(Discussion) Bruce Calls it out! Our Decade long Issue.

[CanucksJay]

15 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

this team play non-chalant, non-urgent hockey on many nights. Almost like they are taking the night off. Unacceptable, especially if they are playing a HOME game. I really think it is(energy level) generated from the Captain on out and I have not seen that in decades.

 

 

 

Bang on regarding the lack of energy and urgency at home games.

That home loss to NYI and Anaheim going down 5-0 is what made me go super sour on this group. 

I said previous to SJ game that if we go 10-4 from then until TDL, I would like execs to stand pat and see what this team is capable of. The NYI first period was a shocker but they finished strong and the hope was the boys would put that in the memory bank to never let up or come out not ready to play. And then Anaheim happened. First home game with full capacity in an important game with playoff implications and they came out not ready to play again. That was very disappointing. 

Well so far we are 2-1. They may still pull it off and go 10-4 during the stretch by beating a couple of good teams like Cgy, Toronto or Tampa. 

If we lose all those games and a few more to the lesser teams, I'd be ok with front office making some moves. 

It would be a clwar signal that this team is still quite far from where we want to be. 

Its puzzling to me though. I Must have homer goggles because i think this team is pretty solid on paper.

 

 

 

 

[EdgarM]

1 hour ago, CanucksJay said:

 

Bang on regarding the lack of energy and urgency at home games.

That home loss to NYI and Anaheim going down 5-0 is what made me go super sour on this group. 

I said previous to SJ game that if we go 10-4 from then until TDL, I would like execs to stand pat and see what this team is capable of. The NYI first period was a shocker but they finished strong and the hope was the boys would put that in the memory bank to never let up or come out not ready to play. And then Anaheim happened. First home game with full capacity in an important game with playoff implications and they came out not ready to play again. That was very disappointing. 

Well so far we are 2-1. They may still pull it off and go 10-4 during the stretch by beating a couple of good teams like Cgy, Toronto or Tampa. 

If we lose all those games and a few more to the lesser teams, I'd be ok with front office making some moves. 

It would be a clwar signal that this team is still quite far from where we want to be. 

Its puzzling to me though. I Must have homer goggles because i think this team is pretty solid on paper.

 

 

 

 

This team when they play to their potential is a very good team who competes with some really good teams. The problem is that they , like you said, do not come to play on some nights. Its like they need some kind of motivation to get them going. I don't know, making millions of dollars, I thought, would be enough motivation, No? 

You are also right, we have seen them play phenomenal periods and then go without any shots for what seems like eons. Like what happens in their minds do they think well I played hard enough for ten minutes I am done now? I don't get it. 

When I watch the PP I always think, why are you not hustling to try and gain the Zone? Even when it gets dumped back in the D zone some teams can actually get the puck before we do, how does that happen? Where is the urgency? The PK is not much better. 

[EdgarM]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Yes Mitchell was our missing ingredient during our cup run.   Would have been happy if he got the C too.  Horvat was just the best option available then, Miller isn't a great option unless he re-signs.   Until then we have to just wait and see how it goes...

Yes it will be interesting to see what this new management sees as what changes are needed. I am sure they see the same inconsistencies we see from the team as well. 

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, EdgarM said:

Yes it will be interesting to see what this new management sees as what changes are needed. I am sure they see the same inconsistencies we see from the team as well. 

Sure hope so.   Gadj getting waived to me was like putting buttermilk in my morning coffee instead of cream - soured the entire pre-season for me.   Then it just got worse.   At least Keenan understood the value of pugilism and truculence in the lineup - something JB seemed to have at times near the start then simply gave up on given the trends.   Maybe it was Greens idea.   I don't know but was so happy Seattle didn't take him and then was like f!ck! when he was waived.   To make it even worse he was picked up in our own division.   That sour taste hasn't really left yet.    Throwbacks are worth their weight in gold these days.   We don't have one - not one - which we've NEVER had in all our years, player in our system.   Didn't mind Zack going knowing Gadj was here ... but he's gone too.   Ridiculous really.   Shameful too.   Know the younger generations might think this is the trend. But it's not one that wins you a cup and i seriously doubt it ever will. 

