hammertime Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 18 hours ago, Gawdzukes said: Yes, all around the league I agree. Just curious who do you consider the better 4th line players in the league and who would you realistically replace him with? Follow up question. If this so obvious why doesn't BB notice this as well? Czikas Martin Clutterbuck 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coryberg Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 2 hours ago, hammertime said: Czikas Martin Clutterbuck Clutterbuck makes 4.66 times the salary Czikas makes 3.33 times the salary Martin makes 2 times the salary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawdzukes Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 2 hours ago, hammertime said: Czikas Martin Clutterbuck Nice, I figured those guys might be on the list. Unfortunately their salary is $2.5 $1.1 $3.5 = $7.1 Chiasson Lammikko Motte is $1.2 $.725 $1.225 = $3.5 Any ideas for cheaper wingers ... especially a Chiasson replacement for arguments sake? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coryberg Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 (edited) 22 hours ago, King Heffy said: There have been at least 20 better players waived, including a couple by us. The vast majority of 4th liners would an upgrade over Green's pet plug. I do agree that there were better players on waivers under Benning's watch and that's on him. I'm curious as to who these 2 "better" players that we waived are? Only 2 I saw were big Mac who has 2 points and is a -9. The other one is Gadjovich who has 2 points and is a -7. Chiasson has triple the points and a much better +/- than either of them (6 points and -3). Yes Chiasson is a plug, but don't fool yourself into thinking those 2 other plugs are superior. They were waived and are in tough to hang onto roster spots with poor teams for a reason. If it weren't for their ability to fight I couldn't see either one on an NHL roster right now and from what I've seen from this team since Bruce has taken over we aren't in need of a goon. Edited January 4, 2022 by coryberg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coryberg Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 (edited) Dp Edited January 4, 2022 by coryberg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 4 minutes ago, coryberg said: I do agree that there were better players on waivers under Benning's watch and that's on him. I'm curious as to who these 2 "better" players that we waived are? Only 2 I saw were big Mac who has 2 points and is a -9. The other one is Gadjovich who has 2 points and is a -7. Chiasson has triple the points and a much better +/- than either of them (6 points and -3). Yes Chiasson is a plug, but don't fool yourself into thinking those 2 other plugs are superior. They were waived and are in tough to hang onto roster spots with poor teams for a reason. If it weren't for their ability to fight I couldn't see either one on an NHL roster right now and from what I've seen from this team since Bruce has taken over we aren't in need of a goon. At least they're able to bring something positive to a lineup though; a good coach can minimize the weaknesses. Chiasson doesn't do a whole lot except breathe occasionally. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawdzukes Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 17 hours ago, King Heffy said: By that logic, LE wasn't absolute trash over his time here. Bottom line is Chiasson is slow as hell, poor defensively, doesn't hit a lot, and can't score 5 on 5. He may have been able to contribute in the past, but he has done nothing either in training camp or this season to indicate he belongs in the NHL; the only reason he was gifted a spot is because an incompetent clown decided to get rid of anyone who played like they actually wanted the job. Honest question. Have you ever watched or are you familiar with all the 4th line RW's currently playing in the NHL? Do you know: Vinny Lettieri Buddy Robinson Christian Fischer 6'2 214 24yrs 6pts (3,3) Curtis Lazar John Hayden Trevor Lewis Seth Jarvis 5"10 175 19yrs 14 pts (5,9) - Wow, nice luxury MacKenzie Entwistle 6"3 184 22 yrs 5 pts (3,2) Darren Helm Max Domi - $2.9m 15 pts Thomas Harley Sam Gagner 13 pts (4,9) $3.4m Kyle Turris Arthur Kaliyev 6"2 190 20 yrs 11 pts (7,4) Nick Bjugstad 6"6 209 29 yrs 5 pts (4,1) This is half the league. It's a lot of work so I stopped for now but I will complete later. What I've discovered is there are definitely better players to be had but they are either ELC cost controlled youngsters or quite expensive. Too expensive for us. Also 4th line LW/RW is kind of the spot for the worst players in the league. Now Heffy I'm trying to see things your way so try to play nice, I agree that Chiasson is definitely able to be upgraded but can you please actually list a couple players we could target instead of just getting mad at Green and Chiasson? I'm curious as to the type of player you think fits there. I think we'd have to keep it at $2 or under but I'm willing to listen to any ideas you have. I also noticed Sheldon Rempal is skating with the team today. He's doing pretty awesome with the Abby Nucks. RW 22gp 8g 12a 20pts. He's 26 but really light 5"10 165 ... yowzer lol. I'd like to see him get a shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said: Honest question. Have you ever watched or are you familiar with all the 4th line RW's currently playing in the NHL? Do you know: Vinny Lettieri Buddy Robinson Christian Fischer 6'2 214 24yrs 6pts (3,3) Curtis Lazar John Hayden Trevor Lewis Seth Jarvis 5"10 175 19yrs 14 pts (5,9) - Wow, nice luxury MacKenzie Entwistle 6"3 184 22 yrs 5 pts (3,2) Darren Helm Max Domi - $2.9m 15 pts Thomas Harley Sam Gagner 13 pts (4,9) $3.4m Kyle Turris Arthur Kaliyev 6"2 190 20 yrs 11 pts (7,4) Nick Bjugstad 6"6 209 29 yrs 5 pts (4,1) This is half the league. It's a lot of work so I stopped for now but I will complete later. What I've discovered is there are definitely better players to be had but they are either ELC cost controlled youngsters or quite expensive. Too expensive for us. Also 4th line LW/RW is kind of the spot for the worst players in the league. Now Heffy I'm trying to see things your way so try to play nice, I agree that Chiasson is definitely able to be upgraded but can you please actually list a couple players we could target instead of just getting mad at Green and Chiasson? I'm curious as to the type of player you think fits there. I think we'd have to keep it at $2 or under but I'm willing to listen to any ideas you have. I also noticed Sheldon Rempal is skating with the team today. He's doing pretty awesome with the Abby Nucks. RW 22gp 8g 12a 20pts. He's 26 but really light 5"10 165 ... yowzer lol. I'd like to see him get a shot. Comeau and Clifford both come to mind right away. Would prefer someone who brings some physicality. Motte is versatile enough that he can play RW. Edited January 4, 2022 by King Heffy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawdzukes Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 1 minute ago, King Heffy said: Comeau and Clifford both come to mind right away. Would prefer someone who brings some physicality. Yeah I don't think JR is the guy to scour the waivers. I don't recall him doing much there in the past but I could be wrong. He'll make a move when he's ready but I guess he indicated he's not going to make any trades himself so that's a month or two away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 Just now, Gawdzukes said: Yeah I don't think JR is the guy to scour the waivers. I don't recall him doing much there in the past but I could be wrong. He'll make a move when he's ready but I guess he indicated he's not going to make any trades himself so that's a month or two away. Fair, but he also has been pretty consistently at the other end of the priority list in Pittsburgh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawdzukes Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 20 minutes ago, King Heffy said: Fair, but he also has been pretty consistently at the other end of the priority list in Pittsburgh. Touche, good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnAntoski Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 2 hours ago, Gawdzukes said: Nice, I figured those guys might be on the list. Unfortunately their salary is $2.5 $1.1 $3.5 = $7.1 Chiasson Lammikko Motte is $1.2 $.725 $1.225 = $3.5 Any ideas for cheaper wingers ... especially a Chiasson replacement for arguments sake? Highmore played well, with Motte & Lammi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnAntoski Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, coryberg said: I do agree that there were better players on waivers under Benning's watch and that's on him. I'm curious as to who these 2 "better" players that we waived are? Only 2 I saw were big Mac who has 2 points and is a -9. The other one is Gadjovich who has 2 points and is a -7. Chiasson has triple the points and a much better +/- than either of them (6 points and -3). Yes Chiasson is a plug, but don't fool yourself into thinking those 2 other plugs are superior. They were waived and are in tough to hang onto roster spots with poor teams for a reason. If it weren't for their ability to fight I couldn't see either one on an NHL roster right now and from what I've seen from this team since Bruce has taken over we aren't in need of a goon. Both can fight and there potential based on there age, is where fans tends to differ in there opinions when discussing this topic. Both are still, in there pre prime years and Chaisson is 31, as of today. Anyways, they are gone and good chance, Chaisson will not be here next year. Edited January 4, 2022 by ShawnAntoski 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmm Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 23 hours ago, Gawdzukes said: Yeah neither are speedsters but Chiasson has a little more zip. Both are heavier players with good height. Neal does have more pedigree, skill and a great shot but he appears to be losing it quickly. I'm pretty confused as to the slack Chiasson gets here. He hasn't been a problem and doesn't make a lot of glaring mistakes. He's played pretty well lately, BB even put him on the first line. I think people get carried away hating on Green and conflagrate that with Chiasson somehow. I always thought he played quite well against us in the past. Expectations are sky high here for 4th liners. I don't think it is so much sky high expectations as fans want a real 4th line not a bunch of smurf