Report: Canucks fire assistant GM Chris Gear and analytics director Jonathan Wall

[tas]

17 minutes ago, aGENT said:

One of these things is not like the others. The rest of those guys HAD THE DRIVE to have very successful careers in the best league in the world. He did not. 

 

Again, I'm not faulting him for it, it's his prerogative and I'll never think ill of anyone choosing to spend more time/be closer to family. But it does in fact show a lack of drive to be all he can be in his proffession.

or maybe he's just driven towards different priorities?

[WHL rocks]

16 minutes ago, mll said:

 

Ron Francis is an established GM above Botterill.  That's not the structure in Buffalo where Kevyn Adams has very little experience.  Adams is in place because the Pegulas trust him but Karmanos is associate GM not assistant GM as well as GM of Rochester.  Karmanos even brought in Sam Ventura from Pittsburgh.  

Ok...

 

I don't understand what you're trying to say...

 

Are you saying Karmanos would say NO to being GM of the Canucks if JR called him??

[mll]

2 minutes ago, WHL rocks said:

Ok...

 

I don't understand what you're trying to say...

 

Are you saying Karmanos would say NO to being GM of the Canucks if JR called him??

Botterill left for a better opportunity.  Karmanos left because he was fired.  Why would he want to be 2nd to Rutherford when he fired him.  Not sure either that Buffalo would be willing to let him go.  

[Gawdzukes]

13 minutes ago, aGENT said:

One of these things is not like the others. The rest of those guys HAD THE DRIVE to have very successful careers in the best league in the world. He did not. 

 

Again, I'm not faulting him for it, it's his prerogative and I'll never think ill of anyone choosing to spend more time/be closer to family. But it does in fact show a lack of drive to be all he can be in his proffession.

Yep, sports are not like regular jobs where you often choose comfort or location over monetary reward and focus on all around life happiness. Sports is a bet with yourself to be the best you can be, wherever and however that may be it's not always up to you and that's partially why being a pro is so hard. It's definitely a lack of drive in the professional hockey player sense. Not everyone can do it. All the power to him but he definitely didn't put it all out there to excel in his profession even though he's living a very good life at home in Russia with his wife.

[WHL rocks]

6 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

Is Botterill any good of a GM? I’m kind of worried about who our next GM is going to be….

 

 

No need to worry.

 

JR is essentially your new GM.. the guy coming in won't be picking up the phone trading Miller and announcing it to JR after the fact.. 

 

JR will clear all transactions.. he is the boss.

 

He's just going to have a guy handle more of the day to day stuff and media duties etc so JR isn't working 16 hours a day. He's 73 yrs old..  he'll want to take it easy

 

But all the hockey transactions will have JR'S fingerprints on them. Trades will go thru JR. 

 

 

[Canuck Luck]

33 minutes ago, ilduce39 said:

Our RFA work was always pretty darn good.  I understand JR is going to bring in his own team but too bad we lost Gear and all the best to him. 

This team has sucked for years. Every front office employee needs to be fired, like Gear, to bring in a new team and hopefully a successful team.

[tas]

3 minutes ago, mll said:

Botterill left for a better opportunity.  Karmanos left because he was fired.  Why would he want to be 2nd to Rutherford when he fired him.  Not sure either that Buffalo would be willing to let him go.  

there is apparently a narrative that rutherford didn't want to fire karmanos, that he was pressured by higher ups/ownership.

[WHL rocks]

17 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

Have you seen Garland’s face? 

 

People keep saying we have undersized players, but two of our “undersized” players are leading the team in points in Garland (20) and Hughes (22). 

 

I’m curious, but which players are you referring to? Petey? I mean, the guy, this season not withstanding, has put up some decent numbers. Same with Brock and Bo. 

Lots of players put up numbers. But building a team that's going to compete and win playoffs is not just gathering bunch of guys who put up numbers..

 

To build a successful team you need all types of talent and size and skill and personalities. 

 

Every Olympics or World Cup team Canada management and media talk about it.. you dont throw together top 30 point scorers that are Canadian. You need checkers and hitters and defensive specialists and grit and size... that's how a team is built. 

[Mike Vanderhoek]

12 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

Is Botterill any good of a GM? I’m kind of worried about who our next GM is going to be….

 

 

I was just reading last night that it was his work that added the outer pieces around Sid and Malkin in Pittsburgh for their last two championships. I'd have to go check on what those deals were but he seems to have a pretty good pulse on the League. He also turned Kane on an expiring contract in Buffalo into a 1st rounder +, he also used said pick to bringin Brandon Montour later on. 