[EdgarM]

17 hours ago, IBatch said:

Sure hope so.   Gadj getting waived to me was like putting buttermilk in my morning coffee instead of cream - soured the entire pre-season for me.   Then it just got worse.   At least Keenan understood the value of pugilism and truculence in the lineup - something JB seemed to have at times near the start then simply gave up on given the trends.   Maybe it was Greens idea.   I don't know but was so happy Seattle didn't take him and then was like f!ck! when he was waived.   To make it even worse he was picked up in our own division.   That sour taste hasn't really left yet.    Throwbacks are worth their weight in gold these days.   We don't have one - not one - which we've NEVER had in all our years, player in our system.   Didn't mind Zack going knowing Gadj was here ... but he's gone too.   Ridiculous really.   Shameful too.   Know the younger generations might think this is the trend. But it's not one that wins you a cup and i seriously doubt it ever will. 

That was my thought as well. Its like we didn't want any aggression in the game at all. Maybe Bo is a product of that as I remember he did used to throw hits and did have a fight at one time. I think JB knew the importance as he brought in players such as Roussel, Ferlund and Myers but once they got here, it was like they were not permitted to play aggressive. 

Yeah Gadj was a weird situation, he barely had the chance to see if he could play in the NHL and all of sudden he was gone. 

After all that has happened, I am curious to see what this new regime see's as what the identity of the team is going to look like. I really hope they build a team made for the playoffs, big, strong, fast and the ability to play what ever game the opposition throws at them. We should never lose a game because we got outworked or out muscled to the puck, that should be Hockey 101, and every player should have that instilled in them. We have gotten so used to checking with our stick and not much body contact in the corners.

[IBatch]

23 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

That was my thought as well. Its like we didn't want any aggression in the game at all. Maybe Bo is a product of that as I remember he did used to throw hits and did have a fight at one time. I think JB knew the importance as he brought in players such as Roussel, Ferlund and Myers but once they got here, it was like they were not permitted to play aggressive. 

Yeah Gadj was a weird situation, he barely had the chance to see if he could play in the NHL and all of sudden he was gone. 

After all that has happened, I am curious to see what this new regime see's as what the identity of the team is going to look like. I really hope they build a team made for the playoffs, big, strong, fast and the ability to play what ever game the opposition throws at them. We should never lose a game because we got outworked or out muscled to the puck, that should be Hockey 101, and every player should have that instilled in them. We have gotten so used to checking with our stick and not much body contact in the corners.

Mat Boldy.  What we could of got.   And someone else.     Ugh.   I'm glad the keys have been passed to the next group but do worry that our club has been totally neutered.   Allvin.   Can you give me one example of a Swede who actually drops the gloves?   Sure there have been some "tough" Swedes.   Dating back to the 70's even.    But come on.   We are a Canadian club - named the Canucks.   We need to keep that in mind.   Like the Swedish connection but only so far.   We need those warrior types too. 

[Kevin Biestra]

23 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Mat Boldy.  What we could of got.   And someone else.     Ugh.   I'm glad the keys have been passed to the next group but do worry that our club has been totally neutered.   Allvin.   Can you give me one example of a Swede who actually drops the gloves?   Sure there have been some "tough" Swedes.   Dating back to the 70's even.    But come on.   We are a Canadian club - named the Canucks.   We need to keep that in mind.   Like the Swedish connection but only so far.   We need those warrior types too. 

 

Not many.  Maybe Ulf and Kjell Samuelsson back in the day.

 

The 1982 team had the right idea.  Five Swedes - Gradin, Molin, Eldebrink, Lindgren, Brasar  - none of them fighters really, but the Canadians cleared the ice up for them.

[IBatch]

7 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Not many.  Maybe Ulf and Kjell Samuelsson back in the day.

 

The 1982 team had the right idea.  Five Swedes - Gradin, Molin, Eldebrink, Lindgren, Brasar  - none of them fighters really, but the Canadians cleared the ice up for them.

Landeskog and Forsberg i guess ... but not like they'd drop them often.   Sundin was huge but didn't engage.    Really, it's hard to think of one Swedish NHLer, that would drop them more then Horvat (2 times so far correct?)... just doesn't happen. 

[aznmonk]

On 2/21/2022 at 11:00 AM, Goal:thecup said:

A lot of good stuff in here Sam, but I am reluctant to put it all on Horvat.

Horvat has quite a few important duties and does the team little good if he's sitting for 3rd man in, or fighting, or kicked out of the game, or suspended.

 

But he has to show up in scrums and not just stand around.

Grab a guy out of the pile and pull him aside, whatever, get in there without taking a penalty.

 

For the team, I believe we should be the instigators not the damaged kittens.

The refs hardly ever punish the overly zealous meathead wingers we should have ready to roll.

