have panned out for teams lately? How many late 1st round picks have panned out?  Etc etc.  With Miller you gamble on one thing and one thing only, how far will he decline because you know he will be effective and useful for at least another 3 or 4 years.

 

Trade Miller and you gamble multiple times with low odds on all of them:

1. Use of $9m in cap

2. Draft picks 

3. Prospect turning out

 

 

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Not as difficult as you think.  How many free agents have panned out for teams lately? How many late 1st round picks have panned out?  Etc etc.  With Miller you gamble on one thing and one thing only, how far will he decline because you know he will be effective and useful for at least another 3 or 4 years.

 

Trade Miller and you gamble multiple times with low odds on all of them:

1. Use of $9m in cap

2. Draft picks 

3. Prospect turning out

 

 

With Miller we aren't a playoff team.  How are we going to sign Miller and become a better team that can be in the playoffs consistently and compete for Cups?

[N4ZZY]

3 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

Yeah, it is. And for sure, and I really enjoy that discussion which is why I participate. Maybe I end up being right about Miller, maybe I end up being wrong, maybe there's a twist and somehow both sides are right or wrong. It's all interesting to me. 

 

I'm invested, in this particular debate and in the Canucks.

 

As for the narcissism bit, it's just banter really, but I do find it interesting. 

Yeah. I think I read somewhere that management is going to try to sign Miller this summer, but if they can’t, then they’ll attempt to trade him. Can’t go into next season, having your best offensive player unsigned, that’s just a recipe for distraction for the player, and for the team. Don’t need that. Need a good start to the season, because we all know from this season, a bad start can put the team way behind the eight ball. The league is too good, the conference is way too good, for a team to fall behind, and then try to gain ground. 

 

 

[N4ZZY]

Just now, Alflives said:

With Miller we aren't a playoff team.  How are we going to sign Miller and become a better team that can be in the playoffs consistently and compete for Cups?

Alf. I think it really depends on what Miller’s camp is asking, and what management is willing to give. 9.5M? No way. Not unless the term is short, like 3-4 years. 7-8M? Then I’d be okay with 5-6 years. 

 

6M? Sign him to 8 years. 

 

[HKSR]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

With Miller we aren't a playoff team.  How are we going to sign Miller and become a better team that can be in the playoffs consistently and compete for Cups?

I'm going off the record under Boudreau.  

 

22-9-4 over 35 games.  That's almost half a season.  This is no fluke.

[N4ZZY]

Just now, N4ZZY said:

Alf. I think it really depends on what Miller’s camp is asking, and what management is willing to give. 9.5M? No way. Not unless the term is short, like 3-4 years. 7-8M? Then I’d be okay with 5-6 years. 

 

6M? Sign him to 8 years. 

 

With that being said, I still think the most prudent thing to do is to trade Miller for a God-like return. But it doesn’t seem like anyone in the league is biting on that…..yet. That could change obviously tomorrow when there will be less than 24 hours to make a deal happen. 

 

[grandmaster]

2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

With Miller we aren't a playoff team.  How are we going to sign Miller and become a better team that can be in the playoffs consistently and compete for Cups?

What are you saying? Have you seen our record since BB became coach? We are 100% a playoff team WITH Miller 

[aGENT]

13 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

The need? That's a pretty loaded statement. 

 

The same argument? Sure, given the premise is Miller, but the ongoing argument has been pretty fluid on both sides in regards to integrating new information. 

 

Does having a firm stance and engaging in ongoing dialogue equate to being a narcissist? If so, are most forum users narcissists? Where does the line blur between the same argument and the same ongoing theme? Does this extend to those who are optimistic about the playoff chances of the Canucks and those who have continued to be skeptical since Boudreau took over? Because you get a lot of the same arguments happening repeatedly in regards to that theme. 

 

Are you a narcissist if you express a firm argument and position and continue to have ongoing dialogue with me in regards to this topic?  

 

 

What level of narcissism is required for the same guy to keep coming in to the same discussion thread to complain about people discussing a polarizing topic (while adding literally nothing to it)...? 

 

4 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Not as difficult as you think.  How many free agents have panned out for teams lately? How many late 1st round picks have panned out?  Etc etc.  With Miller you gamble on one thing and one thing only, how far will he decline because you know he will be effective and useful for at least another 3 or 4 years.

 

Trade Miller and you gamble multiple times with low odds on all of them:

1. Use of $9m in cap

2. Draft picks 

3. Prospect turning out

 

 

Still far less risk than the odds of Miller even playing up to his $9m contract, let alone surpassing it. Which, if you're being honest, are the only two "good" outcomes. Every other (and more likely) outcome is varying degrees of bad.

 

The odds Miller can't live up to that contract are high.

 

The odds we spend that $9m worse, are low. And it doesn't have to be UFA's, not sure why that's in your head... Look how many good players were had for cheap in trade because good, cap strapped teams can't afford them in recent years. Including how we got Miller in the first place.

 

The odds NONE of the trade returns, turn in useful players, is low.

 

Picks are picks. I don't think anyone is assuming they're large parts of the deal. And they (or the players picked with them) can also be used as trade currency.

