[Proposals] Miller and Garland both traded

[HKSR]

MIN receives JT Miller

VAN receives Matthew Boldy, Jordan Greenway, 1st round pick

 

NYR receives:  Conor Garland

VAN receives:  Braden Schneider, 2nd round pick

 

As JR has mentioned, he wants to get younger and gain cap flexibility while adding picks and prospects.

The above trades do both.  5 solid assets for the 2 players going out.  Boldy is a helluva player, 9pts in 9 NHL games.  Greenway adds some much needed snarl to the 3rd line.  Schneider is the key RHD prospect the Canucks need so badly.

 

Boeser-Petey-Boldy

Pearson-Bo-Hoglander

Greenway-Dickinson-Podz

Motte-Lamikko-Highmore

 

OEL-Myers

Hughes-Schneider

Schenn-Poolman

[SergioMomesso]

At least make the proposal fair for both sides. Absolutely no way Min gives up that many pieces for JT.

[eeeeergh]

15 minutes ago, HKSR said:

MIN receives JT Miller

VAN receives Matthew Boldy, Jordan Greenway, 1st round pick

 

NYR receives:  Conor Garland

VAN receives:  Braden Schneider, 2nd round pick

 

As JR has mentioned, he wants to get younger and gain cap flexibility while adding picks and prospects.

The above trades do both.  5 solid assets for the 2 players going out.  Boldy is a helluva player, 9pts in 9 NHL games.  Greenway adds some much needed snarl to the 3rd line.  Schneider is the key RHD prospect the Canucks need so badly.

 

Boeser-Petey-Boldy

Pearson-Bo-Hoglander

Greenway-Dickinson-Podz

Motte-Lamikko-Highmore

 

OEL-Myers

Hughes-Schneider

Schenn-Poolman

I understand the Miller trade (and think its reasonable actually). I'm not sure why we give up Garland given that he's currently 25, and that it seems JR wants to contend in 3-4 years. Garland will be in his prime during our contention window, and we arent winning a cup with a team of all 23-24 year olds. 

[HKSR]

9 minutes ago, SergioMomesso said:

At least make the proposal fair for both sides. Absolutely no way Min gives up that many pieces for JT.

Why not?  I'm basing it on the consensus out there for expert panels saying it'll take 3 or 4 pieces to acquire JT Miller...

 

The template is basically a serviceable NHL regular (Greenway), a top tier prospect (Boldy), and a 1st round pick.

 

NYR:  NHL Regular (Chytil), a top tier prospect (Schneider), and a 1st round pick

COL:  NHL Regular (JT Compher), a top tier prospect (Barron), and a 1st round pick

 

These are not unusual lopsided packages being put together. 

 

It is HIGHLY unusual for a top tier, power forward, point-per-game 1C that plays in all situations (PP, PK, etc) becoming available on a very reasonable cap hit.  He's a bit of a unicorn for contending teams.  I challenge you to find a player like him that was traded mid-season in the past 15 years.

[khay]

I think we only need to trade Miller. 

 

We only trade Garland if Miller wants to re-sign and we don't have other moveable pieces to clear the space to accommodate Miller.

 

[Rick Blight]

Just now, HKSR said:

Why not?  I'm basing it on the consensus out there for expert panels saying it'll take 3 or 4 pieces to acquire JT Miller...

 

The template is basically a serviceable NHL regular (Greenway), a top tier prospect (Boldy), and a 1st round pick.

 

NYR:  NHL Regular (Chytil), a top tier prospect (Schneider), and a 1st round pick

COL:  NHL Regular (JT Compher), a top tier prospect (Barron), and a 1st round pick

 

These are not unusual lopsided packages being put together. 

 

It is HIGHLY unusual for a top tier, power forward, point-per-game 1C that plays in all situations (PP, PK, etc) becoming available on a very reasonable cap hit.  He's a bit of a unicorn for contending teams.  I challenge you to find a player like him that was traded mid-season in the past 15 years.

Minnesota cannot afford Miller next year and beyond as the dead cap hit for Suter and Parise goes to $12.7M next year and to $14.7M the following year. Minnesota will be looking to shed salary as opposed to taking on Miller's contract.

 

Even the Rangers are going to be looking at shedding cap for next year. They currently have $9.7M in cap space for next year but still need to sign 8 more players to fill their roster.

 

The trade values may be in the ballpark but only if we are able to take salary back, particularly with Minnesota.

 

[Strawbone]

Sneaky thread title, my heart skipped a beat when I first saw it.

