(proposal) Re-tool (Miller, Boeser, Horvat)

[BCNate]

I don't usually make proposals here, but I am so sick of watching our best players not produce.  Horvat, Boeser and EP's lack of production are the biggest reasons we are in this spot.  

 

5x5

Boeser 3 goals/2 assists/5 points in 17 games

Horvat  5/4/9 in 20 games

EP 0/3/3 in 20 games

Think about that EP line for a bit....he is supposed to be elite.

 

Anyway, here are my proposals to re tool and hopefully get us competitive in the next few years:

 

JT MIller @ 50% to the Leafs for Liljegeren, Amirov, 1st, Kerfoot

Horvat @ 50% to NYR for Schneider 2022 1st

Boeser + Rathbone to Minn for Fiala + Addison

 

Run with:

Hoglander EP Fiala

Podkolzin Kerfoot Garland

Pearson Dickinon Motte

Chiasson Lammiko Lockwood

 

That top 6 is outproducing what we currently have.  Bottom of the lineup is ugly, but would have room for some waiver claims  and to work guys like Lockwood, Petan DiGuiseppe, Dowling and McDonaugh after the NCAA Season.

 

Why I do this:

1) We need change

2) Miller@ 2.6 mil for 2 years is dollar for dollar as good as any value in the league, he is a game changing piece for a contender.  Leafs add a huge piece without losing much off of their roster. We get a quality RD prospect who is near NHL ready, as  well as a solid near NHL Ready Russian Winger, a replacement for Horvat in the short term, and a late 1st.  This free up lots of cap space following the 2022/3 season.

3) Horvat is a great fit in the NYR top 6, and great value at 2.75 for 2 years. We get an excellent RD prospect, who I feel fills a huge organizational need and a 1st.

4) Boeser goes home to Minnesota, They get a better fit for their lineup than Fiala and a LD prospect.  We get a change of scenery and solid winger and a RD Prospect.

5) Ultimately I don't know that we are much worse after these trades than we are now for this year, we will get a top 10 pick as well.  We come out of this with 3 RD Prospects,  a solid Russian prospect, 2 late firsts, a replacement for Boeser and a downgraded Horvat.  Also leaves us significant money in 2 years time.

 

Our 2023/4 lineup would look like this:

 

Top 6 of Fiala, Hoglander, EP, Garland, Podkolzin, XXX

Bottom 6 of Pearson, Dickinson, Greenway, XXX, XXX, XXX

LD:  Hughes, OEL

RD: Hamonic and Schenn walk, Buyout Poolman, Bury Myers, or trade with a sweetener and retention for his last year.

Goalie: Demko, DiPietro

Prospects: Klimovich, Amirov,  Addison, Liljegren, Scneider, Woo would all be ready or close.  We would also be adding 4 1st round picks to that pool.

UFA/Trades: We would have a ton of space to any missing pieces.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 26, 2021 by BCNate

[nuckin_futz]

12 minutes ago, BCNate said:

I don't usually make proposals here, but I am so sick of watching our best players not produce.  Horvat, Boeser and EP's lack of production are the biggest reasons we are in this spot.  

 

5x5

Boeser 3 goals/2 assists/5 points in 17 games

Horvat  5/4/9 in 20 games

EP 0/3/3 in 20 games

Think about that EP line for a bit....he is supposed to be elite.

EP's stat line is 3-7-10 in 20 GP

[BCNate]

3 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said:

EP's stat line is 3-7-10 in 20 GP

(5x5)

[mll]

.

 

Edited November 26, 2021 by mll

[nergish]

19 minutes ago, BCNate said:

I don't usually make proposals here, but I am so sick of watching our best players not produce.  Horvat, Boeser and EP's lack of production are the biggest reasons we are in this spot.  

 

5x5

Boeser 3 goals/2 assists/5 points in 17 games

Horvat  5/4/9 in 20 games

EP 0/3/3 in 20 games

Think about that EP line for a bit....he is supposed to be elite.

 

Anyway, here are my proposals to re tool and hopefully get us competitive in the next few years:

 

JT MIller @ 50% to the Leafs for Liljegeren, Amirov, 1st, Kerfoot

Horvat @ 50% to NYR for Schneider 2022 1st

Boeser + Rathbone to Minn for Fiala + Addison

 

Run with:

Hoglander EP Fiala

Podkolzin Kerfoot Garland

Pearson Dickinon Motte

Chiasson Lammiko Greenway

 

That top 6 is outproducing what we currently have.  Bottom of the lineup is ugly, but would have room for some waiver claims  and to work guys like Lockwood, Petan DiGuiseppe, Dowling and McDonaugh after the NCAA Season.

