[Rumour] Canucks interested in Andrei Kuzmenko

[Gurn]

Bush league- survives because the fans love the game.

If San Jose is found to be wrong to dump him, doesn't Edmonton have to be found wrong for signing him as well?

And what year is the decision coming down in?

Are they hoping for a couple of extra million jump in cap height, to soften San Jose's pain?

 

Bush league.

 

Edited May 25, 2022 by gurn

[mll]

2 minutes ago, JM_ said:

I would hope so. If they are simply let off the hook its completely unfair to a team like Vancouver who got hit with the Luongo cap.

 

I wonder how long the process is going to take? I can't imagine there is that much information to review. Are they waiting for the season to end first? 

Apparently need another meeting with Kane but difficult to arrange with the playoffs going on.  They are probably waiting for a break in the schedule.

[Herberts Vasiljevs]

I've had this fantasy of late where if the Oilers are the team that lands Kuzmenko, Rutherford will exact his revenge by offersheeting Puljujarvi. 

Edited May 26, 2022 by Herberts Vasiljevs

[Provost]

16 hours ago, gurn said:

Bush league- survives because the fans love the game.

If San Jose is found to be wrong to dump him, doesn't Edmonton have to be found wrong for signing him as well?

And what year is the decision coming down in?

Are they hoping for a couple of extra million jump in cap height, to soften San Jose's pain?

 

Bush league.

 

Can’t really find any fault with Edmonton, they just signed a guy who was a UFA…. but you sure can with the league and San Jose.

It will look bad on the league if the Stanley Cup outcome is affected by this.  It certainly doesn’t help San Jose’s arbitration case that Kane appears to be able to function pretty well as an NHL player.  They don’t have a lot of arguments for why they get to escape tens of millions of dollars of salary on a signed contract they gave the player.  That is aside from the cap considerations which are a league decision.

 

[Gurn]

1 hour ago, Provost said:

Can’t really find any fault with Edmonton

It's Edmonton, you can always fault them for something.

[CanucksJay]

2 hours ago, Provost said:

Can’t really find any fault with Edmonton, they just signed a guy who was a UFA…. but you sure can with the league and San Jose.

It will look bad on the league if the Stanley Cup outcome is affected by this.  It certainly doesn’t help San Jose’s arbitration case that Kane appears to be able to function pretty well as an NHL player.  They don’t have a lot of arguments for why they get to escape tens of millions of dollars of salary on a signed contract they gave the player.  That is aside from the cap considerations which are a league decision.

 

I think this will be SJs undoing...

If Kane becomes one of the top goal scorers in the playoffs the same year SJ cuts him, what can they say about his ability to function as a hockey player? 

Like why are we carrying JVs buyout cap hit if SJ got rid of Kane's cap hit for character issues as well? 

Why did we have to trade Kassian for Prust rather than just cutting him? 

If teams can start getting rid of players and avoid cap for off ice issues, it'll open Pandora's box.  Like how many do drugs, cocaine, cheat on spouse etc? If you start cutting players and dodge cap hits for off ice behaviors, it'll start a very scary precedence. Bettman is a lawyer. I'm sure he knows all the ramifications. If SJ avoids cap, Canucks should sue the league and get JVs cap hit taken off the books and retroactively add his caphit that we absorbed this year and add it as free capspace next year. That'd be similar to what the league did to us with the Luongo recapture penalty lol. 

 

[Fanuck]

19 hours ago, JM_ said:

the really funny part would be the arbitrator ruling Kane is still under contract with SJS. 

I can't see that happening because of the implications of the legality of the games he has been playing with Edmonton in the meantime.   Both LA & CGY would immediately launch grievances against the NHL/EDM for ineligible player use in the playoffs. 

 

What could potentially happen is an arbitrated buy-out where if it's determined Kane was unjustifiably terminated SJ would owe him a portion of his contracted salary but he would still have been considered a UFA when he signed with Edmonton. Otherwise every game Kane played with Edmonton could potentially be under dispute.

 

The question if Kane was unjustifiably terminated and owed salary would be whether the NHL applies that money to SJ's past and/or future cap?