 

He got a pretty good haul from St.Louis for Ryan O'Reilly too if I remember correctly and he was the one who made the call on drafting the following players: Rasmus Dahlin, Casey Mittlestadt, Dylan Cozens and potential franchise netminder in Ukko-Pekka Luukkonen.

[DeNiro]

14 minutes ago, Mike Vanderhoek said:

I was just reading last night that it was his work that added the outer pieces around Sid and Malkin in Pittsburgh for their last two championships. I'd have to go check on what those deals were but he seems to have a pretty good pulse on the League. He also turned Kane on an expiring contract in Buffalo into a 1st rounder +, he also used said pick to bringin Brandon Montour later on. 

 

He got a pretty good haul from St.Louis for Ryan O'Reilly too if I remember correctly and he was the one who made the call on drafting the following players: Rasmus Dahlin, Casey Mittlestadt, Dylan Cozens and potential franchise netminder in Ukko-Pekka Luukkonen.

That O’Reilly trade is considered one of the worst in Sabres history.

 

He got a horrible return. He also signed Skinner to a ridiculous deal.

 

There are many better options than Botterill. If he’s brought in it’s cause Rutherford thinks he owes him.

 

Edited December 11, 2021 by DeNiro

[Gawdzukes]

12 minutes ago, WHL rocks said:

Why is it different..

 

Kovalchuk came here played and in his prime went back to Russia.

 

Jagr came here played and still playing at a very high level went to his home for 3 yrs 

 

Tryamkin came here played parts of 2 seasons.. his wife moved here with him.

 

 

 

Are you freaking serious , no wonder you don't get it?

 

Kovalchuk played 14 seasons in the NHL, scoring 876 points in 926 games, good for 128th all time and in the process established himself as one of the best and most skilled players in the world. He definitely followed an elite path and played 10 full years before returning to the KHL.

 

Jagr (lol) played played 25 seasons and scored 1733 points 2nd best ever in the world next to Gretzky. He played for 15 seasons before returning to the Czech league.

 

Both of these players returned to the NHL for large periods of time to pursue excellence at the top level. Tryamkin has not.

 

Tryamkin played 79 games over 2 seasons scoring 11 points and ran back to Russia with his tail between his legs accomplishing next to nothing.

 

No offence but if you can't see the difference here then sorry you're blind.

 

 

[N4ZZY]

39 minutes ago, WHL rocks said:

Why is it different..

 

Kovalchuk came here played and in his prime went back to Russia.

 

Jagr came here played and still playing at a very high level went to his home for 3 yrs 

 

Tryamkin came here played parts of 2 seasons.. his wife moved here with him.

 

They got better money to move back to Russia to play the same game. They moved.. 

 

People forget that this is a business.. fans get way too attached to minor issues surrounding contracts or teams or players switching teams.. over and over you hear it from the players that this is a business.  It's their job.

 

You get more money doing the same job living in your own country rather than half way across the planet different language different culture and not to mention its an enemy country with people hostile to Russia. 

 

Easy choice. 

 

This is a business. Not a romantic story about a little boy giving everything in his life just to play in the NHL.

 

Players say it over and over that this is a business..

 

A couple of years ago there was talk about Chinese basketball team offering 50 million per year to NBA star players to play in China. 

 

A reporter asked LeBron James if he would go to China for 50 million.. 

 

James answered immediately saying where do I sign.

 

LeBron is willing to go to China for more money. Tram stayed in his own country  for more money....

 

It's a business. Nothing to do with drive.. 

 

 

I never heard that about LeBron, but it wouldn’t surprise me one bit. Money is often what drives people. 

 

It is a business at the end of the day. I do agree with that. It’s nothing personal, even though fans (like us) can often take it personally. 

 

Imagine Petey or Hughes leaving for greener pastures. This fan base would crucify those two. 

 

[N4ZZY]

40 minutes ago, WHL rocks said:

Ok...

 

I don't understand what you're trying to say...

 

Are you saying Karmanos would say NO to being GM of the Canucks if JR called him??

I think it’s got to be the right fit right? 

 

It’s not so much that Karmanos wouldn’t want to be GM, but that whether he thinks the Canucks are the right fit for him, and of course vice versa. 

 

[MaxVerstappen33]

2 hours ago, Canuckfanforlife82 said:

What are we trading to make these changes? You need to give something up in order to get something back. We don’t have the depth in terms of prospects or picks right now. The gm has what he has and it is not a lot.

What do you mean ? Podkolzin or Hoglander have value. Horvat , Miller 

[ilduce39]

34 minutes ago, Canuck Luck said:

This team has sucked for years. Every front office employee needs to be fired, like Gear, to bring in a new team and hopefully a successful team.