[HKSR]

7 minutes ago, Rick Blight said:

Minnesota cannot afford Miller next year and beyond as the dead cap hit for Suter and Parise goes to $12.7M next year and to $14.7M the following year. Minnesota will be looking to shed salary as opposed to taking on Miller's contract.

 

Even the Rangers are going to be looking at shedding cap for next year. They currently have $9.7M in cap space for next year but still need to sign 8 more players to fill their roster.

 

The trade values may be in the ballpark but only if we are able to take salary back, particularly with Minnesota.

 

Maybe, maybe not.  I see them walking away from Rask and Goligoski.  That's $9M right there.  It also sounds like they want to move Fiala.  That's another $5.1M there.  Moving out Greenway and Boldy is nearly $4M (Greenway just re-signed for $3M AAV, and Boldy is about $900k right now).

 

So with those moves above, that's $18.1M moving out by next year alone. 

 

Then the following year, do they keep Dumba?  Or do they make room for Addison?  Dumba is another $6M.

 

Put it this way, they would really benefit from a 1C.  They don't have a true 1C at all.  Nothing in the pipelines either.

[Rick Blight]

23 minutes ago, HKSR said:

 more playersaybe, maybe not.  I see them walking away from Rask and Goligoski.  That's $9M right there.  It also sounds like they want to move Fiala.  That's another $5.1M there.  Moving out Greenway and Boldy is nearly $4M (Greenway just re-signed for $3M AAV, and Boldy is about $900k right now).

 

So with those moves above, that's $18.1M moving out by next year alone. 

 

Then the following year, do they keep Dumba?  Or do they make room for Addison?  Dumba is another $6M.

 

Put it this way, they would really benefit from a 1C.  They don't have a true 1C at all.  Nothing in the pipelines either.

Because of the massive buyouts for Suter and Parise increasing next year they are only going to have $11.2M in cap space while still needing to sign 9 more players. Those figures already include the deletion of Rask's, Fiala's and Goligoski's contracts. They simply cannot take on a contract like Miller's and definitely could not afford to re-sign him as their cap situation is even worse the following year.

[J.I.A.H.N]

15 minutes ago, Rick Blight said:

Because of the massive buyouts for Suter and Parise increasing next year they are only going to have $11.2M in cap space while still needing to sign 9 more players. Those figures already include the deletion of Rask's, Fiala's and Goligoski's contracts. They simply cannot take on a contract like Miller's and definitely could not afford to re-sign him as their cap situation is even worse the following year.

Miller 50% retained does fit the bill.....at 2.6 Million........absolutely no argument if that happens

[Ghostsof1915]

3 minutes ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

Miller 50% retained does fit the bill.....at 2.6 Million........absolutely no argument if that happens

No to retaining ANY salary.

We want out of the cap crunch.

Not two more years of it. 

[Rick Blight]

10 minutes ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

Miller 50% retained does fit the bill.....at 2.6 Million........absolutely no argument if that happens

That still wouldn't change the fact they could not afford to renew Miller's contract. Minnesota would have to be going all in for the Cup this year or next to make that deal and I don't see that happening Jan.

[Nucker 67]

JR wants to clear cap space.  VAN might not get back what some think in some trades.

 

I could see a somewhat underwhelming returns for Garland and Miller, for example.

 

Possibly Garland to NJ for Ty Smith and a 2nd.  Maybe Miller goes to NYR for a 1st, Nils Lundqvist and Chytil.  

 

 

 

 

[aGENT]

9 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

JR wants to clear cap space.  VAN might not get back what some think in some trades.

 

I could see a somewhat underwhelming returns for Garland and Miller, for example.

 

Possibly Garland to NJ for Ty Smith and a 2nd.  Maybe Miller goes to NYR for a 1st, Nils Lundqvist and Chytil.  

 

 

 

 

You don't (comparatively) 'dump' high demand players like Miller or Garland to clear cap. 

 

Simply moving them, even with taking cap back is bound to shave $500k- $1m here and there. All while returning legit pieces.

 

Now if you get a middling returns to get rid of cap from an as yet ill-fitting Dickinson etc... Sure. 

[wildcam]

8 hours ago, HKSR said:

Why not?  I'm basing it on the consensus out there for expert panels saying it'll take 3 or 4 pieces to acquire JT Miller...

 

The template is basically a serviceable NHL regular (Greenway), a top tier prospect (Boldy), and a 1st round pick.

 

NYR:  NHL Regular (Chytil), a top tier prospect (Schneider), and a 1st round pick

COL:  NHL Regular (JT Compher), a top tier prospect (Barron), and a 1st round pick

 

These are not unusual lopsided packages being put together. 

