shiznak Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 22 minutes ago, flat land fish said: Interesting though is if Horvat wants more money than that it will probably have to be for a team that’s rebuilding and has cap space. Which top 10 teams have expiring contracts for centers getting paid 8 Million+ I wouldn’t be surprised if Horvat signed for less than market value on a contender. He’s not going to do that here on a middling bubble team, especially after management did him dirty, in the off-season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucker 67 Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 If it's CAR, I hope it's not Kotkaniemi coming back. I think CAR would like to dump him on the Canucks, but I hope JR doesn't cave. Horvat for Necas and Morrow Let's go... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 16 minutes ago, grandmaster said: This does not make sense…unless they want to genuinely try another offer? It makes a lot of sense. Right now there are a lot of suitors and most of all of them Bo probably won’t extend with. If they give permission, then many of those suitors go away. The best course of action is to keep as many potential teams in the mix and keep getting them to up the offers by playing them against each other. If it gets really close to the deadline and the right deal hasn’t been offered, then they can give permission. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maginator Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 Can't wait till this gets done. Excited for the next chapter! I'd be happy with KotK +, as long as the + is an absolute grade A prospect. 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Odd. Posted January 20, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted January 20, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said: If it's CAR, I hope it's not Kotkaniemi coming back. I think CAR would like to dump him on the Canucks, but I hope JR doesn't cave. Horvat for Necas and Morrow Let's go... First off we ain’t getting Necas. Kotkaniemi coming back is fine. His actual cap hit is $4.8M for the next 8 years, and he’s only 22 years old. He’s struggled a bit but he has genuine top 6 upside as a 2B 3A center, hopefully more. Kotkaniemi would also have to be coming the other way for cap purposes. Kotkaniemi, either Morrow or Nikishin, Drury, and a 2023 1st round pick. Nikishin is a Shea Weber clone, left handed. He’s putting up insane numbers as a defenseman in the KHL and is 21 years old. Edited January 20, 2023 by Odd. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maginator Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 3 minutes ago, Odd. said: First off we ain’t getting Necas. Kotkaniemi coming back is fine. His actual cap hit is $4.8M for the next 8 years, and he’s only 22 years old. He’s struggled a bit but he has genuine top 6 upside as a 2B 3A center, hopefully more. Kotkaniemi would also have to be coming the other way for cap purposes. Kotkaniemi, either Morrow or Nikishin, Drury, and a 2023 1st round pick. Petey can have an expanded role as a surefire 1C. He needs to start taking more draws anyways in order to take that next step. The only way to get better at them is by forcing yourself to. Miller slots in as 2C. KotK 3C. Solid defense and plays with an edge as other have been saying. I really haven't seen much of him outside of the playoffs for the Habs & Canes but from my sample size he could be a good piece for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd. Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 1 minute ago, Maginator said: Petey can have an expanded role as a surefire 1C. He needs to start taking more draws anyways in order to take that next step. The only way to get better at them is by forcing yourself to. Miller slots in as 2C. KotK 3C. Solid defense and plays with an edge as other have been saying. I really haven't seen much of him outside of the playoffs for the Habs & Canes but from my sample size he could be a good piece for us. Yeah, what I like about Kotka is that he’s got size, is a pest, plays physical, and has offensive instincts and upside. He’s defensively responsible as well and hard to imagine he’s still only 22 years old. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucker 67 Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 3 minutes ago, Odd. said: Yeah, what I like about Kotka is that he’s got size, is a pest, plays physical, and has offensive instincts and upside. He’s defensively responsible as well and hard to imagine he’s still only 22 years old. I remember when he injured Petey, took him down with some sort of leglock He does have some size and annoyance to his game. He's also got some skill and being young, who knows what his ceiling is if he's put in the right situation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanSeanBean Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 33 minutes ago, grandmaster said: This does not make sense…unless they want to genuinely try another offer? I think it makes sense. The second you give teams the power to talk to Horvats camp he gets a say in where he goes. It's high risk high reward to allow those discussions, and should only be done if a team offers a trade you want to accept with the contingency that they want to resign him. The second contracts are starting to be discussed teams like Boston, Seattle, Columbus who want to resign Bo know exactly what they are looking at. Bo could just straight up say nope going to FA and now his value is immediately downgraded to a rental. I feel that contract discussion is the last step in trade talk after you have your trade all set up. Then you just gotta hope Horvat wants to go to that team long term. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wai_lai416 Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 3 minutes ago, Odd. said: Yeah, what I like about Kotka is that he’s got size, is a pest, plays physical, and has offensive instincts and upside. He’s defensively responsible as well and hard to imagine he’s still only 22 years old. i still don't get how you guys are in love with a guy that is producing at a rate not even worth half his current contract. almost 5mil for a 30 point guy that's signed to a max term and hope he'll get better? he literally haven't shown any progress in terms of production and will likely be a 30-35 point guy at best.. that's worth 4.8mil? pearson looks like a steal at 3.2mil and garland 40+ points for similar cap. if he's good only 22 signed to 8 years at a good cap.. carolina wouldn't be trying to dump him during the 1st year of a 8 year contract eh? i rather canucks retain 50% on horvat and take on an expiring contract from carolina like a fast + something to balance the cap than to take on a guy that have buy out potential written all over it. if carolina wants to retain 1mil+ on KK then we talk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Vanderhoek Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 23 minutes ago, combover said: The fair price for horvat going back to the summer was 7.5 -8 tram that want to win will se horvat as an upgrade to most #2 centers and will make cap moves. 