HKSR Posted March 3, 2022 Share Posted March 3, 2022 (edited) A 2 step trade... Trade 1 To: ARZ Miller Rathbone 3rd (WPG) To: VAN Chychrun Crouse 2nd (ARZ) Trade 2 To: TBL Miller (50% retained) To: ARZ Foote Palat Seabrook 1st Round Pick VAN in: Chychrun, Crouse, 2nd (ARZ) VAN out: Miller, Rathbone, 3rd (WPG) ARZ in: Rathbone, Foote, Palat, Seabrook, 1st, 3rd (WPG) ARZ out: Chychrun, Crouse, 2nd (ARZ) TBL in: Miller (50%) TBL out: Foote, Palat, Seabrook, 1st VAN gets 2 young and very established NHLers in Chychrun and Crouse, along with ARZ's 2nd round pick (which is basically a late 1st rounder). Chychrun gives VAN one of the strongest LHD groups in the entire league, a model that TBL knows well (Hedman, Sergachev, Mcdonaugh). Crouse is a fantastic forward with very good size and skating ability. Canucks don't have a 2nd round pick this year, so the ARZ 2nd would be great! ARZ gains 2 top tier prospects in Rathbone and Foote, veteran UFA Palat, a 1st round pick and a 3rd round pick. The important thing here is assuming Seabrook's contract is insured, the Coyotes can use him to hit the cap floor easily, while paying a minimal amount of his contract. TBL gets Miller @ 50% retained for 2 playoff runs. Could very well solidify their claim to a true dynasty if they win another cup or two in these next 2 years. Edited March 3, 2022 by HKSR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted March 3, 2022 Author Share Posted March 3, 2022 Hogs-Petey-Podz Pearson-Bo-Boeser Crouse-Dickinson-Garland Highmore-Lammiko-Motte Hughes-Schenn Chychrun-Hamonic OEL-Myers Burroughs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucker 67 Posted March 3, 2022 Share Posted March 3, 2022 (edited) What about Boeser for Chychrun straight up? Let's face it, Boeser is not going to lead the mighty Coyotes to a Cup. Chychrun, though, is still only 23 and will get better over time. I think he'd thrive in VAN. Canucks need better D, not a slow, streaky goal scorer looking for a big raise. Edited March 3, 2022 by NUCKER67 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted March 3, 2022 Author Share Posted March 3, 2022 4 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said: What about Boeser for Chychrun straight up? Let's face it, Boeser is not going to lead the mighty Coyotes to a Cup. Chychrun, though, is still only 23 and will get better over time. I think he'd thrive in VAN. Canucks need better D, not a slow, streaky goal scorer looking for a big raise. People have said Boeser is not the kinda player ARZ wants right now. They want to not pay much actual money, but have the cap hits to hit the cap floor while building up prospects and picks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eeeeergh Posted March 3, 2022 Share Posted March 3, 2022 Arizona doesn't want players - they want picks, and players that have high salary cap hits but low actual salary commitments, so they can ice a team but pay as little actual $ as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dm_ranger Posted March 3, 2022 Share Posted March 3, 2022 35 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said: What about Boeser for Chychrun straight up? Let's face it, Boeser is not going to lead the mighty Coyotes to a Cup. Chychrun, though, is still only 23 and will get better over time. I think he'd thrive in VAN. Canucks need better D, not a slow, streaky goal scorer looking for a big raise. What about Boeser 50% retained straight up? He isn't going to sign long term in Arizona, so then Arizona flips him at %50 again at the deadline. Boeser at 1.5 cap hit would be worth a lot so Arizona gets its haul there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammertime Posted March 3, 2022 Share Posted March 3, 2022 38 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said: What about Boeser for Chychrun straight up? It's absolutely amazing to me how people here over esimate the value of Brock on here. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billabong Posted March 3, 2022 Share Posted March 3, 2022 Chychrun is the best D on the market and the asking price is supposed to be scarey BIG Can we do make a better offer than the rangers or Florida? probably not, but it comes down a willingness to do so. Arizona probably wants a young roster player, grade - A prospect and a 1st rounder + now they also need players to play next year and cause they only have 8 players under contract for next year (including chychrun) and they know they wont have players lining up to play there next year in free agency. The thing we are missing is the grade - A prospect which might force us to offer quantity more so than quality To Ari: Hamonic, Hoglander, Rathbone, 1st round pick 2022 (probably 11-15th overall) To Van: Chychrun I still doubt that'll get it done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownUndaCanuck Posted March 4, 2022 Share Posted March 4, 2022 Our 1st round pick might be particularly valuable to the Coyotes. Most teams wanting to trade are surely going to have quite a low 1st whereas we may give them one in the top-15. Brock + 1st + Rathbone + Poolman + Dickinson for Chychrun + Crouse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTramFan Posted March 4, 2022 Share Posted March 4, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, HKSR said: A 2 step trade... Trade 1 To: ARZ Miller Rathbone 3rd (WPG) To: VAN Chychrun Crouse 2nd (ARZ) Trade 2 To: TBL Miller (50% retained) To: ARZ Foote Palat Seabrook 1st Round Pick Very creative. I like it. I think it also assists all 3 teams in their current stages of rebuilding and contending. And I think the