MeanSeanBean Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 17 minutes ago, copperlynx said: Keep EP, Hughes, Bo, and Kuz as a core. Everyone else on the market for draft picks or prospects. Buyouts for negative values. That's that major surgery to me. Sounds good. Now we just gotta find a flux capacitor and go back in time before we signed Miller to his retirement contract. Better yet, let's go all the way back before the OEL trade, just for good measure. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanSeanBean Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 Just now, canuck73_3 said: They can also be moved for expiring cap hits and the team can acquire needed pieces in FA or other trades. There are ways to keep Bo AND do major surgery. Up to JR and PA to decide what way to go. But of course! Solve the problem through free agency, that's never backfired before. I disagree, I don't think there is. Guess we'll find out before March 3rd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Shayster007 said: But of course! Solve the problem through free agency, that's never backfired before. I disagree, I don't think there is. Guess we'll find out before March 3rd. More teams are built and put over the top through free agency, than just the draft alone. Also they have already said they’re not doing a full rebuild so you’re only riling yourself up expecting one when it is not going to happen. Edited January 28, 2023 by canuck73_3 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4ZZY Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 7 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said: More teams are built and put over the top through free agency, than just the draft alone. Also the have already said they’re not doing a full rebuild so you’re only riling yourself up expecting one when it is not going to happen. Yeah. It's pretty clear that what the fanbase wants, and what management has said are two different things. Management isn't going to go full rebuild, but they're going to attempt to tweak the roster and make changes and bring in players that will play the style of hockey management wants to see, and they believe that Tocchet and his staff can get them there (we'll see if they can). But without a rehauling of the defense, I just don't see how that's possible. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 (edited) 36 minutes ago, N4ZZY said: Yeah. It's pretty clear that what the fanbase wants, and what management has said are two different things. Management isn't going to go full rebuild, but they're going to attempt to tweak the roster and make changes and bring in players that will play the style of hockey management wants to see, and they believe that Tocchet and his staff can get them there (we'll see if they can). But without a rehauling of the defense, I just don't see how that's possible. Having another Jim and his flunky GM go on and on about retooling just doesn't resonate with me at all. We'll see what they can actually accomplish but if we continue to tread water for the foreseeable future I question what kind of future will exist in Vancouver. They can go on about this and that but in the end if the results aren't there they'll be kicked to the curb and someone else will be brought in to spout off about retools. Alf may sound like a broken record at times but he's probably right about ownership being what gets in the way of an actual rebuild. We'll just have to wait and see how the next few seasons go, we've waited this long I suppose. Edited January 28, 2023 by Coconuts 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 1 hour ago, Shayster007 said: With what cap space and assets are you suggesting we use to make other moves that would equate to major surgery? They will move Myers in the summer which frees up $6 million. Boeser will be moved which frees up another $6.65 million. There are rumours that Demko will be traded. That’s another $5 million. Garland is another possibility. That’s another $5 million. Obviously, if they trade Horvat they don’t have to commit to him next year, which frees up the $8 million they would have used to sign him. A buyout for OEL is on the table as well which will free up another $7 million for next year. Signing Kuzemnko and Miller keeps a core group around which includes Petey and Hughes. You can argue that those aren’t the players that should be kept, but that is what management has decided. But to your point, major surgery can still be done even with the re-signing of Miller and Kuzmenko… 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, N4ZZY said: I think like another poster was saying that the major surgery doesn't necessarily have to be on the forwards (though I do see Garland, Brock moving on) but on the backend. I can't see OEL coming back (buyout), and if I had to guess, I'm going to guess that management's going to bring more grit to the backend than what we currently have right now. Schenn could very well come back in a lesser role than what he's used to playing here in Van this year. I think it's at least 50% that OEL is bought out this summer. The $7 million in freed up cap space for next year would be huge. JR's contract is up after next year, so if things don't work out the remaining buyout years will be on the new guy to figure out. The reason I have the buyout at only 50% is because I am not sure that Aquilini will approve it. If he does I put it at closer to 90%. Imagine if we bought out OEL and were able to trade Myers. $13 million in cap space instantly created in the summer. We could completely redo our defence with that money. I'd go hard after Ryan Graves in free agency to anchor the 2nd pairing. Damon Severson could be another guy. That would make a great 2nd pairing. Carson Soucy is another guy. Scott Mayfield is another free agent who's a RHD. We could also trade for some Dmen with all that extra cap