[PGT] Arizona Coyotes at Vancouver Canucks | Apr. 14, 2022

[khay]

6 minutes ago, mll said:

LE's environment on the ice changed significantly in Vancouver and he wasn't able to adjust.

 

LE played with Krejci who was an amazing playmaker.  In Vancouver his C was mostly Sutter.  Benning thought Sutter had more offensive upside and was simply stuck behind Crosby/Malkin - turns out he was solid defensive C and didn't have that untapped playmaking skills.

 

The Sedins play down low and LE too, was known for being a garbage goal scorer.  A forward had to stay up high and that's not where he typically plays.  The chemistry with the Sedins was overstated.  They played at most 4 games together on the international stage before he signed.  Vancouver was regularly in the playoffs so they hardly ever played in the worlds at the same time.  For the Olympics, LE was a late addition the 1st time and the 2nd time Henrik was injured.

 

To add, LE was never a play driver like Miller. He was great around the net and scored a lot of garbage goals as a result.

 

Going to the net means you have to take punishments and as he aged and once he got the retirement deal from the Canucks, he wasn't as motivated to take those punishments and stopped doing one thing that made him successful.

 

Miller is a play driver and doesn't depend on having to go to the net to be effective. I'd say re-sign Miller unless his contract demands are unreasonable.

 

[-DLC-]

2 minutes ago, CaptKirk888 said:

That is a terrible comparison. Loui should never have been paid $6 mil based on his previous 3 years production in Boston. Just because he had a it of a bounce back season with a whopping 63 points (his career best being 73 points 5 years prior)

People have to let go of the past, it's called anxiety to stay stuck on past events and let them decide future ones. Sure, you can learn from them but you don't have to avoid things because some other things didn't work out. Fall off the bike? Get back on there and ride.

 

And Loui is NOT JT.

[Darius]

Making a couple of assumptions here (and maybe im out to lunch on these 2 assumptions)

 

1. Miller will ask for around 9 million

2. A reasonable expectation for players making around 9 million would be that they stay in top 20 NHL scoring for the duration of their contract.  Lets cap the contract at 5 years.

 

It will be interesting to see how many players in the past 20 years were over 30 and stayed in top 20 scoring in the NHL from age 31-35.  I can think of the legends like Hull, Oates, Lemieux, and im sure there are some 'regulars' in there too...but i suspect its relatively rare.  To make it even more rare it would be interesting to see if any of these guys had a career year at 29 and maintained roughly that same level (living up to the contract of the career year) for the next 5 years.

 

Im not saying that Miller cant be one of the guys that maintains the same level of play, or even improves...but I think that management needs to play the odds here.

 

[guntrix]

5 minutes ago, CaptKirk888 said:

That is a terrible comparison. Loui should never have been paid $6 mil based on his previous 3 years production in Boston. Just because he had a it of a bounce back season with a whopping 63 points (his career best being 73 points 5 years prior)

The cap hit is proportional. Miller's not signing for anything less than $9 million. 

 

Miller's decline will also be noticeable over time. People have to realize 2022 Miller won't be the same as 2028-2029 Miller. But we'll be stuck with the same contract. That, essentially, is the core of the problem and why we can't be using tunnel vision when signing 7+ year contracts. 

 

1 minute ago, CaptKirk888 said:

That wasn’t your original point. You said he hadn’t had a big contract and would be seeking financial security. The guy is rich.

and no one is asking him to be under paid. But there are plenty on this board saying will be too expensive and be an anchor in a few years....

That was absolutely my point. I advise to look up at how many athletes have gone public about finding a job after their end of their athletic career. It's a thing. Sure, maybe it's because of bad spending habits or a costly quality of life, but the narrative about securing your financial future through these 15-ish years of productivity is a very real thing. 

[-DLC-]

15 minutes ago, guntrix said:

That's like telling someone it's okay to continue to be massively underpaid for their skill set because they've earned well enough. Makes no sense. 

Which is why decisions will be made.

 

There's also something more than just money to consider in accepting higher wages in job offers. It's not just a matter of money...where will you move to? And your family to? You're giving up some great coworkers...who are the new ones? Will your role change? You're considered and treated as a top dog, will you assume a lesser role?  Will a new system at work impact your performance? 

[mikeyman109]

2 minutes ago, Darius said:

Making a couple of assumptions here (and maybe im out to lunch on these 2 assumptions)

 

1. Miller will ask for around 9 million

2. A reasonable expectation for players making around 9 million would be that they stay in top 20 NHL scoring for the duration of their contract.  Lets cap the contract at 5 years.

 

It will be interesting to see how many players in the past 20 years were over 30 and stayed in top 20 scoring in the NHL from age 31-35.  I can think of the legends like Hull, Oates, Lemieux, and im sure there are some 'regulars' in there too...but i suspect its relatively rare.  To make it even more rare it would be interesting to see if any of these guys had a career year at 29 and maintained roughly that same level (living up to the contract of the career year) for the next 5 years.

 

Im not saying that Miller cant be one of the guys that maintains the same level of play, or even improves...but I think that management needs to play the odds here.

 

Hull Oates and Lemieux did not play in todays NHL with todays salaries. Players of those calibre would be looking at 11 Million or more in todays league

[Jayinblack]

57 minutes ago, Zhukini said:

Sure, give him a 3 year deal. Anything more and you're taking away from this roster. 