 

Why I do this:

1) We need change

2) Miller@ 2.6 mil for 2 years is dollar for dollar as good as any value in the league, he is a game changing piece for a contender.  Leafs add a huge piece without losing much off of their roster. We get a quality RD prospect who is near NHL ready, as  well as a solid near NHL Ready Russian Winger, a replacement for Horvat in the short term, and a late 1st.  This free up lots of cap space following the 2022/3 season.

3) Horvat is a great fit in the NYR top 6, and great value at 2.75 for 2 years. We get an excellent RD prospect, who I feel fills a huge organizational need and a 1st.

4) Boeser goes home to Minnesota, They get a better fit for their lineup than Fiala and a LD prospect.  We get a change of scenery and solid winger and a RD Prospect.

5) Ultimately I don't know that we are much worse after these trades than we are now for this year, we will get a top 10 pick as well.  We come out of this with 3 RD Prospects,  a solid Russian prospect, 2 late firsts, a replacement for Boeser and a downgraded Horvat.  Also leaves us significant money in 2 years time.

 

Our 2023/4 lineup would look like this:

 

Top 6 of Fiala, Hoglander, EP, Garland, Podkolzin, XXX

Bottom 6 of Pearson, Dickinson, Greenway, XXX, XXX, XXX

LD:  Hughes, OEL

RD: Hamonic and Schenn walk, Buyout Poolman, Bury Myers, or trade with a sweetener and retention for his last year.

Goalie: Demko, DiPietro

Prospects: Klimovich, Amirov,  Addison, Liljegren, Scneider, Woo would all be ready or close.  We would also be adding 4 1st round picks to that pool.

UFA/Trades: We would have a ton of space to any missing pieces.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Greenway comes up in your lineup, but I don't see him in the original proposal...

 

Anyways, I think I would probably do all of those trades - which also probably means they wouldn't happen.

 

Having our own first, and two more... plus restocking the cupboards... we'd have no problem putting together a package to then move up in the draft and take Shane Wright. There's your 3C next year as well, and potential franchise building block.

 

[BCNate]

4 minutes ago, Miller9 said:

You like smurfs or what? I am not debating we need a change, I posted in another thread, to move Bo and Boeser. I would not trade Miller, he is our best player, has size, uses it, and plays with immense heart and intensity, we need more Miller type players not less.

 

Your trade for Bo is low, we would get alot more. He's highly valued in the league. A big 2way center, who puts up 60 pts and is great at draws and is a captain? A first and prospect is underselling him

 

Miller trade - again, I would never trade him, but if we do, that return is blech. Kerfoot is small, slow and a fringe 2nd liner. Llilegrin is in the AHL and not in the Leafs plans, their first is basically a second, and we would have to take back Salary as they are up against the Cap. If you're moving our best player and best leader, heart and soul who's on a hell of a contract, we better be getting a potential 1/2c back or a winger with hands and size, like him, and a first.

 

Boeser -  Fiali is smaller but is a pretty consistent 20 goal man. You're giving up Boeser's upside but I guess that's why Addison is there but Addison is small too. Personally, I would like a trade like this IF, the RD coming back was young and big.

 

 

I don't want to trade Miller either, but I see little  chance of his signing up for a re tool/Re build when his next deal is due.  We really have 4 choices for him: 1) Incentivize him to stay with an above market deal 2)l et him walk for nothing 3) trade him this year 4) or trade him next year. You get the most value by doing it this year. 

 

Horvat is not a 2 way centre.  He does not PK,  and is not strong defensively.  Yes, he is built like a Gorilla, but is not physical.  He has hit 60 points once, and been on pace for 60 once more, in 7 years.  Yes,  he is a captain, but a good one?  that remains to be seen. Schneider is one of the best drafted RD prospects with legit top pairing potential, and the 1st is likely to be in the 18-22 range.  I take that deal running away. 

[BCNate]

14 minutes ago, nergish said:

Greenway comes up in your lineup, but I don't see him in the original proposal...

 

Anyways, I think I would probably do all of those trades - which also probably means they wouldn't happen.

 

Having our own first, and two more... plus restocking the cupboards... we'd have no problem putting together a package to then move up in the draft and take Shane Wright. There's your 3C next year as well, and potential franchise building block.

 

I was torn between adding Greenway or Addison,  I forgot to take out Greenway.

[VegasCanuck]

I thought this was going to be the trade Boeser, Horvat and Miller for picks and prospects and claim Gaudette as our new 1st line center thread.

 

Sorry for the interruption, carry on, I'll leave now...

[King Heffy]

The only thing of any value from the Laffs in that proposal is the draft pick.  Liljegren is a huge liability in his own zone and can't even crack a blueline where the only NHLers are Muzzin and Brodie.