1000 face off 2nd in the nhl in fo wins = possession plays in all situations Back to back 30 goal years and was a total beast in the very few opportunities he’s had in the post season good size speed and not afraid And honestly I think he’ll take less to play where he’s appreciated/respected and playing in meaningful games. clearly those things won’t be happening here. Thats the problem he is not an 8 million per season player and will have to go to Free Agency to get those numbers when teams bid with money. He has to this point rejected multiple offers from the Canucks. This is where he wants to live and play. He has the respect of the city, the fans, the team and coaches etc. This isn't NHL 23 the video game. His value IS what he has shown in his career to this point. You dont base your offer or a negotiation solely on a player's production during a contract year or one season. So when you hear posters daily say " oh his value went up he scored " or " oh he is an allstar his value jumped again ". No. Agents can twist and suggest values by these accomplishments but his value is already known. He either signs for fair dollars that fit this team where he remains a relied upon go to guy and Captain or he chooses more money and finds another team willing to outbid the Canucks or other. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YearoftheNuck Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 41 minutes ago, -Vintage Canuck- said: That would require careful asset management, something our franchise has historically known very little about. Lol Riding a nine game point streak and an all star selection, his value is likely as high as it’ll get right now. The time to act is now. Target your trade partner, then let them talk extension with Horvat’s camp so that you can hopefully maximize the trade. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kodos Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 31 minutes ago, Maginator said: Petey can have an expanded role as a surefire 1C. He needs to start taking more draws anyways in order to take that next step. The only way to get better at them is by forcing yourself to. Miller slots in as 2C. KotK 3C. Solid defense and plays with an edge as other have been saying. I really haven't seen much of him outside of the playoffs for the Habs & Canes but from my sample size he could be a good piece for us. Miller is terrible at C 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd. Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 So if Horvat is traded before the all star game, who does he represent? The team he was traded for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86Viking Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 42 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said: If it's CAR, I hope it's not Kotkaniemi coming back. I think CAR would like to dump him on the Canucks, but I hope JR doesn't cave. Horvat for Necas and Morrow Let's go... I don't think we get that package back but would be happy if it was offered. Thinking Morrow, 2023 1st and Ryan Suzuki/Jack Drury? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86Viking Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 3 minutes ago, Odd. said: So if Horvat is traded before the all star game, who does he represent? The team he was traded for? He is set to represent the Pacific Division is he not? If traded to an eastern team before all star game I assume they will take the next highet voted player from the pacific division via fan voting to replace Bo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
combover Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Mike Vanderhoek said: Thats the problem he is not an 8 million per season player and will have to go to Free Agency to get those numbers when teams bid with money. He has to this point rejected multiple offers from the Canucks. This is where he wants to live and play. He has the respect of the city, the fans, the team and coaches etc. This isn't NHL 23 the video game. His value IS what he has shown in his career to this point. You dont base your offer or a negotiation solely on a player's production during a contract year or one season. So when you hear posters daily say " oh his value went up he scored " or " oh he is an allstar his value jumped again ". No. Agents can twist and suggest values by these accomplishments but his value is already known. He either signs for fair dollars that fit this team where he remains a relied upon go to guy and Captain or he chooses more money and finds another team willing to outbid the Canucks or other. the offers were crap he’d have been a fool to accept them. they offered him what he watched Louie Erickson do to get paid!! lolololololol less value to the team than boeser. Ha. 7-8 mill is exactly he should sit they offered him LESS a pay cut in the summer you think he felt respected by the franchise hahahahahaha. this illusion that Vancouver is this fabulous place where professional athletes will want to come to play meaningless games for less than they could get on winning team is just to funny. his value is up he’s back to back 30 goal seasons hes once again in the top 5 in fo wins he taken more faceoffs than any other player He’s having a career year just like miller did before getting over paid… so yeah his values up. 5.1 mill or 6 mill isn’t even close to realistic of what horvats worth those offers tell the player he’s not needed here but we’ll keep you if you want to stay. so when other gms call and say we want horvat but since you value him at a 5.1 mill or 6 mill player so the offers should reflect that… huh uh oh that doesn’t sound so good does it. you want a 8 mill player return but for a 5 mill player… Edited January 20, 2023 by combover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 1 hour ago, grandmaster said: This does not make sense…unless they want to genuinely try another offer? This: 57 minutes ago, billabong said: If the offers aren’t good enough why would they let him talk to teams? the Canucks would lose control of the negotiations if the agent started talking to teams Also gives him defacto trade control and alters/reduces the market and hence return. 46 minutes ago, Provost said: It makes a lot of sense. Right now there are a lot of suitors and most of all of them Bo probably won’t extend with. If they give permission, then many of those suitors go away. The best course of action is to keep as many potential teams in the mix and keep getting them to up the offers by playing them against each other. If it gets really close to the deadline and the right deal hasn’t been offered, then they can give permission. Permission to talk extension is something you consider when you've basically got a deal hammered out and agreed upon, the team has offered you extra pieces for the right to do so, and you've spoken to Horvat/his agent on whether it's somewhere they'd seriously consider extending, for something near what the other team considers a reasonable opening offer. Until then, you negotiate based on the teams getting his rights until July. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
combover Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 (edited) That’s the best. the people saying he isn’t an 8 mill player but want a mill8 player return lolololololololol Van values him at 5.1-6 mill I guess the return should reflect a 5-6 mill player. The absolute best will be after he’s traded will be the same people who say he’s not worth 8 mill will be the most upset with the return for the player they valued at 6 mill hahahahahahahahahaha Edited January 20, 2023 by combover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Vintage Canuck- Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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