value is close to fair. To improve the fairness I think TBL would have to pay a little more for Miller 50% retained and dumping the Seabrook contract. They should be adding a prospect such as Finley. And I would think that it would be fairer value if the 2nd and 3rd round picks don't get exchanged between VAN and ARZ in trade 1 (although I'd like the 2nd from ARZ!). For VAN the key question is - can we find a way to fully utilise Chychrun, given we already have OEL and Hughes at LD. Can one of these guys switch to their offside? And how well will that work? ARZ ends up with basically two young NHL ready Dmen on low cap hits, plus a another 1st round pick and a prospect in Finley. They will like that Palat expires at the end of this season and should be able to retain salary and flip him at the TDL to a contender in exchange for another high-ish pick. They will also like Seabrook and his LTIR contract which will help them hit the cap floor but will not cost them in actual salary (assuming Seabrook is insured). For TBL they are going to miss Foote on their bottom pairing, but I guess they can find a cheap RD before the TDL that could fill that spot. Edited March 4, 2022 by BigTramFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwijibo Posted March 4, 2022 Share Posted March 4, 2022 5 hours ago, billabong said: Chychrun is the best D on the market and the asking price is supposed to be scarey BIG Can we do make a better offer than the rangers or Florida? probably not, but it comes down a willingness to do so. Arizona probably wants a young roster player, grade - A prospect and a 1st rounder + now they also need players to play next year and cause they only have 8 players under contract for next year (including chychrun) and they know they wont have players lining up to play there next year in free agency. The thing we are missing is the grade - A prospect which might force us to offer quantity more so than quality To Ari: Hamonic, Hoglander, Rathbone, 1st round pick 2022 (probably 11-15th overall) To Van: Chychrun I still doubt that'll get it done The cost of Chychrun is going to hurt whatever team that pays it. This proposal doesn’t particularly hurt. They dump cap, a sophomore player who doesn’t seem to fit with the new coach, an undersized D prospect and a 1st. Look what other teams fans think it will cost them to get him. It’s a lot higher quality assets than this provides Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_314 Posted March 4, 2022 Share Posted March 4, 2022 Why does Tampa dump Palat when he's already a pending UFA (and if they want they wouldn't lack suitors to trade for him)? Seabrook's LTIR is also what enables them to exceed the cap, so they have no need to dump either of them. Miller would be an icing on the cake move, but they don't REALLY need him, esp. not at the cost of dumping Foote and a 1st. I also think Miller's value is overrated in the OP, since him for Chychrun would probably be even, then Crouse and 2nd would be greater than Rathbone and 3rd. In short, while I think it's creative that you used Tampa's indirect trade approach (team A takes % of cap, team B takes % of cap...) I really don't see Tampa making that move, esp. when considering that Palat is the first line LW on TB's repeat Cup winning team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BPA Posted March 4, 2022 Share Posted March 4, 2022 If Canucks do go on a run before TDL…maybe JR decides to be bold and go big. 1st 2022 + 1st 2023 + Rathbone + Klim + Dickinson + Poolman for Crouse + Chychrun. Canucks pretty much empty the prospect pool. Pearson Miller Boeser Crouse EP Hogz Podz Bo Garland Motte Lamm Highmore QH Schenn OEL Myers Chychrun Hamonic Demko Halak meh… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted March 4, 2022 Author Share Posted March 4, 2022 (edited) 10 hours ago, Phil_314 said: Why does Tampa dump Palat when he's already a pending UFA (and if they want they wouldn't lack suitors to trade for him)? Seabrook's LTIR is also what enables them to exceed the cap, so they have no need to dump either of them. Miller would be an icing on the cake move, but they don't REALLY need him, esp. not at the cost of dumping Foote and a 1st. I also think Miller's value is overrated in the OP, since him for Chychrun would probably be even, then Crouse and 2nd would be greater than Rathbone and 3rd. In short, while I think it's creative that you used Tampa's indirect trade approach (team A takes % of cap, team B takes % of cap...) I really don't see Tampa making that move, esp. when considering that Palat is the first line LW on TB's repeat Cup winning team. Miller is worth it for ARZ because they're able to flip him with 50% retained (adding $2.6M to their cap without actually having to pay him) for more young assets (Foote, 1st). They also gain Seabrook's contract that I'm assuming is insured, so again, they add major cap without having to actually pay much. The combination of retaining on Miller and Seabrook is over $9M in cap, but they pay a fraction of that. They gain a LHD and RHD young pairing in one fell swoop that will likely play with them for the next decade. TBL gets Miller @ 50% for 2 runs. He's younger and better than Palat, and at $2.6M for 2 years, they could still add to their roster. Palat holds value for ARZ in that they can move him for more assets. They wouldn't keep him. I guess that's Part 3 to this, but I didn't feel like going that far ... but they could probably flip him to a team like Minny, NYR, Florida, etc @ 50% retained for a 1st round pick + 3rd. So for ARZ, it looks like: IN: Rathbone, Foote, Seabrook, 1st, 