Edited November 26, 2021 by King Heffy

[Patel Bure]

2 hours ago, BCNate said:

I don't usually make proposals here, but I am so sick of watching our best players not produce.  Horvat, Boeser and EP's lack of production are the biggest reasons we are in this spot.  

 

5x5

Boeser 3 goals/2 assists/5 points in 17 games

Horvat  5/4/9 in 20 games

EP 0/3/3 in 20 games

Think about that EP line for a bit....he is supposed to be elite.

 

Anyway, here are my proposals to re tool and hopefully get us competitive in the next few years:

 

JT MIller @ 50% to the Leafs for Liljegeren, Amirov, 1st, Kerfoot

Horvat @ 50% to NYR for Schneider 2022 1st

Boeser + Rathbone to Minn for Fiala + Addison

 

Run with:

Hoglander EP Fiala

Podkolzin Kerfoot Garland

Pearson Dickinon Motte

Chiasson Lammiko Lockwood

 

That top 6 is outproducing what we currently have.  Bottom of the lineup is ugly, but would have room for some waiver claims  and to work guys like Lockwood, Petan DiGuiseppe, Dowling and McDonaugh after the NCAA Season.

 

Why I do this:

1) We need change

2) Miller@ 2.6 mil for 2 years is dollar for dollar as good as any value in the league, he is a game changing piece for a contender.  Leafs add a huge piece without losing much off of their roster. We get a quality RD prospect who is near NHL ready, as  well as a solid near NHL Ready Russian Winger, a replacement for Horvat in the short term, and a late 1st.  This free up lots of cap space following the 2022/3 season.

3) Horvat is a great fit in the NYR top 6, and great value at 2.75 for 2 years. We get an excellent RD prospect, who I feel fills a huge organizational need and a 1st.

4) Boeser goes home to Minnesota, They get a better fit for their lineup than Fiala and a LD prospect.  We get a change of scenery and solid winger and a RD Prospect.

5) Ultimately I don't know that we are much worse after these trades than we are now for this year, we will get a top 10 pick as well.  We come out of this with 3 RD Prospects,  a solid Russian prospect, 2 late firsts, a replacement for Boeser and a downgraded Horvat.  Also leaves us significant money in 2 years time.

 

Our 2023/4 lineup would look like this:

 

Top 6 of Fiala, Hoglander, EP, Garland, Podkolzin, XXX

Bottom 6 of Pearson, Dickinson, Greenway, XXX, XXX, XXX

LD:  Hughes, OEL

RD: Hamonic and Schenn walk, Buyout Poolman, Bury Myers, or trade with a sweetener and retention for his last year.

Goalie: Demko, DiPietro

Prospects: Klimovich, Amirov,  Addison, Liljegren, Scneider, Woo would all be ready or close.  We would also be adding 4 1st round picks to that pool.

UFA/Trades: We would have a ton of space to any missing pieces.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I like your Horvat proposal.

 

I would do something similar with JT Miller.  Liljegren is bloody useless and so I don’t like that TO deal. 
 

I don’t like Fiala so no to that Boeser deal.  Explore a different option.

[TNucks1]

fine with parting ways with miller and boeser but i'd rather keep horvat, he could PK pretty well if he ever was given the chance.

[BCNate]

22 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

The only thing of any value from the Laffs in that proposal is the draft pick.  Liljegren is a huge liability in his own zone and can't even crack a blueline where the only NHLers are Muzzin and Brodie.

With all due respect, Liljegren is having a very good season playing 15+ mins a night, and strong advanced stats.  He is no way a liability defensively,  he has done a really good job of  developing that side of his game over the past few seasons.  He is 22 with some very good upside.  He would be our 3rd pairing RD right now.

 

Amiriov has a ton of value.  Whether you rank him above or below Podkolzin as a prospect, he is absolutely in that tier. He was a top 15 pick, and has certainly played to that level so far.  I think he has genuine top 6 potential.  I was torn between him and Robertson, but added him due to Robertsons size.

 

I hate all things Leafs, probably more than the next guy, but they do have some assets that would really help this team in the long run.  

[King Heffy]

15 minutes ago, BCNate said:

With all due respect, Liljegren is having a very good season playing 15+ mins a night, and strong advanced stats.  He is no way a liability defensively,  he has done a really good job of  developing that side of his game over the past few seasons.  He is 22 with some very good upside.  He would be our 3rd pairing RD right now.

I've seen him play.  He can't play a lick of defense whatsoever and would be lucky to crack Abbotsford's lineup.  Advanced stats are not a substitute for understanding the sport.  