 

It is HIGHLY unusual for a top tier, power forward, point-per-game 1C that plays in all situations (PP, PK, etc) becoming available on a very reasonable cap hit.  He's a bit of a unicorn for contending teams.  I challenge you to find a player like him that was traded mid-season in the past 15 years.

Col--- Newhook C ,21 ----- Compher -- 1st rounder

NYR -- Schneider 20, 6'2 RD -- Chytil  23 -C - 6'4 --1st rounder

[Nucker 67]

Canucks are winning, or at least picking up points in almost every game (points in 16 of their last 20 under Boudreau), so they are slowly clawing their way into a playoff spot. I now doubt that Miller gets traded, because they don't need to this season. If things go sideways, then maybe he gets moved, but they keep picking up those points.

 

Garland, on the other hand, I think gets moved. Maybe he's packaged with Schenn?  To NJ for Severson and a prospect? (Nolan Foote?)

 

 

 

 

[mll]

On 1/31/2022 at 8:15 PM, HKSR said:

Maybe, maybe not.  I see them walking away from Rask and Goligoski.  That's $9M right there.  It also sounds like they want to move Fiala.  That's another $5.1M there.  Moving out Greenway and Boldy is nearly $4M (Greenway just re-signed for $3M AAV, and Boldy is about $900k right now).

 

So with those moves above, that's $18.1M moving out by next year alone. 

 

Then the following year, do they keep Dumba?  Or do they make room for Addison?  Dumba is another $6M.

 

Put it this way, they would really benefit from a 1C.  They don't have a true 1C at all.  Nothing in the pipelines either.

They are actually negotiating a new deal with Goligoski.  Was agreed when they signed him last summer but they didn't want to average the contract because of the buyouts so it's expected to be somewhere between 2-3M per Russo.  Fiala is likely going to be too expensive to fit under their cap.

 

They didn't sign Greenway to trade him.  That GREEF line is key for them and has yet to allow a 5v5 goal against.  It's one of the hardest line to play against.

 

Minnesota already has one of the very best top lines in the NHL with Hartman playing C1.  There's really no chance that they break up that top line up or the GREEF line.  

 

The Wild are 3rd in goals for per game.  Fiala has more EV points than Miller while playing with considerably lesser linemates - Freddy Gaudreau at C and on the opposite wing mostly Rask or whoever else didn't fit on another line.  Gaudreau was a 13th F /4th liner for Pittsburgh and has pretty much been tied to Fiala all season. 

 

Boldy was promoted 9 games ago and is ppg.  Guerin just confirmed that he's there to stay.  Him and Fiala have clicked immediately and have scored some key goals for them over that stretch.  Ideally they upgrade on Freddy Gaudreau to play C between Fiala and Boldy.  

 

Edited February 1, 2022 by mll

[HKSR]

1 hour ago, mll said:

They are actually negotiating a new deal with Goligoski.  Was agreed when they signed him last summer but they didn't want to average the contract because of the buyouts so it's expected to be somewhere between 2-3M per Russo.  Fiala is likely going to be too expensive to fit under their cap.

 

They didn't sign Greenway to trade him.  That GREEF line is key for them and has yet to allow a 5v5 goal against.  It's one of the hardest line to play against.

 

Minnesota already has one of the very best top lines in the NHL with Hartman playing C1.  There's really no chance that they break up that top line up or the GREEF line.  

 

The Wild are 3rd in goals for per game.  Fiala has more EV points than Miller while playing with considerably lesser linemates - Freddy Gaudreau at C and on the opposite wing mostly Rask or whoever else didn't fit on another line.  Gaudreau was a 13th F /4th liner for Pittsburgh and has pretty much been tied to Fiala all season. 

 

Boldy was promoted 9 games ago and is ppg.  Guerin just confirmed that he's there to stay.  Him and Fiala have clicked immediately and have scored some key goals for them over that stretch.  Ideally they upgrade on Freddy Gaudreau to play C between Fiala and Boldy.  

 

Upgrade.  That's why trades are made my friend.  If the Wild feel these guys down the middle will win them a Cup, then dunno what to say to them lol

 

1C Hartman - should be a 2nd line centre (67pt pace playing next to Kaprizov tells the tale in itself -- he's not a 1C)

2C Player Name-Ek - should be a 3rd line centre (54pt pace... not bad, but on a true contender, he should be 3C)

3C Gaudreau - should be a 4th line centre

 

Kaprizov is carrying that 1st line.  We all know it.

 

Their wingers are doing the damage.  Their centre depth is terrible.

