[PGT] Arizona Coyotes at Vancouver Canucks | Apr. 14, 2022

[bishopshodan]

2 minutes ago, stawns said:

He is now, what's he going to be in 5-8 years from now because they still have to pay him a massive cap hit

How many cups will we have by then?

 

[Elias Pettersson]

Just now, stawns said:

Teams don't do that?

Yes, they do.  However, if the Rangers were going to trade picks and prospects for a rental they would have done it at the trade deadline to go for a Cup this year and next year.  Their trade proposal in the summer won't be the same as it was 6 weeks ago.

[JM_]

1 minute ago, stawns said:

Too many people mesmerized by the now, without looking down the road

Sure and the grass is always greener down the road too. 

 

None of the Miller trade deal ideas are risk free or guaranteed to bring a better team.

[CaptKirk888]

9 minutes ago, mikeyman109 said:

Petey while being younger and having a good timeline doesnt bring what Miller does for this team yet.

What i dont understand from your argument is why we cant have both. Theres enough cap space if we lose Boesers contract.and even some space to add another player if we need to.

Exactly, signing Miller at 9 mil doesn’t add 9 mil to the cap.

[stawns]

1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said:

In 5-8 years we may all be dead, who cares!!  

 

I want to win a Cup now, not pray that we are a contender 8 years from now...

They're not winning a Cup now, they have too many weak spots and not enough depth.  I love this team, but because I can see where they can go in a few years

[ShawnAntoski]

1 hour ago, CaptKirk888 said:

What player doesn’t want to win a cup? Maybe he likes his role here.

 

My point: with his desire to win the cup will he be willing to give the Canucks a discount to stay when they are barely a wildcard team or take the $ & stay ? 

Canucks have a few good pieces in place but they lack the depth to really  compete and there current cap situation leaves a lot of questions, as to where the cap space will come from to improve the roster.  Allvin has alot of work to do and I am just enjoying the playoff chase.

[stawns]

1 minute ago, bishopshodan said:

How many cups will we have by then?

 

None probably

[bishopshodan]

2 minutes ago, CaptKirk888 said:

So you’re saying if they had a Cinderella run and by some miracle won the cup, you don’t want that. It would be better to struggle in the playoffs for a few years first, because then they earned it.

I dont care if we suck for 10 years after winning a cup.

 

Just once in my lifetime please, that's all I ask.

[grandmaster]

Ignoring all these trade Miller posts. Please stop!

 

Anyways, how about that game last night? 
 

Even if we don’t make the playoffs, this team is learning to compete at a high level and that will certainly be brought in at the start of next season.
 

This would have been a definite playoff year if JB acted and fired Green a month sooner (he is the worst GM at dealing with time sensitive issues).

This team will finish strong and BB will be re-signed. I can’t see how management will go elsewhere for a coach. Alvin can’t be that selfish to want his own choice behind the bench. Go with what works!

[mikeyman109]

1 minute ago, JM_ said:

Sure and the grass is always greener down the road too. 

 

None of the Miller trade deal ideas are risk free or guaranteed to bring a better team.

This is what I am saying. Trading someone who is performing now for players that MIGHT develop is risky as hell and we cant get Miller back if they dont pan out

[bishopshodan]

Just now, stawns said:

None probably

We'll never find out if we let him go...

[mll]

1 hour ago, guntrix said:

He won't. Why would he? Everything points towards Miller wanting the best contract possible, and it's understandable:

 

1. He's had relatively cheap contracts for the entirety of his career. This will be his moneyball contract.

2. He doesn't have hometown links with Vancouver. There's not going to be a hometown discount. 

3. His agent is clearly looking for Miller to get the best deal possible. 

 

The problem with Miller isn't his talent, he's clearly our best player right now. I just don't know if paying a player 9-10 million well into his 30s will be best for the team. 

 

If he's chasing money he's at risk of being in the same situation as Erik Karlsson.  Some of those top contenders like Pittsburgh, Washington are at the tail end of their windows and will likely soon be facing a rebuild.  Miller comes across as extremely competitive and I would think that he will also want to have more than just a few tries left.