[Kobayashi Maru]

6 hours ago, Herberts Vasiljevs said:

I've had this fantasy of late where if the Oilers are the team that lands Kuzmenko, Rutherford will exact his revenge by offersheeting Puljujarvi. 

I know it won't happen for several reasons (Not really Edm's primary need, and inter-division is unlikely) however I would love to trade them Miller for Puljujarvi and Broberg.  They are in win-now mode and we are a couple years away mostly likely so the timing would work nicely.  Just won't happen obviously.

[JM_]

1 hour ago, Fanuck said:

I can't see that happening because of the implications of the legality of the games he has been playing with Edmonton in the meantime.   Both LA & CGY would immediately launch grievances against the NHL/EDM for ineligible player use in the playoffs. 

 

What could potentially happen is an arbitrated buy-out where if it's determined Kane was unjustifiably terminated SJ would owe him a portion of his contracted salary but he would still have been considered a UFA when he signed with Edmonton. Otherwise every game Kane played with Edmonton could potentially be under dispute.

 

The question if Kane was unjustifiably terminated and owed salary would be whether the NHL applies that money to SJ's past and/or future cap?

It absolutely should count against SJs cap.

[Fanuck]

5 minutes ago, JM_ said:

It absolutely should count against SJs cap.

A lot of things should happen in the NHL, but......

[Provost]

On 5/25/2022 at 12:38 PM, JM_ said:

the really funny part would be the arbitrator ruling Kane is still under contract with SJS. 

It would be a little funny, but it will never happen.

 

Kane’s camp can argue that the Sharks poisoned the employment relationship to an extent he can’t reasonably be expected to go back and work for them.

 

The worst case for San Jose I think is an arbitrator says they are on the hook for the full amount of his remaining contract minus what he earns in the meantime to mitigate his losses.  That will cause another arbitration fight because Kane could purposefully sign for league minimum in Edmonton because it won’t cost him in real dollars, would benefit his new team, and screw over San Jose.  SJ would try to argue that they should just be on the hook for anything beyond what his current true market value is.

 

Most likely scenario is that SJ realizes through the process that that are going to lose and offer Kane a settlement to walk away and agree to just mutually terminate his contract (say 50% of his remaining salary owed).  That is also a win for them in that the league would likely just tag them for that 50% cap hit instead of the whole thing.  It is also a win for Kane because he wouldn’t generally be allowed to end up “ahead” if an arbitrator decided the case.  They would deduct his future earnings from any imposed settlement.  If it was a direct settlement between the two parties, Kane gets his payout from San Jose and is then free to make as much money as he wants on top of that.  It is the only way he could really end up with more than what he would have gotten if SJ hadn’t terminated his contract.

 

Cap hits are entirely outside this process and purely a league decision.  They have to be sweating it a little trying not to cripple a franchise in a large US market but also not wanting a mutiny from other teams.

 

Of course, San Jose might win the arbitration… signs aren’t looking good for them though and nothing has leaked indicating something truly horrific on Kane’s part.  It was really telling that Daly was on board with the termination initially and then really quickly walked back league support a few days later.  He was in CYA mode.

 

[JM_]

19 minutes ago, Provost said:

It would be a little funny, but it will never happen.

 

Kane’s camp can argue that the Sharks poisoned the employment relationship to an extent he can’t reasonably be expected to go back and work for them.

 

The worst case for San Jose I think is an arbitrator says they are on the hook for the full amount of his remaining contract minus what he earns in the meantime to mitigate his losses.  That will cause another arbitration fight because Kane could purposefully sign for league minimum in Edmonton because it won’t cost him in real dollars, would benefit his new team, and screw over San Jose.  SJ would try to argue that they should just be on the hook for anything beyond what his current true market value is.

 

Most likely scenario is that SJ realizes through the process that that are going to lose and offer Kane a settlement to walk away and agree to just mutually terminate his contract (say 50% of his remaining salary owed).  That is also a win for them in that the league would likely just tag them for that 50% cap hit instead of the whole thing.  It is also a win for Kane because he wouldn’t generally be allowed to end up “ahead” if an arbitrator decided the case.  They would deduct his future earnings from any imposed settlement.  If it was a direct settlement between the two parties, Kane gets his payout from San Jose and is then free to make as much money as he wants on top of that.  It is the only way he could really end up with more than what he would have gotten if SJ hadn’t terminated his contract.