 

EDIT:  LOL, I thought I had a typo and called Erikson-Ek "Player Name"-Ek haha

 

Edited February 1, 2022 by HKSR

[mll]

49 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Upgrade.  That's why trades are made my friend.  If the Wild feel these guys down the middle will win them a Cup, then dunno what to say to them lol

 

1C Hartman - should be a 2nd line centre (67pt pace playing next to Kaprizov tells the tale in itself -- he's not a 1C)

2C Player Name-Ek - should be a 3rd line centre (54pt pace... not bad, but on a true contender, he should be 3C)

3C Gaudreau - should be a 4th line centre

 

Kaprizov is carrying that 1st line.  We all know it.

 

Their wingers are doing the damage.  Their centre depth is terrible.

 

EDIT:  LOL, I thought I had a typo and called Erikson-Ek "Player Name"-Ek haha

 

Hartman didn't start at C1 but climbed his way up.  Of course Kaprizov is carrying his line - that's why he is being paid 9M but that line with Hartman has excelled.  They don't want someone else to take the puck away from Kaprizov who wants the puck all the time.  That's why Hartman also works so well there.  He lets Kaprizov and Zuccarello do their thing and it's working.  Breaking up one of the best lines in the league is highly unlikely.

 

Evason says they don't have line numbers.  So switch Ek and Fiala' lines if you prefer.  

 

Ek is their shutdown C.  He plays on that GREEF line who is so dominant for them - they have yet to allow a 5v5 goal which is exactly what that line should be doing.  It's a line built for the playoffs.  They take on the toughest matchups and frustrate players like no tomorrow because they just play so hard and physical.  Also one of the best lines in the league - there's a clip explaining why somewhere from NHL Network using tracking technology.

 

Fiala plays on an offensive line.  They could use a C for that line.  Fiala has more EV points than Miller while being pretty much on an island all season till they've recalled Boldy (7 games as a line).  Wonder what he could have done with some talent earlier.

 

Teams don't really break up lines that are dominant but try and fix the lines that aren't.  Their top line and the GREEF line have excelled. Fiala and Boldy are clicking but could use a better C than Gaudreau.

 

Guerin has repeated a few times now that it's no longer like in the past and you don't need a C to drive a line anymore.  Says you need a line driver but it doesn't have to be a C - gives Fiala as example who does it from the wing.  He goes in detail about that when he was guest on one of Russo's "Straight from the source" podcast.  

 

Edited February 1, 2022 by mll

[HKSR]

1 minute ago, mll said:

Hartman didn't start at C1 but climbed his way up.  Of course Kaprizov is carrying his line - that's why he is being paid 9M but that line with Hartman has excelled.  They don't want someone else to take the puck away from Kaprizov who wants the puck all the time.  That's why Hartman also works so well there.  He lets Kaprizov and Zuccarello do their thing and it's working.  Breaking up one of the best lines in the league is highly unlikely.

 

Evason says they don't have line numbers.  So switch his line Ek and Fiala' lines if you prefer.  

 

Ek is their shutdown C.  He plays on that GREEF line who is so dominant for them - they have yet to allow a 5v5 goal which is exactly what that line should be doing.  It's a line built for the playoffs.  They take on the toughest matchups and frustrate players like no tomorrow because they just play so hard and physical.  Also one of the best lines in the league - there's a clip explaining why somewhere from NHL Network using tracking technology.

 

Fiala plays on an offensive line.  They could use a C for that line.  Fiala has more EV points than Miller while being pretty much on an island all season till they've recalled Boldy (7 games as a line).  Wonder what he could have done with some talent earlier.

 

Teams don't really break up lines that are dominant but try and fix the lines that aren't.  Their top line and the GREEF line have excelled. 

 

Guerin has repeated a few times now that it's no longer like in the past and you don't need a C to drive a line anymore.  Says you need a line driver but it doesn't have to be a C - gives Fiala as example who does it from the wing.  He goes in detail about that when he was guest on one of Russo's "Straight from the source" podcast.  

 

 

If you have Horvat as 1C on the Canucks, and can bring in Mark Stone... do you do it?

 

What does Fiala (a non-centre) have to do with this?  We all know strength down the middle is vital in the playoffs.  Guerin can repeat all he wants, but when he faces Vegas with Eichel, Karlsson, and Stephenson down the middle, or the Avs with Mackinnon, Rantanen, and Kadri down the middle, he'll eat his words.

 

Like you said, Ek is a shutdown centre on a shutdown line.  That's fine, then that means the other line is their 2nd scoring line.  The 2nd scoring line has Gaudreau as their centre?  I think you know that they need centre help.  Using Gaudreau and Rau to round out your other 2 pivot positions is suicidal for the playoffs, especially when your other scoring centre is not even that strong.