[Rumour] Bo Horvat Trade/Contract Talks

[rekker]

24 minutes ago, appleboy said:

Jim made it clear when he got here that a rebuild was never in the picture.  They have tried every year to make the playoffs.  Adding players and trading draft picks.

This is the result.

I don't think JB had  a choice though. Aqua wanted this. Trevor was on board till the twins retired. Then he was punted for wanting a rebuild. JB went along with it to save his job. In my opinion. 

Edited November 29, 2021 by rekker

[Pbhatti00]

26 minutes ago, appleboy said:

Jim made it clear when he got here that a rebuild was never in the picture.  They have tried every year to make the playoffs.  Adding players and trading draft picks.

This is the result.

100% blame the owner on this mess. Owner hired a gm whose strength is scouting and drafting and then decides not to do a rebuild when one was clearly required. 

 

8 years later the team is still mediocre. If we did what LA, Ana, NYR did in 2014 we would be way further ahead and better. 

 

What LA , ANA, NYR have done draft wise since 2017 and are arguably already better than Van:

 

Rangers: Nine 1sts, Four 2nds 
Ducks: Six 1sts, Six 2nds 
Kings: Six 1sts,  Seven 2nds

 

What Van has done since 2014: 

 Seven 1sts, Six 2nds 

 

If the dumbass owner listened to the professional advice Linden and Benning gave to rebuild, we would never be in such a bad spot. 

 

People need to stop blaming coaching and management and start putting the negative attention on ownership. As long as Aqua is running the show, no matter who we bring in management and coach wise, this team won't go anywhere. 

Edited November 29, 2021 by Pbhatti00

[stawns]

22 minutes ago, appleboy said:

Jim made it clear when he got here that a rebuild was never in the picture.  They have tried every year to make the playoffs.  Adding players and trading draft picks.

This is the result.

and now they are at a stage where they have the assets at the NHL level to make NHL moves.  I get it frustrating to see them take a step back, but it happens to a lot of teams as their young players struggle with the weight of responsibility of winning and leadership.  Things aren't nearly as bleak as most here think they are.  They've got a lot of good pieces and things will gel over time.

[stawns]

1 minute ago, rekker said:

I don't think JB had  a choice though. Aqua wanted this. Trevor was on board till the twins retired. Then he was punted for wanting a rebuild. JB went along with it to save his job. In my opinion. 

There's one player left who was here before JB........how is that not a complete rebuild of the roster?

[stawns]

11 minutes ago, Pbhatti00 said:

100% blame the owner on this mess. Owner hired a gm whose strength is scouting and drafting and then decides not to do a rebuild when one was clearly required. 

 

8 years later the team is still mediocre. If we did what LA, Ana, NYR did in 2014 we would be way further ahead and better. 

 

What LA , ANA, NYR have done draft wise since 2017 and are arguably already better than Van:

 

Rangers: Nine 1sts, Four 2nds 
Ducks: Six 1sts, Six 2nds 
Kings: Six 1sts,  Seven 2nds

 

What Van has done since 2014: 

 Seven 1sts, Six 2nds 

 

If the dumbass owner listened to the professional advice Linden and Benning gave to rebuild, we would never be in such a bad spot. 

 

People need to stop blaming coaching and management and start putting the negative attention on ownership. As long as Aqua is running the show, no matter who we bring in management and coach wise, this team won't go anywhere. 

he had nothing to work with after MG.  The best chips he had to play all had NTC's or NMC

[stawns]

13 minutes ago, Pbhatti00 said:

100% blame the owner on this mess. Owner hired a gm whose strength is scouting and drafting and then decides not to do a rebuild when one was clearly required. 

 

8 years later the team is still mediocre. If we did what LA, Ana, NYR did in 2014 we would be way further ahead and better. 

 

What LA , ANA, NYR have done draft wise since 2017 and are arguably already better than Van:

 

Rangers: Nine 1sts, Four 2nds 
Ducks: Six 1sts, Six 2nds 
Kings: Six 1sts,  Seven 2nds

 

What Van has done since 2014: 

 Seven 1sts, Six 2nds 

 

If the dumbass owner listened to the professional advice Linden and Benning gave to rebuild, we would never be in such a bad spot. 

 

People need to stop blaming coaching and management and start putting the negative attention on ownership. As long as Aqua is running the show, no matter who we bring in management and coach wise, this team won't go anywhere. 

the team trended upward every year until covid and this year, that's exactly what they said it would be and exactly what was happening.  They've hit a bump in the road this year, a bump many teams hit at the same point, and they'll need to figure out what moves they have to make to get past this spot and back on track.

 

In the meantime, back away from the ledge a bit

[Sean Monahan]

19 minutes ago, stawns said:

and now they are at a stage where they have the assets at the NHL level to make NHL moves.  I get it frustrating to see them take a step back, but it happens to a lot of teams as their young players struggle with the weight of responsibility of winning and leadership.  Things aren't nearly as bleak as most here think they are.  They've got a lot of good pieces and things will gel over time.

I don’t know if the Canucks can be a similar case study, mostly because they don’t have a Mackinnon, but the Avs were the worst team  in the league by a considerable margin just 4.5 years ago. 3 years after finishing with (I think) 48 points and trading their best player they were a powerhouse. If the real Petey is more like the Petey of the first two years than the last two, we could potentially do something similar. 

[hammertime]

4 hours ago, Patel Bure said:

I would normally agree with this (Miller as well), but do you feel confident that both players will re-sign here on July 1st 2023?  
 

Also, given our current cap restraints, do you expect this team to make it past the first round over these next few years even with a new coach?  (Let alone qualify for the playoffs).   I’m not so sure.

That's something you deal with next year. 