1st, 3rd (WPG), 3rd OUT: Chychrun, Crouse, 2nd (ARZ) They would have FIVE 1st round picks, FOUR 2nd round picks, and three 3rd round picks. Not to mention 2 young higher end defense prospects, and an insured LTIR contract for their cap. This is TONS of value for losing Chychrun, Crouse, and a 2nd. PS - Unloading Seabrook and Palat for TBL means they wouldn't need to worry about cap space. In fact, they theoretically could probably re-sign Miller on a long term deal too if they wanted. I'll let @mll chime in about LTIR lol Edited March 4, 2022 by HKSR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted March 4, 2022 Author Share Posted March 4, 2022 9 hours ago, BPA said: If Canucks do go on a run before TDL…maybe JR decides to be bold and go big. 1st 2022 + 1st 2023 + Rathbone + Klim + Dickinson + Poolman for Crouse + Chychrun. Canucks pretty much empty the prospect pool. Pearson Miller Boeser Crouse EP Hogz Podz Bo Garland Motte Lamm Highmore QH Schenn OEL Myers Chychrun Hamonic Demko Halak meh… The salary cap says hi... haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_314 Posted March 4, 2022 Share Posted March 4, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, HKSR said: Miller is worth it for ARZ because they're able to flip him with 50% retained (adding $2.6M to their cap without actually having to pay him) for more young assets (Foote, 1st). They also gain Seabrook's contract that I'm assuming is insured, so again, they add major cap without having to actually pay much. The combination of retaining on Miller and Seabrook is over $9M in cap, but they pay a fraction of that. They gain a LHD and RHD young pairing in one fell swoop that will likely play with them for the next decade. TBL gets Miller @ 50% for 2 runs. He's younger and better than Palat, and at $2.6M for 2 years, they could still add to their roster. Palat holds value for ARZ in that they can move him for more assets. They wouldn't keep him. I guess that's Part 3 to this, but I didn't feel like going that far ... but they could probably flip him to a team like Minny, NYR, Florida, etc @ 50% retained for a 1st round pick + 3rd. So for ARZ, it looks like: IN: Rathbone, Foote, Seabrook, 1st, 1st, 3rd (WPG), 3rd OUT: Chychrun, Crouse, 2nd (ARZ) They would have FIVE 1st round picks, FOUR 2nd round picks, and three 3rd round picks. Not to mention 2 young higher end defense prospects, and an insured LTIR contract for their cap. This is TONS of value for losing Chychrun, Crouse, and a 2nd. PS - Unloading Seabrook and Palat for TBL means they wouldn't need to worry about cap space. In fact, they theoretically could probably re-sign Miller on a long term deal too if they wanted. I'll let @mll chime in about LTIR lol That bold was all that I needed to read, sorry but you lost all credibility in your argument when you didn't know that they brought in Seabrook for his artificial salary cap bump that, again, enables them to pass the cap ceiling, so his contract isn't one that burdens their cap space. Also, Tampa's not going to be a seller, including again their top line LW in Palat. Say what you want about Miller being better but they have no reason to fix what isn't broken (in this case, their top line). Edited March 4, 2022 by Phil_314 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted March 4, 2022 Author Share Posted March 4, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Phil_314 said: That bold was all that I needed to read, sorry but you lost all credibility in your argument when you didn't know that they brought in Seabrook for his artificial salary cap bump that, again, enables them to pass the cap ceiling, so his contract isn't one that burdens their cap space. Also, Tampa's not going to be a seller, including again their top line LW in Palat. Say what you want about Miller being better but they have no reason to fix what isn't broken (in this case, their top line). No, I don't think you understand how LTIR works. Like I said, @mll can fill you in. Bottomline is that moving out Seabrook and Palat frees up over $12M in cap for them. Goto CapFriendly and add up all the numbers for forwards, defence, goalies, and LTIR and you'll see it comes to the $89M cap hit presented. Then take away Seabrook and Palat's cap hits. You'll be down to $77M. Tampa isn't selling. They're upgrading. You can keep Palat at $5M+ this year and lose him for nothing in the offseason, or you can have Miller for $2.6M for 2 playoff runs. I know which one I'd be taking. Edited March 4, 2022 by HKSR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erkayloomeh Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 I've got a question. Can teams trade money? Didn't the oilers get a bunch of money in the Gretzky trade. I'm guessing with cap now that's not allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwijibo Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 6 minutes ago, erkayloomeh said: I've got a question. Can teams trade money? Didn't the oilers get a bunch of money in the Gretzky trade. I'm guessing with cap now that's not allowed. No. It hasn’t been allowed for decades 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowboy644 Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 The Canucks could add Ferlands LTIR in a trade package if AZ wants it.Also if the Canucks some how got Chychrun they could flip him for a high quality right shot defenseman.Maybe not on par with Chychruns caliber because top quality right shot D are far and few between but close to value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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