I disagree, as RFA signings weren’t the issue.  

But like I said, JR bringing in his own staff is expected.

[Mike Vanderhoek]

13 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

That O’Reilly trade is considered on of the worst in Sabres history.

 

He for a horrible return. He also sign Skinner to a ridiculous deal.

 

There are many better options than Botterill. If he’s brought in it’s cause Rutherford thinks he owes him.

I am not a fan of Botterill, just replying to someone asking if he was any decent. The Sabres in the O'Reilly deal got the young player they wanted in Thompson who is playing top six minutes now and starting to produce at 24yrs old. They used that first to snag Ryan Johnson who may still prove to be a nice offensive defenseman for them. I wouldn't say it was the worst trade in Sabres history, the team was satisfied with their return at the time, the veterans kind of faded out right away but personal reasons on Berglund came into play.

 

Skinner yes a inflated contract now, but the luxury of hindsight is a beautiful thing. He was not quite 27 years old and potted 40 goals in his first season in Buffalo, you can imagine the club would have thought they found their goal scorer alongside their franchise player and locked him up. Too much term and money sure, was going into UFA though. Deal doesn't look good now I agree, but context you can understand the move.

 

I still would not be overly thrilled if Botterill joined the Canucks, now if Lombardi jumped from Philly to join the Canucks that would be a pinchable moment.

[WHL rocks]

3 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

Are you freaking serious , no wonder you don't get it?

 

Kovalchuk played 14 seasons in the NHL, scoring 876 points in 926 games, good for 128th all time and in the process established himself as one of the best and most skilled players in the world. He definitely followed an elite path and played 10 full years before returning to the KHL.

 

Jagr (lol) played played 25 seasons and scored 1733 points 2nd best ever in the world next to Gretzky. He played for 15 seasons before returning to the Czech league.

 

Both of these players returned to the NHL for large periods of time to pursue excellence at the top level. Tryamkin has not.

 

Tryamkin played 79 games over 2 seasons scoring 11 points and ran back to Russia with his tail between his legs accomplishing next to nothing.

 

No offence but if you can't see the difference here then sorry you're blind.

 

 

The way you speak of him "ran back to Russia with his tail between his legs"... "accomplished nothing "

 

Clearly you are emotionally attached to him going back to Russia and find him going back home to be a very negative thing..

 

Your opinion is clearly biased. 

 

He got more money to go back home and play in his own country.

 

It's a job for him. He's not a teenager from Vancouver emotionally attached to being an NHL player in a romantic way .. no.. it's his job. It's a business... that's all...

 

 

[lmm]

57 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

Have you seen Garland’s face? 

 

People keep saying we have undersized players, but two of our “undersized” players are leading the team in points in Garland (20) and Hughes (22). 

 

I’m curious, but which players are you referring to? Petey? I mean, the guy, this season not withstanding, has put up some decent numbers. Same with Brock and Bo. 

That is one of the funny things about Canuck fans

people say draft for skill, trade for position

but once a guy is drafted everyone screams bloody murder if the subject of trade comes up

I see nothing wrong with any of the smaller Canucks, 

but there are just too many

I see nothing wrong with any of the bigger Canucks, 

but there are just too few

and half of them don't use their size

I was not a fan of bringing in Schenner, but he is near the top of my favorite player list because he he will stick up for everyone and he hits and he'll fight

[WHL rocks]

13 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

I never heard that about LeBron, but it wouldn’t surprise me one bit. Money is often what drives people. 

 

It is a business at the end of the day. I do agree with that. It’s nothing personal, even though fans (like us) can often take it personally. 

 

Imagine Petey or Hughes leaving for greener pastures. This fan base would crucify those two. 

 

Players sign offer sheets all the time..

Even a prominent Canucks player...

 

Ryan Kessler signed an offer sheet with Philadelphia Flyers. He was willing to leave the Canucks for more money in the US. Why can't Tryamkin go back to his home country while getting more money than he would with the Canucks..

[Gawdzukes]

4 minutes ago, WHL rocks said:

The way you speak of him "ran back to Russia with his tail between his legs"... "accomplished nothing "

 

Clearly you are emotionally attached to him going back to Russia and find him going back home to be a very negative thing..

 

Your opinion is clearly biased. 

 

He got more money to go back home and play in his own country.

 

It's a job for him. He's not a teenager from Vancouver emotionally attached to being an NHL player in a romantic way .. no.. it's his job. It's a business... that's all...

 

 

Okay agree to disagree on this. I don't think it's just a business at all for players who are driven to be the best. For Tryamkin it clearly is I agree. I think we may actually be discussing different things but I understand your point. Enjoy the rest of the day WHL.