No player in his position (age wise or family wise) is going to take a 3 year deal from any team.

[Jaimito]

13 hours ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

 

That's why we want 5. 

[-DLC-]

1 minute ago, guntrix said:

The cap hit is proportional. Miller's not signing for anything less than $9 million. 

 

 

Did he text you this or his wife?  "Yes Ma'am"

[buddhahoodlum]

3 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Wayne Gretzky and Taylor Hall. Both have the same thing in common. Both played for the Oilers. 
 

So I guess there is one team in the NHL that is dumb enough to trade its superstars. 
 

Is McJesus the next one to get traded?

I'd give 'em Raymond, Ballard & a 1st. 

[guntrix]

Just now, -DLC- said:

Did he text you this or his wife?  "Yes Ma'am"

Just being practical, Debbie. 

 

At the end of the day, no CDC pipe dream will stop Miller and his agent if what they want a pay day.

 

In the words of Miller's agent, "Show me the money!"

[CaptKirk888]

44 minutes ago, mll said:

Rangers traded Buchnevich because of concerns over an upcoming cap crunch.  Fox, Zibanejad, Panarin and Trouba are all at 8M and more.  

Yes, but he wasn’t their point leader and assistant captain either. The players you mentioned made it easier for them. We don’t have a few J.T.s already.

[ShawnAntoski]

48 minutes ago, mll said:

Rangers traded Buchnevich because of concerns over an upcoming cap crunch.  Fox, Zibanejad, Panarin and Trouba are all at 8M and more.  

Not sure I agree, with the Rags current cap issues cause according to Capfriendly they have approximately 4.9 million in cap for the rest of the year.  My point: Rags are starting there compete window, they have prospect depth and might be willing to revisit a Miller trade ?

 

Buchnevich was set to become a FA but I get it and perhaps, they would rather spend the $ on someone else: Kakko ?   

Edited April 15, 2022 by ShawnAntoski

[-DLC-]

3 minutes ago, guntrix said:

Just being practical, Debbie. 

 

At the end of the day, no CDC pipe dream will stop Miller and his agent if what they want a pay day.

 

In the words of Miller's agent, "Show me the money!"

You can't speak for him in a "will/won't" way. None of us can, or should.

 

His agent said that, sure....he cashes in when Miller does. Miller has his own brain and it's obvious that he's pretty strong minded and capable of deciding and speaking for himself. Well, after consulting with his wife of course. (Love the "yes ma'am" answer...so good)

 

 

[Goal:thecup]

1 hour ago, stawns said:

Who said it was risk free?  It adds depth and strength to areas that desperately need it however.

 

Again, I think there's very little chance that Milker signs in Van, so I want to move him and get something for him.  

[Jayinblack]

3 minutes ago, -DLC- said:

Did he text you this or his wife?  "Yes Ma'am"

That's what i'm hoping for... Mrs.Miller to want to stay in Van

[Darius]

1 minute ago, mikeyman109 said:

Hull Oates and Lemieux did not play in todays NHL with todays salaries. Players of those calibre would be looking at 11 Million or more in todays league

I think this kinda bolsters my position though....its mostly the cream of the crop players, the highest calibre, that can keep producing from ages 31-35.  Its rare we find guys that have career years in their late 20s , and then maintain that for the next 5 years.  Not saying Miller cant do it, but if im a betting the farm (a 9 million salary for 5 years mininum) im likely not to make that bet.  

[guntrix]

Just now, -DLC- said:

You can't speak for him in a "will/won't" way. None of us can, or should.

 

His agent said that, sure....he cashes in when Miller does. Miller has his own brain and it's obvious that he's pretty strong minded and capable of deciding and speaking for himself.

Miller's done well in keeping quiet. 

 

So who's word is most valuable after his? Who has a better overview of what he wants out of his next contract?

 

His agent, not you Debbie. 

[bigbadcanucks]

33 minutes ago, BlastPast said:

Hughes and Miller, that's how it's debatable.

 

Bet you're one of the guys whose feelings were hurt by Allvin's comments and doing cartwheels right now because Hughes is zeroing in on Lidster's single season record of 63 points and Kearns' single season record of 55 assists.  In almost any other organization with a winning tradition, these numbers wouldn't even register as a footnote.  

 

Hughes, Miller and Demko are untouchables IMHO.  But to proclaim Hughes and Miller, who are stars and having outstanding respective seasons, as superstars is simply inaccurate, wouldn't you say?  I have no doubts Hughes will become a superstar in due time in the same way as a Brian Leetch was.

 

Superstars in my book are players like Gretzky, Yzerman, Bossy, Lafleur, Orr, Crosby, Ovechkin, Jagr, Potvin, Leetch.  You honestly think Miller and Hughes can be spoken about in the same way as these players at this point in their careers? 

 

But hey, if you want a lower set of standards, knock yourself out.  And while you're at it, give yourself a participation ribbon.

[spook007]

2 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Colorado didn't re-sign Landeskog until he was a UFA.  There is no guarantee that Miller will re-sign in Vancouver in the summer or that he will be traded...

True, but if he doesn't extend in the summer, does Canucks chance him next summer... big gamble...

Of course they've got to the trade deadline to thibk about it, but could be a big gamble