Edited November 26, 2021 by King Heffy

[Zhukini]

1 hour ago, TNucks1 said:

fine with parting ways with miller and boeser but i'd rather keep horvat, he could PK pretty well if he ever was given the chance.

Horvat was given the chance and did NOT pk well. That's why he's not given any leashing doing it anymore. 

[Provost]

No thanks to any of those guys aside from

Schneider.

 

We are soft and easy to play against, it comes up over and over again by ex NHL analysts about how fun we are to play against.  I don’t mind losing as long as the opposition feels like they were in a game.

 

We want big guys back, preferably ones that can skate and are a little mean.

 

We have Petterson, Garland, Motte, Rathbone, and Hughes as smaller/lighter players.  We need to find big bodies to surround them with.

 

Good big players beat good small players every time. 

[Wolfgang Durst]

TO VAN: Fiala + 2nd round pick

TO MIN:  Boeser

I would do this in a heartbeat. I mean there was interest from Minnesota to get Boeser in the past, even though that this interest was expressed by Guerin's predecessor. I can imagine that Boeser wants a change of scenery to get back on track.

 

I m a huge Fiala fan , especially after watching this video: - great work ethic, highl skilled player, knows how finish, great shot, good skater, creative with the puck and after he

was traded from NSH to MIN he has been developing really, really well.

Just watch this video, such a humble guy with a great personality:

 

 

[Wolfgang Durst]

5 hours ago, Provost said:

No thanks to any of those guys aside from

Schneider.

 

We are soft and easy to play against, it comes up over and over again by ex NHL analysts about how fun we are to play against.  I don’t mind losing as long as the opposition feels like they were in a game.

 

We want big guys back, preferably ones that can skate and are a little mean.

 

We have Petterson, Garland, Motte, Rathbone, and Hughes as smaller/lighter players.  We need to find big bodies to surround them with.

 

Good big players beat good small players every time. 

true, so true. I mentioned it earlier in a post that I don't like how this team is build. How many times Jim said he wants to add size and strength to the team, especially on D ? Just look at our D: OEL, Hughes, Burroughs, Poolman, Hunt, Rathbone- none is a physical type of player. If you want to be successful you have to have big, strong physical D-Man like Mc Nabb in Vegas, Parayko in St. Louis, Seider in Detroit, Hedman in Tampa, and so on. Travis  wants the team to be a team  that's hard to play against, but when you look at the players in the line-up there 's obviously a lack of toughness, physicality and size.

This franchise needs change. Jim had 7 years to build a legitimate contender and he miserably failed to accomplish this goal. In fact it's a monumental failure from Jim Benning.

[Provost]

3 hours ago, Wolfgang Durst said:

true, so true. I mentioned it earlier in a post that I don't like how this team is build. How many times Jim said he wants to add size and strength to the team, especially on D ? Just look at our D: OEL, Hughes, Burroughs, Poolman, Hunt, Rathbone- none is a physical type of player. If you want to be successful you have to have big, strong physical D-Man like Mc Nabb in Vegas, Parayko in St. Louis, Seider in Detroit, Hedman in Tampa, and so on. Travis  wants the team to be a team  that's hard to play against, but when you look at the players in the line-up there 's obviously a lack of toughness, physicality and size.

This franchise needs change. Jim had 7 years to build a legitimate contender and he miserably failed to accomplish this goal. In fact it's a monumental failure from Jim Benning.

He says he wants size and some bite... then everyone he signs doesn't have it.  I know it is harder to do, but add one guy at a time until you build that sort of roster.

 

[BPA]

Re-tool from the net out.

 

Keep Demko.

 

Keep QH and OEL.  Everybody else needs to go.  Maybe keep Hamonic (for now) as QH still needs a Defensive D to pair up with.  Need to land a true #1 stud D (like Hedman) preferably RHD.

 

Keep Podz & Hogz & Garland & Motte.  They at least hustle.  Everyone else can go for a kings ransom.  No more floaters.  I would like to keep Miller and Horvat but just think they will walk in a couple of years (cuz we are rebuilding / retooling).

 

Get some depth bottom six wingers that can actually PK and HIT.  Also willing to muck it up if need be.  And bottom 6 C that have high faceoff % (one RH and one LH).

 

Meh.  Me just ranting.

 

 

[Canuck Luck]

23 hours ago, BCNate said:

 

JT MIller @ 50% to the Leafs for Liljegeren, Amirov, 1st, Kerfoot

Horvat @ 50% to NYR for Schneider 2022 1st

Boeser + Rathbone to Minn for Fiala + Addison

 

 

 

The whole proposal is a fail. NHL teams do not trade really good players and retain.