[Rumour] Boeser On Block

[LegionOfDoom]

1 hour ago, mll said:

 

Chayka's work was apparently not recognised by the analytics community.  

 

Drance tweets:  "Unlike Dellow, Tulsky, Metcalf, Parnass and co. Chayka didn't publish publicly. His statistical work wasn't reviewed in academic circles or by the online community. Hockey's statistical analyst community has tended to be deeply skeptical of black box work."

 

Analytics gets blown up and then it’s “oh that wasn’t the proper way of using analytics” 

[stawns]

4 minutes ago, BPA said:

Is Nashville still a defenceman factory?  If so, then make the trade.  Build from the net out.  The Canucks D is horrendous.

I'd do Tomasino, Prokop and a first in a heartbeat. 

 

Tomasino is already an NHL C at 20 and Prokop is a very big body, mobile dman who is more on the defensive side.  As Petey and Tomadino emerge, Horvat can focus on being the solid two way C he is without the pressure of having to be a top producer of offense.

 

Or, Tomasino makes Petey expendable at the end of his deal.

[hammertime]

Just now, aGENT said:

Completely agree. I think management is using the media and TDL as a pressure point to extend Boeser for cheap. But if not...

 

Miller, IMO is already gone.

That may be true. 

 

We will see if Brock really wants to stay or not. IMO he hasn't earned a raise if he won't sign for 6 mill and not a penny more then he's not helping you win. Connor Garland is a better player by every metric other than goals and is signed fairly at 5M. Connor sitting at 29 points Brock 28 with what 2 more goals. Brock with all that sweet 1st unit PP time, top line 5 on 5 Ozone deployment. Garly is gutting his points out 5v5. Is Brock a 2million better player? Nah he aint. Period.  

[rekker]

11 minutes ago, BPA said:

Is Nashville still a defenceman factory?  If so, then make the trade.  Build from the net out.  The Canucks D is horrendous.

I'd trade Brock and our first for whoever is in charge of drafting dmen in Nashville. Lol. Aside from Hughes,  you need to go a long ways back to find a legit, stud dman drafted by the Canucks. 

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, hammertime said:

That may be true. 

 

We will see if Brock really wants to stay or not. IMO he hasn't earned a raise if he won't sign for 6 mill and not a penny more then he's not helping you win. Connor Garland is a better player by every metric other than goals and is signed fairly at 5M. Connor sitting at 29 points Brock 28 with what 2 more goals. Brock with all that sweet 1st unit PP time, top line 5 on 5 Ozone deployment. Garly is gutting his points out 5v5. Is Brock a 2million better player? Nah he aint. Period.  

Brock plays a game that will definitely translate into his later years.  I'd be happy with an 8 year 50 million dollar deal to keep him.  He'd be 33 when it's done.  So we would have him locked up through his best years.  Garland is locked up at a great number too.  That's our top two right wingers for about 11 million.  Excellent value.  Then, with Petey and Bo we have two really good centers at value too.  Pods and Hogs on the left side, and we are looking good.  We need bottom six guys who don't cost an arm and a leg and play mean. A Miller trade can go a long way to helping with that.  The D is a mess.  Hughes and ?????

[IBatch]

6 minutes ago, rekker said:

I'd trade Brock and our first for whoever is in charge of drafting dmen in Nashville. Lol. Aside from Hughes,  you need to go a long ways back to find a legit, stud dman drafted by the Canucks. 

Edler.   And he's almost retired. 

[aGENT]

16 minutes ago, hammertime said:

That may be true. 

 

We will see if Brock really wants to stay or not. IMO he hasn't earned a raise if he won't sign for 6 mill and not a penny more then he's not helping you win. Connor Garland is a better player by every metric other than goals and is signed fairly at 5M. Connor sitting at 29 points Brock 28 with what 2 more goals. Brock with all that sweet 1st unit PP time, top line 5 on 5 Ozone deployment. Garly is gutting his points out 5v5. Is Brock a 2million better player? Nah he aint. Period.  

Thing is, an under contract Boeser is probably worth more than a pending RFA, $7.5m QO Boeser.

 

We can always still trade him in a season or two, even if we extend him.

 

I'm not really interested in selling low on him, if he and his agent are willing to extend to team friendly terms.

[hammertime]

6 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Thing is, an under contract Boeser is probably worth more than a pending RFA, $7.5m QO Boeser.

 

We can always still trade him in a season or two, even if we extend him.

 

I'm not really interested in selling low on him, if he and his agent are willing to extend to team friendly terms.

This doesn't make any sense you'd prefer to sell even lower on Boeser after signing him to a contract he ain't worth? 

 

Team friendly terms? For me its 6m or C ya.

Edited February 20, 2022 by hammertime

[stawns]

8 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Thing is, an under contract Boeser is probably worth more than a pending RFA, $7.5m QO Boeser.

 

We can always still trade him in a season or two, even if we extend him.

 

I'm not really interested in selling low on him, if he and his agent are willing to extend to team friendly terms.

Or he continues to decline and you get nothing for him.  I'd rather just cut bait and move on

[mll]

39 minutes ago, LegionOfDoom said:

Analytics gets blown up and then it’s “oh that wasn’t the proper way of using analytics” 

Again, Chayka is using concepts that are not recognised by the analytics community.  