scorers who don't do anything well when the Benning /Linden/Willie D era started Tom Sestito was still on the club Willie D did all he could to embarrass Sestito, and I recall several fans who were on board with that treatment also claiming that the classic 4th liner was dead It is true that the classic 4th liner has changed since that time, but it has not changed to the point that it has been taken over by Justin Dowling and Nik Petan Carrier/Reeves/Maroon are still earning jobs 23 hours ago, Gawdzukes said: Yes, all around the league I agree. Just curious who do you consider the better 4th line players in the league and who would you realistically replace him with? Follow up question. If this so obvious why doesn't BB notice this as well? unfortunately the players we might have replaced Chiasson with left on the waiver wire replaced by guys like Dowling, Petan and Chiasson Maybe BB has noticed, maybe JR has as well but those guys are enjoying their Canuck Honeymoon and are not under pressure to make changes with every twitch of the waiver wire There is no saying that BB has the same level of input into the ear of JR that Green had with Benning Bruce dressed 7 D last game because that is what was available to him, playing Hunt more minutes than Burroughs caused a mild stir Rutherford called up Rempal to the taxi squad, and from where I am sitting, Rempal is cut from the same cloth as Petan and Dowling, but those were the cards JR was dealt JR is using the pieces the was left with and BB is using the pieces that JR is offering Neal scored at the same rate as Chiasson last year, with fewer games and PMs I don't see him as the message JR wants to send his new team 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 2 minutes ago, lmm said: I don't think it is so much sky high expectations as fans want a real 4th line not a bunch of smurf scorers who don't do anything well when the Benning /Linden/Willie D era started Tom Sestito was still on the club Willie D did all he could to embarrass Sestito, and I recall several fans who were on board with that treatment also claiming that the classic 4th liner was dead It is true that the classic 4th liner has changed since that time, but it has not changed to the point that it has been taken over by Justin Dowling and Nik Petan Carrier/Reeves/Maroon are still earning jobs I don't know. I think it all depends really. We're playing well at the moment so I don't see a point in changing things until we come back down to Earth. I guess my question would be does having a Reeves or a Maroon or whomever correlate to having a good team or do enough good teams get by without those kind of players anyway? I have no opinion on this, it's just something I think that should be important to ask. Sure players like Reeves still get jobs, but how valuable are these jobs and do they make a huge impact or do they even create a negative impact through penalities? Just some things to ask really. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 12 minutes ago, The Lock said: I don't know. I think it all depends really. We're playing well at the moment so I don't see a point in changing things until we come back down to Earth. I guess my question would be does having a Reeves or a Maroon or whomever correlate to having a good team or do enough good teams get by without those kind of players anyway? I have no opinion on this, it's just something I think that should be important to ask. Sure players like Reeves still get jobs, but how valuable are these jobs and do they make a huge impact or do they even create a negative impact through penalities? Just some things to ask really. Name a team that's hoisted Stanley without that type of player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, King Heffy said: Name a team that's hoisted Stanley without that type of player. Let me flip this around. Tampa Bay and St. Louis had Maroon. What did Pittsburgh have? LA? Chicago? I'd like to know who you think would be those players on those teams. Also, just because a team wins a Stanley cup, should all other good teams be ignored? Were we a "bad team" in 2011 due to not winning the cup? Edited January 4, 2022 by The Lock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 Just now, The Lock said: Let me flip this around. Tampa Bay and St. Louis had Maroon. What did Pittsburgh have? LA? Chicago? I'd like to know who you think would be those players on those teams. Pittsburgh: Kunitz LA: Brown, Clifford, and their D was tough as nails. Hawks: Bickell, Burrish, Eager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 (edited) 2 minutes ago, King Heffy said: Pittsburgh: Kunitz LA: Brown, Clifford, and their D was tough as nails. Hawks: Bickell, Burrish, Eager Okay that's fair. But what about the other good teams that didn't win the cup? Also, is the reason they won the cup because of these guys in the 1st place, or is it coincidence? Your response doesn't really answer this to be honest. Edited January 4, 2022 by The Lock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 Just now, The Lock said: Okay that's fair. But what about the other good teams that didn't win the cup? They lost to teams that had this type of player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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