room. Lots of possibilities... Edited January 28, 2023 by Elias Pettersson 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 5 hours ago, DeNiro said: Agreed. The plan would still be to overhaul half our D (at least), our entire bottom 6, and probably 1/3 of the top 6. Not to mention a new backup. I would call that pretty major. Tocchet seems to like Joshua and Lazar. And I can see a spot in the bottom 6 for Podkolzin next year. So that's 50% of the bottom 6 right there that we already have. We need a 3C and a 4C badly. We also have our top line all signed up. So we need to work on who is going to play with Miller on the 2nd line. Garland may stick aorund. Boeser and Horvat are surely gone. If we land one of Bedard/Fantilli/Carlsson, that would solve a huge problem for the 2nd line. And of course that leaves the D. A buyout of OEL and a trade of Myers frees up $13 million in cap space for next year. So the possibilities are endless in terms of how we can spend that money to fix the D. We definitely need a veteran backup, no minimum wage AHL goalie should be signed. And if the rumour that Demko is on the trade block is true, then we may need a starter too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawdzukes Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 3 hours ago, N4ZZY said: Yeah. It's pretty clear that what the fanbase wants, and what management has said are two different things. Management isn't going to go full rebuild, but they're going to attempt to tweak the roster and make changes and bring in players that will play the style of hockey management wants to see, and they believe that Tocchet and his staff can get them there (we'll see if they can). But without a rehauling of the defense, I just don't see how that's possible. Yeah it's probably a lot more losing coming. These guys just keep spending to the cap without making sound decisions with the future in mind. The one plan that most assuredly won't work but will still line the owners pocket. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawdzukes Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 2 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: They will move Myers in the summer which frees up $6 million. Boeser will be moved which frees up another $6.65 million. There are rumours that Demko will be traded. That’s another $5 million. Garland is another possibility. That’s another $5 million. Obviously, if they trade Horvat they don’t have to commit to him next year, which frees up the $8 million they would have used to sign him. A buyout for OEL is on the table as well which will free up another $7 million for next year. Signing Kuzemnko and Miller keeps a core group around which includes Petey and Hughes. You can argue that those aren’t the players that should be kept, but that is what management has decided. But to your point, major surgery can still be done even with the re-signing of Miller and Kuzmenko… Didn't you say we were going be awesome this year? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Vanderhoek Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 38 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said: Didn't you say we were going be awesome this year? To be fair the fans and media also thought the team would challenge for a playoff spot. On top of being thrilled to have Miller back etc.......Demko was a key last year with Boudreau's coaching style and he was unable to regain his form from his injury this season ( some suggest he won't be able to ). Most of us had an optimistic view going into the season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 5 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: They will move Myers in the summer which frees up $6 million. Boeser will be moved which frees up another $6.65 million. There are rumours that Demko will be traded. That’s another $5 million. Garland is another possibility. That’s another $5 million. Obviously, if they trade Horvat they don’t have to commit to him next year, which frees up the $8 million they would have used to sign him. A buyout for OEL is on the table as well which will free up another $7 million for next year. Signing Kuzemnko and Miller keeps a core group around which includes Petey and Hughes. You can argue that those aren’t the players that should be kept, but that is what management has decided. But to your point, major surgery can still be done even with the re-signing of Miller and Kuzmenko… I think you summarized the situation well. Any suggestion that the Canucks are status quo is ignoring what management has been saying for months. There are changes coming and I am looking forward to it. Rutherford and Allvin have cut to the chase. What is happening on the ice is not working. As you outlined there is a clear avenue to freeing CAP space that will make a path forward easier and more flexible. Canucks could be a destination phone call from teams needing their CAP space. As per usual many fans verbalize the need for change and then wail about the performance on the ice. What we see on the ice with the existing roster is irrelevant. It is more important what we see after the TDL. Even then the importance will not be the score board (except for tanking) but what we see from the new pieces coming in. The balance of the year is about working with players to establish how the team will create an Identity that can be built around. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 2 hours ago, Mike Vanderhoek said: To be fair the fans and media also thought the team would challenge for a playoff spot. On top of being thrilled to have Miller back etc.......Demko was a key last year with Boudreau's coaching style and he was unable to regain his form from his injury this season ( some suggest he won't be able to ). Most of us had an optimistic view going into the season. Only people who weren’t paying attention. Those of us in objective reality saw a terrible defence and a team with basically the same roster that entirely relied on Demko playing at Vezina calibre to not be in the bottom five last year. Most of the projections outside the market had the team missing the playoffs and at best fighting for a wildcard spot IF literally everything went right for us and wrong for teams we were competing against. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanSeanBean Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 7 hours ago, canuck73_3 said: More teams are built and put over the top through free agency, than just the draft alone. Also they have already said they’re not doing a full rebuild so you’re only riling yourself up expecting one when it is not going to happen. Do you actually think that's true? Building a team and getting the final piece are 2 very different things. No one builds the free agency successfully. No one. And lol, working myself up about things not going to happen eh. Guess we'll see what team Bo finishes the season for. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanSeanBean Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 (edited) 7 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: They will move Myers in the summer which frees up $6 million. Boeser will be moved which frees up another $6.65 million. There are rumours that Demko will be traded. That’s another $5 million. Garland is another possibility. That’s another $5 million. Obviously, if they trade Horvat they don’t have to commit to him next year, which frees up the $8 million they would have used to sign him. A buyout for OEL is on the table as well which will free up another $7 million for next year. Signing Kuzemnko and Miller keeps a core group around which includes Petey and Hughes. You can argue that those aren’t the players that should be kept, but that is what management has decided. But to your point, major surgery can still be done even with the re-signing of Miller and Kuzmenko… In what possible world would trading Demko and keeping Horvat make sense of a team that trying to turn this ship around in short order? The mental gymnastics involved trying to justify keeping this tire fire of a team together is outstanding. Edited January 28, 2023 by Shayster007 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawdzukes Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 3 hours ago, Mike Vanderhoek said: To be fair the fans and media also thought the team would challenge for a playoff spot. On top of being thrilled to have Miller back etc.......Demko was a key last year with Boudreau's coaching style and he was unable to regain his form from his injury this season ( some suggest he won't be able to ). Most of us had an optimistic view going into the season. I could see it coming two years ago myself. It's been a pretty horrible ride. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviewonder20 Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 The most painful years from buying out OEL are 2025-2027 where we have a 4.7 million cap hit for him not being here. If the cap rises significantly, it would be worth it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BPA Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 6 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: I think it's at least 50% that OEL is bought out this summer. The $7 million in freed up cap space for next year would be huge. JR's contract is up after next year, so if things don't work out the remaining buyout years will be on the new guy to figure out. The reason I have the buyout at only 50% is because I am not sure that Aquilini will approve it. If he does I put it at closer to 90%. Imagine if we bought out OEL and were able to trade Myers. $13 million in cap space instantly created in the summer. We could completely redo our defence with that money. I'd go hard after Ryan Graves in free agency to anchor the 2nd pairing. Damon Severson could be another guy. That would make a great 2nd pairing. Carson Soucy is another guy. Scott Mayfield is another free agent who's a RHD. We could also trade for some Dmen with all that extra cap room. Lots of possibilities... I posted on another thread before, but an OEL buyout looks like this… 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jyu Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 8 hours ago, canuck73_3 said: More teams are built and put over the top through free agency, than just the draft alone. Also they have already said they’re not doing a full rebuild so you’re only riling yourself up expecting one when it is not going to happen. Absolutely. It's a misconception to build a cup winner purely through the draft. But in the cap era, the draft is probably the only way you get your core pieces. If you don't have core pieces, free agency is not the right place to build the team in the cap era. I think most fans agree that we have 2, maybe 3 if Demko is back to form. Adding two more pieces through the next two drafts qualifies as a retool rather than a rebuild in my opinion. If we didn't have any core pieces, rebuild would make more sense. Like after 2013 sweep to the Sharks, it was clear that the core was done and the team should have rebuilt. Rebuilding properly between 2014 to 2019 and staying patient and developing the drafted prospects would have net us quite a handsome roster by now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BPA Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 (edited) That’s 8 years of dead cap space from buying out OEL. Only real relief is next year. Then $2M dead cap, followed by near $5M dead cap for the next 2 years, then $2M dead cap again for the rest for 4 years. I recall FA didn’t like buyouts. He didn’t even buyout LE. Edited January 28, 2023 by BPA 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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