They most often catch the retaliation.

 

We don't want our best face off guys, our top stars, etc., in the box.

We don't even want our defensemen there.

4th line wingers should be in the box (with blood on their hands).

 

Bruce's 'Woe is Me' talk is very important, and we need to shake that crap off the team.

Think like winners, act like winners, and go out there and win, baby, win.

 

Thanks for posting.

Yeah! Everyone was hyped on cdc in hind sight bad move by green! It's all his fault soft coach giving captaincy to a soft player! Coach should change the captain up. New coach new coaching staff new upper management, now let's change the on ice captain to Miller! Cause it ain't Bo time to more! It's Genuine Miller time! 

[Timråfan]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Mat Boldy.  What we could of got.   And someone else.     Ugh.   I'm glad the keys have been passed to the next group but do worry that our club has been totally neutered.   Allvin.   Can you give me one example of a Swede who actually drops the gloves?   Sure there have been some "tough" Swedes.   Dating back to the 70's even.    But come on.   We are a Canadian club - named the Canucks.   We need to keep that in mind.   Like the Swedish connection but only so far.   We need those warrior types too. 

Well, Edler didn’t fight but he nailed the perpetrators to the wall after incidents.

That’s more of the swedish way. Cronwalled…

 

I don’t get why you think fighting is any good. 
If a team can’t be motivated to win without fighting they are pretty bad.

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, Timråfan said:

Well, Edler didn’t fight but he nailed the perpetrators to the wall after incidents.

That’s more of the swedish way. Cronwalled…

 

I don’t get why you think fighting is any good. 
If a team can’t be motivated to win without fighting they are pretty bad.

I never said you have to fight - and it's Kronwalled - i just realized i don't remember any Swedish player dropping the gloves much ever and found that interesting or a curiosity.   Why should the Canadians and US players be the only ones willing to go that far to inspire their teams?   Landeskog and Forsberg probably are their best at it lol...why would we expect a leadership group comprised of civility to get us to the cup?  

[RolexSub]

I said it before that we lack intensity and physical plays and leadership and especially when Bo turned away when Podz was nailed head on open ice and he did nothing and just skated away...and our newest Canuck OEL came to Podz aid and got punched...I knew at that point we needed a new captain. I was disappointed in Bo and I agree we need a Captain like Smyl/Linden type of player to lead the team. JT really fits that category in my opinion. 

[Timråfan]

51 minutes ago, IBatch said:

I never said you have to fight - and it's Kronwalled - i just realized i don't remember any Swedish player dropping the gloves much ever and found that interesting or a curiosity.   Why should the Canadians and US players be the only ones willing to go that far to inspire their teams?   Landeskog and Forsberg probably are their best at it lol...why would we expect a leadership group comprised of civility to get us to the cup?  

We have harder regulations in Sweden and we have definately not the ”staged” fights you got over there. 
use the hip for hits is the old school here but now it’s more like NA. 

[Isam]

3 hours ago, IBatch said:

Mat Boldy.  What we could of got.   And someone else.     Ugh.   I'm glad the keys have been passed to the next group but do worry that our club has been totally neutered.   Allvin.   Can you give me one example of a Swede who actually drops the gloves?   Sure there have been some "tough" Swedes.   Dating back to the 70's even.    But come on.   We are a Canadian club - named the Canucks.   We need to keep that in mind.   Like the Swedish connection but only so far.   We need those warrior types too. 

Dumb comment man and you should know better. Borje salming was willing to drop the gloves with schultz and bridgeman on the broad street bullies. Gunler a new prospect is a firebrand. Franzen dropped the mitts and they are warriors. You dont think the sedins are tough. They are some of the toughest players to lace up skates. Viktor hedman is a beast. Oh yes, it all comes down to the final fight just like in youngblood right

[EdgarM]

1 hour ago, RolexSub said:

I said it before that we lack intensity and physical plays and leadership and especially when Bo turned away when Podz was nailed head on open ice and he did nothing and just skated away...and our newest Canuck OEL came to Podz aid and got punched...I knew at that point we needed a new captain. I was disappointed in Bo and I agree we need a Captain like Smyl/Linden type of player to lead the team. JT really fits that category in my opinion. 

This is exactly it! Why did no one get into a fight with Nazzy or Hank? They didn't play intense or physical enough for someone to confront them. Rarely does Bo do it either. In fact, many players are like that on the team, they don't get in the dirty areas so why would anyone engage them? 