 

Cap hits are entirely outside this process and purely a league decision.  They have to be sweating it a little trying not to cripple a franchise in a large US market but also not wanting a mutiny from other teams.

 

Of course, San Jose might win the arbitration… signs aren’t looking good for them though and nothing has leaked indicating something truly horrific on Kane’s part.  It was really telling that Daly was on board with the termination initially and then really quickly walked back league support a few days later.  He was in CYA mode.

 

I still don't get why SJS should be off the hook for anything EDM pays Kane, they owe what they owe on the contract then signed with Kane.

 

SJS should be hit with the full cap hit. I don't know why Kane would settle for 50%, if he didn't do anything wrong. 

 

[Provost]

1 minute ago, JM_ said:

I still don't get why SJS should be off the hook for anything EDM pays Kane, they owe what they owe on the contract then signed with Kane.

 

SJS should be hit with the full cap hit. I don't know why Kane would settle for 50%, if he didn't do anything wrong. 

 

It is a league decision about the cap hit and nothing to do with the arbitration.  Do you think this league would screw up the future of a large market California team?  They aren’t about fairness, they are about making money.

 

As for Kane settling for 50%, it is actually the only way he could end up ahead.  It is standard that someone wrongly terminated (of suffering any loss) is expected to show they are attempting to mitigate their losses.  They can’t just sit at home for two years waiting for the cases to send their way through the courts.  It would be the same with Kane, if he is earning money while he would otherwise be under contract with San Jose, he just doesn’t get to double dip and end up ahead.  
 

That isn’t the case if they settle, he gets to walk away with a set amount of money and SJ doesn’t get to deduct any money he earns after that from

the settlement.  Kane could end up with $3.5 million per year of the rest of his contract from a

San Jose settlement, and then a deal with another team for $5 million a year and end up with $8.5 per year total in his pocket.

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, Provost said:

It is a league decision about the cap hit and nothing to do with the arbitration.  Do you think this league would screw up the future of a large market California team?  They aren’t about fairness, they are about making money.

 

As for Kane settling for 50%, it is actually the only way he could end up ahead.  It is standard that someone wrongly terminated (of suffering any loss) is expected to show they are attempting to mitigate their losses.  They can’t just sit at home for two years waiting for the cases to send their way through the courts.  It would be the same with Kane, if he is earning money while he would otherwise be under contract with San Jose, he just doesn’t get to double dip and end up ahead.  
 

That isn’t the case if they settle, he gets to walk away with a set amount of money and SJ doesn’t get to deduct any money he earns after that from

the settlement.  Kane could end up with $3.5 million per year of the rest of his contract from a

San Jose settlement, and then a deal with another team for $5 million a year and end up with $8.5 per year total in his pocket.

good point. I just don't want to see SJS get away with it with no consequences. 

[Alflives]

IM looking forward to @-Vintage Canuck- changing this thread title to “Canucks SIGN Andrei Kuzmenko”.  

[Nucker 67]

14 hours ago, Herberts Vasiljevs said:

I've had this fantasy of late where if the Oilers are the team that lands Kuzmenko, Rutherford will exact his revenge by offersheeting Puljujarvi. 

Or Bouchard after next season.  If EDM plans on re-signing Kane ($5+?), and they sign Kuzmenko to a nice contract.

[CanucksJay]

On 5/25/2022 at 1:51 PM, JM_ said:

SJS already got away with some salary relief this year that should be hit with a recapture penalty too. 

 

Yeah. I said this in another thread but if SJ avoids caphit because a player's poor personal issues was legal grounds to get cap exemption, Canucks should get cap relief for Virtanen and  also be given cap relief on top for the cap space Virtanen buyout took this year. If the league can do a recapture penalty (a la Luongo), I don't see why it can't go both ways... 

[SilentSam]

 

 

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

 

 

Waiting to see if another team, Oilers, will have room for him? 

[SilentSam]

8 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Waiting to see if another team, Oilers, will have room for him? 

I think it’s just timing,.   And perhaps the oilers haven’t had the proper opportunity to talk to him given the fact they are continuing in the playoffs.