 

The top teams have all heavily invested in analytics and adjusted their roster accordingly.  Tampa even won back-to-back Cups leaning on analytics to identify the holes in their roster but also the weakness/strength of their opponents.  Carolina has Tulsky as their AGM - he came from the analytics community.  Even Trotz credits analytics for finally winning a Cup and says he uses it to improve his coaching.  Boudreau himself went to the analytics department to set his lines in Minnesota and admits that he looks at numbers after games.

 

[hammertime]

23 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Brock plays a game that will definitely translate into his later years.  I'd be happy with an 8 year 50 million dollar deal to keep him.  

The league is getting faster Brock is not. 

[J-Dizzle]

21 minutes ago, stawns said:

Or he continues to decline and you get nothing for him.  I'd rather just cut bait and move on

Funny that the guy who has been pushing moving Boeser for a few years would post this…. Ironically his numbers and play have remained fairly consistent the majority of that time. 

[stawns]

1 minute ago, J-Dizzle said:

Funny that the guy who has been pushing moving Boeser for a few years would post this…. Ironically his numbers and play have remained fairly consistent the majority of that time. 

And what have I said all along?  I have no issue with boeser, just what they're going to have to pay him.  I advocated moving him before signing his current deal knowing full well how it was going to go........and it did

[J-Dizzle]

3 minutes ago, stawns said:

And what have I said all along?  I have no issue with boeser, just what they're going to have to pay him.  I advocated moving him before signing his current deal knowing full well how it was going to go........and it did

He’s been fine on his current deal. I guess you have a crystal ball that tells you how much his next one will be? 

[mll]

1 hour ago, stawns said:

I'd do Tomasino, Prokop and a first in a heartbeat. 

 

Tomasino is already an NHL C at 20 and Prokop is a very big body, mobile dman who is more on the defensive side.  As Petey and Tomadino emerge, Horvat can focus on being the solid two way C he is without the pressure of having to be a top producer of offense.

 

Or, Tomasino makes Petey expendable at the end of his deal.

More the reason for Nashville to keep him.   Poile explained that they are looking to get younger.  They've retained a few vets to help that transition.  They'll probably try and extend Forsberg.  

[Jayinblack]

1 hour ago, stawns said:

I'd do Tomasino, Prokop and a first in a heartbeat. 

 

Tomasino is already an NHL C at 20 and Prokop is a very big body, mobile dman who is more on the defensive side.  As Petey and Tomadino emerge, Horvat can focus on being the solid two way C he is without the pressure of having to be a top producer of offense.

 

Or, Tomasino makes Petey expendable at the end of his deal.

Id do that deal too. Would love to get Tomasino +

[stawns]

10 minutes ago, mll said:

More the reason for Nashville to keep him.   Poile explained that they are looking to get younger.  They've retained a few vets to help that transition.  They'll probably try and extend Forsberg.  

I don't believe it for a second.........Nashville has been the bridesmaid for 15 years, they want to win and win now.  They'll see Calgary loading up, if the Avs get giroux they'll have to make a move of some kind.

[mll]

17 minutes ago, stawns said:

I don't believe it for a second.........Nashville has been the bridesmaid for 15 years, they want to win and win now.  They'll see Calgary loading up, if the Avs get giroux they'll have to make a move of some kind.

Listening to Poile's interviews I don't think they are all in.  He is surprised how well they are doing this season and talks of how pleased he has been with young players like Tomasino.  Poile is typically very transparent on their plans and where he thinks they are at.  Don't see them at all moving Tomasino or a 1st.  Maybe Tolvanen - talks of how he hasn't scored as they expected but has been really good away from the puck.  

 

Edited February 20, 2022 by mll

[stawns]

14 minutes ago, mll said:

Listening to Poile's interviews I don't think they are all in.  He is surprised how well they are doing this season and talks of how pleased he has been with young players like Tomasino.  Poile is typically very transparent on their plans and where he thinks they are at.  Don't see them at all moving Tomasino or a 1st.  Maybe Tolvanen - talks of how he hasn't scored as they expected but has been really good away from the puck.  

 

And I think if they see teams in the west load up, they'll follow suit.  Poile is at the tail end of his career and has nothing to show for it

[mll]

2 hours ago, rekker said:

I'd trade Brock and our first for whoever is in charge of drafting dmen in Nashville. Lol. Aside from Hughes,  you need to go a long ways back to find a legit, stud dman drafted by the Canucks. 

Poile a few years ago says that in his mind nothing is more important than skating speed.  If he still feels that way it might be hard to convince him to trade for Boeser.  Their priority is also to extend Forsberg.  

 

Part of that is development.  Nashville thinks it takes at least 4 years to develop Ds if not longer.  Carrier who is now a legit top-4 for them even went through waivers several times before making the team full time (- was part of the taxi squad and it's on an emergency recall that he showed he was a legit top-4 option). 

 

Nashville works with players as soon as they get drafted.  They want them to adopt NHL habits from the start on everything - off ice but also how they play the game.  They have even set up an internal website where every prospect can log in and see clips of his shifts broken down with suggestions for improvement.  They don't comment on systems and uniquely on technique.  There's weekly contact if not more.  Fabbro was working with them right from the start.  Boeser said he appreciated that Vancouver left him in peace during College - don't know how it was with Hughes.

 

It sounds like Rutherford will be doing the same as Nashville.  He talked of adding to the player development team and how prospects will be handed to them straight after being drafted.

 

Edited February 20, 2022 by mll