Its a culture of "don't engage and no one will react"! No wonder Marchand thought he could get away with what he did to Daniel he knew with out a doubt, no one would engage him, and they didn't.

I guess saying the team lacks "toughness" is the wrong description, it should be more like they lack "Intensity and physicality". The willingness to do what ever it takes to win a game , even if it meant putting themselves in harms way.

[RolexSub]

On 2/24/2022 at 1:58 PM, EdgarM said:

This is exactly it! Why did no one get into a fight with Nazzy or Hank? They didn't play intense or physical enough for someone to confront them. Rarely does Bo do it either. In fact, many players are like that on the team, they don't get in the dirty areas so why would anyone engage them? 

Its a culture of "don't engage and no one will react"! No wonder Marchand thought he could get away with what he did to Daniel he knew with out a doubt, no one would engage him, and they didn't.

I guess saying the team lacks "toughness" is the wrong description, it should be more like they lack "Intensity and physicality". The willingness to do what ever it takes to win a game , even if it meant putting themselves in harms way.

We should start a thread on who the new captain should be that can lead by example on the ice playing hard, physical, and intensity on every shift... just like how the Steamer and Linden played and lead their teams to Stanley Cup finals. 

Edited February 27, 2022 by RolexSub

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, RolexSub said:

We should start a thread on who the new captain should be that can lead by example on the ice playing hard, physical, and intensity on every shift... just like how the Steamer and Linden played and lead their teams to Stanley Cup finals. 

Kind of like how Bo plays, right?  Straight lines, honest and heavy, and  doesn't cheat.  Bo is a great captain and player.  We love the Ox.  

[EdgarM]

On 2/24/2022 at 12:29 PM, RolexSub said:

I said it before that we lack intensity and physical plays and leadership and especially when Bo turned away when Podz was nailed head on open ice and he did nothing and just skated away...and our newest Canuck OEL came to Podz aid and got punched...I knew at that point we needed a new captain. I was disappointed in Bo and I agree we need a Captain like Smyl/Linden type of player to lead the team. JT really fits that category in my opinion. 

And..........back to the passive, less intense hockey against NJ. Miller was the only one that appeared p!ssed at what was going on but no one did anything about it. Things really need to change on this team.

[CanucksJay]

Good response by the boys tonight

BB said that the woe is me feeling wasnt on the bench tonight.  They kept making the right plays and gettign the puck behind their defence.

Hopefully, Bruce's message is sinking in with the team. 

Brock had a great interview today. He was talkign about the difference pre BB vs now and the main thing he attributes the success to was that they are now working harder.

He caught himself to add that it's not that they werent working hard before but the jist is, they are now working harder.

LOL anyone still defending Green? How is it that Bruce is now here teaching our guys how they need to approach the game and come ready? 

What the hell happened before BB then?

BB is also a players coach but he brings accountability and truth along with a superior system. He commented that in NJ, they couldnt make passes, they were backign up and giving NJ space to make plays etc. Tonight, he liked how they were pressing forward. I love how he bluntly says, he cant teach the guys how to pass. That's an expected skill when reachign the NHL.  BB is coachign to the strategy like pressing and attacking which is what we need a coach to do. 

The guys were completely engaged when NYI took a timeout with goalie pulled. Team has bought in. Hopefully, we give it a good run up until TDL and let the chips fall where they may.  What's unfortunate is that they are playing great hockey right now. In fact playing at a 111 pt pace  They had duds againt NYI, Ana and NJ.  That's 3 out of 31 games under BB where they weren't prepared. That's a huge improvement from about 8 or 9 out of 25 that they werent prepared under TG. A full training camp and season under BB and this team is a 1-3 seed in the West

 

 

[filthycanuck]

On 2/21/2022 at 11:04 AM, NUCKER67 said:

This is why I'd be for trading Bo, re-signing Miller and then giving him the C. 

 

The team is without an identity, and I think Horvat, as the captain, is partly the reason. He displays little emotion and a must-win-at-all-costs attitude, like a captain should. He doesn't drag his team into the fight. He's leaving that up to Miller, Garland, Motte, Highmore, Lammikko...the list goes on. Where's the captain when they need a goal or a spark?  He disappears too often IMO.   

 

 

Horvat has been a great captain and Im pretty ok with him being on the team. That being said, he hasn't been as impactful this season as he has in previous years. It seems like at the biggest moments, most times JT comes up in the spotlight with Bo being late to the party