 

Promising teams like Colorado, Florida have already identified their core and can't see them paying him over MacKinnon, Huberdeau/Weegar.  Even NYR have already committed long term to Panarin, Zibanejad, Trouba etc.  For those teams his value was more the 2x playoffs runs at an incredible cap hit, but have a harder time seeing them giving him that retirement contract.

 

Rebuilding teams (Arizona, Anaheim, Chicago) or those building around cores just as young if not younger than Vancouver (NJD, Buffalo, CBJ, etc) don't make much sense.

 

Then there are the teams with no cap space like SJS or Minnesota.  Guerin doesn't even want to trade futures (says they'll need them to weather those buyout years).  SJS has ambition but they are stuck with all those retirement contracts handed out.  Vegas, Toronto, Tampa seem to be also running out of cap space.

 

Armstrong says he prefers to have a lot of good players than pay for 1 or 2 superstars - lists cap management as one of the 5 reasons they finally won the Cup. Carolina's AGM Eric Tulsky did a lot of work on ageing curves so hard to see them committing to Miller given his conclusions.  There's not that many teams left.  

 

I don't think Allvin is lying when he says he'd like to try and keep Miller.  He won't get paid that mega deal but they have arguments to convince him.  There's a pretty long runway with Pettersson/Hughes/Demko already so good and with still room to grow.  He has a key role on and off the ice - has been their go-to player and has strong influence in the room.  

 

Aside from Karlsson, there's also Taylor Hall - he was asking the moon and never got the contract he hoped.  Jones wanted to get paid and now Chicago has announced they are rebuilding.  Vancouver has a much clearer path than a team that could abruptly change course.

 

Edited April 15, 2022 by mll

[bishopshodan]

Just now, grandmaster said:

Anyways, how about that game last night? 

Miller played great last night. 

[-DLC-]

6 minutes ago, stawns said:

Too many people mesmerized by the now, without looking down the road

But we don't hold the power to foresee the future, no one does. And, just as JT MAY decline in 5-8 years, the return for him may also not be what we expect in 5-8 years.

 

It's ALL unknown and  speculation.

 

What we DO KNOW is what we have in JT in respect to the here and now. How he's helping this team regain some confidence and momentum and by way of that, our future stars performance and production (well, obviously coach B too).

 

Not mesmerized...it's something to take note of. 

 

[stawns]

1 minute ago, JM_ said:

Sure and the grass is always greener down the road too. 

 

None of the Miller trade deal ideas are risk free or guaranteed to bring a better team.

Who said it was risk free?  It adds depth and strength to areas that desperately need it however.

 

Again, I think there's very little chance that Milker signs in Van, so I want to move him and get something for him.  

[Elias Pettersson]

15 minutes ago, stawns said:

Why is it terrible.  Lundqvist is a great, young dman, chytil is big, fast and has good hands and is still young and developing........he's not replacing Miller, he'd be 3C behind Bo and Petey.

 

Still better than getting nothing when Miller walks isn't it?

Of course it is better than getting nothing.  However, is that the bar we are setting now, just trade Miller so we get something?  How about just keeping him instead and adding some players around him and go for a Cup or two?

[JM_]

1 minute ago, stawns said:

Who said it was risk free?  It adds depth and strength to areas that desperately need it however.

Maybe 

 

1 minute ago, stawns said:

Again, I think there's very little chance that Milker signs in Van, so I want to move him and get something for him.  

We don't need to trade him this offseason

[mikeyman109]

2 minutes ago, stawns said:

Who said it was risk free?  It adds depth and strength to areas that desperately need it however.

 

Again, I think there's very little chance that Milker signs in Van, so I want to move him and get something for him.  

So if he does sign here and he gets 9 Millions , deserved you are ok with that especially as he wont affect the salary cap that much?

[Zhukini]

29 minutes ago, CaptKirk888 said:

This is not a one off. Miller averaged over a point a game in his first 2 years here. Now he is just getting better. Why will he suddenly regress so quickly in the next 3-4 years? 

Father Time?

[Zhukini]

33 minutes ago, Jayinblack said:

It's called prime years for a reason...  and he has at least a few of those left.

Sure, give him a 3 year deal. Anything more and you're taking away from this roster.