 

Miller sure maximize return but you don't trade the only natural C on the team and have no one to take a draw left.  That irreparable damage far worse than hanging onto Green and JB for half a season past their expiration.

[stawns]

1 minute ago, Sean Monahan said:

I don’t know if the Canucks can be a similar case study, mostly because they don’t have a Mackinnon, but the Avs were the worst team  in the league by a considerable margin just 4.5 years ago. 3 years after finishing with (I think) 48 points and trading their best player they were a powerhouse. If the real Petey is more like the Petey of the first two years than the last two, we could potentially do something similar. 

exactly, though I agree not having a Mack is an issue, but if they continue to sink this year, they'll get a high pick and maybe get lucky in the lottery, for once.

[Me_]

1 minute ago, stawns said:

exactly, though I agree not having a Mack is an issue, but if they continue to sink this year, they'll get a high pick and maybe get lucky in the lottery, for once.

Luck is the derivative of hard work.

Tanking isn’t hard work.

[Sean Monahan]

1 minute ago, stawns said:

exactly, though I agree not having a Mack is an issue, but if they continue to sink this year, they'll get a high pick and maybe get lucky in the lottery, for once.

The more I think about it, the more it seems like wishful thinking that our current guys could stack up to Mackinnon, Rantanen, Landy, and Makar. 

[Bure_of_94]

1 minute ago, Sean Monahan said:

The more I think about it, the more it seems like wishful thinking that our current guys could stack up to Mackinnon, Rantanen, Landy, and Makar. 

It seems like we have “The Poor Man’s version” of all 4 of these guys. And sometimes they even show up. 

[appleboy]

23 minutes ago, stawns said:

and now they are at a stage where they have the assets at the NHL level to make NHL moves.  I get it frustrating to see them take a step back, but it happens to a lot of teams as their young players struggle with the weight of responsibility of winning and leadership.  Things aren't nearly as bleak as most here think they are.  They've got a lot of good pieces and things will gel over time.

I won't be frustrated if they take a step back for two or three years. I expect it .

Let's hope they do it right. Miller and Horvat will be UFA's in 2024. Boeser will want a raise next year. They may need to qualify him. 

They must either know they can lock them down long term or move them. The problem will be fitting them in under a team cap structure. 

If it was up to me I would be looking to turn those three players into a first round pick and  a prospect each . They have the rest of this year and next to get it done. Leaving it until the last year would be unwise 

[KingRaj91]

2 hours ago, stawns said:

I don't see that from Miller, sorry.  I did see Bo in a lot of scrums Las night though.

 

There sure are a lot of people who think slamming sticks, doors and screaming obscenities equates to "leadership" on this board.  The mythology of JT Miller I guess

dude there's literally an example in the post of Miller sticking up for his teammates LOL

[stawns]

7 minutes ago, Me_ said:

Luck is the derivative of hard work.

Tanking isn’t hard work.

and that's why theyve never tanked

[stawns]

1 minute ago, KingRaj91 said:

dude there's literally an example in the post of Miller sticking up for his teammates LOL

he doesn't do it anymore than Bo does is the point

[stawns]

5 minutes ago, appleboy said:

I won't be frustrated if they take a step back for two or three years. I expect it .

Let's hope they do it right. Miller and Horvat will be UFA's in 2024. Boeser will want a raise next year. They may need to qualify him. 

They must either know they can lock them down long term or move them. The problem will be fitting them in under a team cap structure. 

If it was up to me I would be looking to turn those three players into a first round pick and  a prospect each . They have the rest of this year and next to get it done. Leaving it until the last year would be unwise 

I've never seen Boeser as a long term player on this team, nor do I see Miller here long term either.  I think both players will be used to balance out other spots on the roster

[appleboy]

7 minutes ago, Me_ said:

Luck is the derivative of hard work.

Tanking isn’t hard work.

The players never ever tank. They always want to win. Management needs to make moves that are not just for today. That would be short sighted. They need to build towards being a cup contender.  That might mean short term pain.

However, I am not sure that things can get much worse then what you have now . I do not think Jim or Green have been trying to be this bad .       LOL

[Me_]

42 minutes ago, appleboy said:

The players never ever tank. They always want to win. Management needs to make moves that are not just for today. That would be short sighted. They need to build towards being a cup contender.  That might mean short term pain.

However, I am not sure that things can get much worse then what you have now . I do not think Jim or Green have been trying to be this bad .       LOL

Half the team is new and never played together. 
 

You can afford such risk with an Olympic team filled with millionaire superstars.

 

As a young, drafted core trying to figure out life and pro hockey surrounded by players who haven’t bonded yet, that risk is almost insurmountable.

 

They need to get slapped around, embarrassed, shamed so that they bond as a team.

 

Destroying a young team because they’ve stumbled out of the gate is not the answer.

[NHL97OneTimer]

15 hours ago, N4ZZY said:

I mean, what would you get for Brock? He hasn’t produced nearly the way he should. We’d be selling so low on the guy, would be a bad trade right off the bat. He’s going to bounce back, because this level of performance from him isn’t sustainable over the course of the entire 82 game season. 

 

 

Boeser hasn't been consistently $7M+ good.  Not even close.  Has he even been noticeable away from the score sheet?  I don't care if he's in a scoring rut but I want to see him skating like a mofo, checking hard, backchecking and digging for loose pucks more than what I'm seeing.

 

It's a no-win situation unless the unthinkable happens and Boeser signs an extension at a lower price (can they do that)?  Barring that, you either trade him at a low value (but competition will still drive the price up for a Calder Cup finalist who's young) or you sign him huge bucks for the future (which won't be a short contract).  If he was in a $5M/yr contract, you keep him for sure.

 

For a team that has to reassess the core at this point, Brock can't be far from the spotlight.