[Sean Monahan]

2 hours ago, HKSR said:

You think Winnipeg has an issue with a Wheeler putting up close to an 80pt pace?  He's not the issue.  Scheifele is the one their fans are annoyed with.  Same with Hellebuycks inconsistent play this year.  Not to mention their defensive issues.

It’s more like a 75 point pace, with less than 20 goals and a good chunk of the assists being of the secondary variety. A career high %, in fact. 
 

If the Jets were to explore a Blake Wheeler trade, do you think they’d have to retain, add a sweetener, or take a similar contract back? I do. 

[Provost]

9 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

Yeah. I think I read somewhere that management is going to try to sign Miller this summer, but if they can’t, then they’ll attempt to trade him. Can’t go into next season, having your best offensive player unsigned, that’s just a recipe for distraction for the player, and for the team. Don’t need that. Need a good start to the season, because we all know from this season, a bad start can put the team way behind the eight ball. The league is too good, the conference is way too good, for a team to fall behind, and then try to gain ground. 

 

 

I have been saying that for a while as the drop dead date for either signing or trading.

 

The good news is that there will be a bunch of teams who miss out on big free agent targets that would be lined up July 2nd to trade for Miller.  They will have the added benefit of being able to talk to him about and extension if the want.

 

We should still be able to get an unprotected 2023 1st round pick, a blue chip prospect, and another piece for Miller.

[HKSR]

Just now, aGENT said:

What level of narcissism is required for the same guy to keep coming in to the same discussion thread to complain about people discussing a polarizing topic (while adding literally nothing to it)...? 

 

Still far less risk than the odds of Miller even playing up to his $9m contract, let alone surpassing it. Which, if you're being honest, are the only two "good" outcomes. Every other (and more likely) outcome is varying degrees of bad.

 

The odds Miller can't live up to that contract are high.

 

The odds we spend that $9m worse, are low. And it doesn't have to be UFA's, not sure why that's in your head... Look how many good players were had for cheap in trade because good, cap strapped teams can't afford them in recent years. Including how we got Miller in the first place.

 

The odds NONE of the trade returns, turn in useful players, is low.

 

Picks are picks. I don't think anyone is assuming they're large parts of the deal. And they (or the players picked with them) can also be used as trade currency.

I guess I'm looking at the 22-9-4 record and thinking if Petey, Hughes, Podz, etc take the next step within the next couple years, the Canucks would be an absolute force with Miller, Petey, Bo, and Lamikko down the middle. 

 

To think a handful of those 9 losses were when the team was playing with covid throughout the entire lineup is even more impressive. 

[Dannydog]

I believe i can honestly see and understand both sides to keep or trade JT. He is a beast mode player ,high impact, high emotion plays a tough in your face, grind ya down game and at the same time put up  2PPG , that we as canucks fans haven't seen since ( a poster pointed this out to me and i agree) Kesler (to a lesser degree he wasn't 2ppg guy). We deserve such a player. BUT, do we as a team have the players to push deep into the play offs ATM. Have a solid enough players in Abby to jump up as injuries occur? I do not believe so. I believe we are 2-3 maybe 4 years out especially with new management . Selfishly, i keep JT to enjoy now. Or Trade him for those assets  for the future when we should be ready. These will be Blue chip prospects and players. The kinds other teams know they" don't want to loose" not willing to part with. 

[HKSR]

2 minutes ago, Sean Monahan said:

It’s more like a 75 point pace, with less than 20 goals and a good chunk of the assists being of the secondary variety. A career high %, in fact. 
 

If the Jets were to explore a Blake Wheeler trade, do you think they’d have to retain, add a sweetener, or take a similar contract back? I do. 

Do they need to though?  If I were the Jets, I'd be happy with how Wheeler is contributing.   In fact, the guy that was talked about being moved was Scheifele.

[aGENT]

1 minute ago, HKSR said:

I guess I'm looking at the 22-9-4 record and thinking if Petey, Hughes, Podz, etc take the next step within the next couple years,

Now who's banking on young players improving? 

 

1 minute ago, HKSR said:

the Canucks would be an absolute force with Miller, Petey, Bo, and Lamikko down the middle.

 

To think a handful of those 9 losses were when the team was playing with covid throughout the entire lineup is even more impressive. 

Who's playing D on this future team? Hamonic and Schenn expires next year. Myers the year after.

[HKSR]

Just now, aGENT said:

Now who's banking on young players improving? 

 

Who's playing D on this future team? Hamonic and Schenn expires next year. Myers the year after.

I'm just doing what we all do best, arguing the best case scenario from our perspective 

 

I did a spreadsheet as usual and was able to fit in a 5.5m top 4 RHD in addition to Myers.  Schenn or Burroughs was 3rd pair RHD.

[BPA]

2 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Now who's banking on young players improving? 

 

Who's playing D on this future team? Hamonic and Schenn expires next year. Myers the year after.

The next UFA D getting the Myers special of $6M x 6yrs.

[HKSR]

1 minute ago, BPA said:

The next UFA D getting the Myers special of $6M x 6yrs.

Yes! His name will be Erik Cernak.