Lawsuit Against Hockey Canada/CHL (2018 World Junior Team)

[mll]

The Globe & Mail article is under a paywall but Westhead has a summary on twitter. 

Also tweeted by Westhead:

• Each of the players who was asked by police to give a statement or interview did so, the lawyers said, adding the plaintiff did as well. Players also gave police videos & text messages recorded or exchanged around the time of the incident, lawyers said.
• The lead detective for London police wrote in an email in February 2019 that he did not have reasonable grounds to believe a sexual assault had taken place, lawyers told The Globe.
• Once the London police investigation was complete, lawyers said their clients were willing to cooperate with a Hockey Canada investigation led by the law firm Henein-Hutchison but were not asked to sit for an interview or provide a statement, the lawyers told The Globe.
• Henein-Hutchison told The Globe that 10 players cooperated with their investigation in 2018, 2 declined to participate and 7 declined pending the completion of the police investigation. h/t to @Colinfreeze and @FriesenJoe for some solid reporting.
• Context on this issue: Univ of Alberta women's and gender studies professor Dr. Lise Gotell is an expert on sexual assault law. She told me recently that only 5% of sexual assault survivors in Canada report their attacks to police. @lisegot
• Dr. Gotell on legal hurdles in cases where intoxication is an issue: "Canada's Supreme Court has never given a clear answer to the question of how drunk is too drunk to consent. The point at which intoxication becomes incapacity has been answered differently by different courts."

[UnkNuk]

A couple of things:  I didn't realize, until I read the article that gurn posted, that almost all the players on the team are now in the NHL.  Which means that some of the players involved in this incident may be playing in the NHL.

 

A theoritical legal question:  if a woman, while intoxicated, agrees to a group sexual encounter and then, the next day, can't remember her agreement or regrets her agreement, what legal blame is there on the male participants?  Does it make it a difference, in this situation, if the males were also intoxicated?

[Gurn]

I find one aspect of the reporting to be a bit strange

Why does anyone need to know what these guys have earned?

 

What relevance does that hold?

[UnkNuk]

2 hours ago, gurn said:

I find one aspect of the reporting to be a bit strange

Why does anyone need to know what these guys have earned?

 

What relevance does that hold?

Perhaps it's to emphasize their current privileged lifestyle after an alleged crime?  And/or what may be at stake for some of these players?

[Gurn]

42 minutes ago, UnkNuk said:

Perhaps it's to emphasize their current privileged lifestyle after an alleged crime?  And/or what may be at stake for some of these players?

So, it's a bit of a smear job.

Cops say no charges

Alleged victim settled with hockey Canada

 The story should be about Hockey Canada- and how the cops didn't believe enough to lay charges, and why not?

Why doesn't the report also state how much the alleged victim earns per year? Or the cops that did the investigation?

 

To me,  it's bad journalism. Would be better as an opinion piece.

 

 

 

 

[King Heffy]

17 minutes ago, gurn said:

So, it's a bit of a smear job.

Cops say no charges

Alleged victim settled with hockey Canada

 The story should be about Hockey Canada- and how the cops didn't believe enough to lay charges, and why not?

Why doesn't the report also state how much the alleged victim earns per year? Or the cops that did the investigation?

 

To me,  it's bad journalism. Would be better as an opinion piece.

 

 

 

 

I'm 100% convinced HC coerced her into not working with the investigation further.

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

I'm 100% convinced HC coerced her into not working with the investigation further.

Sounds like the guilty players have all lawyered up, right?  

[EddieVedder]

How is it that a police investigation turns up nothing?  No dna matching?

[EddieVedder]

On 7/16/2022 at 4:45 PM, King Heffy said:

I'm 100% convinced HC coerced her into not working with the investigation further.

How would they have coerced her?  She has a lawyer and there was a police investigation.  Did they reach out to her behind their backs?  

[mll]

 

[4petesake]

9 minutes ago, EddieVedder said:

How is it that a police investigation turns up nothing?  No dna matching?

What do we know about this investigation? How long after the fact was it done? Days? Months? Was a rape kit done?

 

Not sure why you’d hang your hat on the DNA question without these answers.

[Odd.]

So far, there’s 8 individuals left who have not come out to deny the allegations. And of course, it’s alleged that there 8 of them.

OTT’ Drake Batherson

ANA’ Maxime Comtois 

OTT’ Alex Formenton

ANA’ Sam Steel

Tyler Steenberger

STL’ Robert Thomas

VGK’ Brett Howden

NJD’ Micheal McLeod

Im willing to bet at least more than half of these players were involved, if not all.

Would be quite the Ottawa luck if both those players were involved. There’s no coming back from a gang rape.

[Gurn]

5 minutes ago, Odd. said:

Would be quite the Ottawa luck if both those players were involved. There’s no coming back from a gang rape.

alleged- the complainant settled a civil lawsuit, and the police investigated; then decided not to press any charges.

 

[Odd.]

On 7/16/2022 at 1:09 PM, UnkNuk said:

A couple of things:  I didn't realize, until I read the article that gurn posted, that almost all the players on the team are now in the NHL.  Which means that some of the players involved in this incident may be playing in the NHL.

 

A theoritical legal question:  if a woman, while intoxicated, agrees to a group sexual encounter and then, the next day, can't remember her agreement or regrets her agreement, what legal blame is there on the male participants?  Does it make it a difference, in this situation, if the males were also intoxicated?

That’s where it gets real tricky. Technically, you can consent while being drunk, but there’s levels to it. If you’re incapacitated, then you can’t really consent as you’re too intoxicated to make an informed decision. This is why ever since the MeToo movement, it’s been socially unacceptable to have consensual sex with someone while they’ve consumed large amounts of alcohol. It’s never a good idea, because it can go bad real quick the next day if one person doesn’t recall the full events of what happened. False memories can happen, and our brains can easily try and solve these memories and often times fill in events that never really happened or are quite different from reality. It doesn’t take much alcohol to form a blackout to some people. This is where a lot of guilt, shame, and uncertainty comes from. 
 

Theres also been lots of talk of being able to rescind consent, but there’s a little grey area. Obviously if you rescind consent in the middle of sex, then the sex can no longer be consentual.  However, where a lot of people disagree is after the sex is finished, if you’re able to rescind consent after the deeds been done, and often times people will use the ‘excuse’ that they were pressured to have sex, coerced, or felt they had to do it despite not really wanting to, and therefore treat it like it was non consensual despite giving verbal consent. MeToo believes verbal consent is not enough, and the parties involved must have an enthusiastic response or reaction to consent, in order for it to be actually consensual. 
 

At the end of the day, if you’re prohibited from driving a motor vehicle, being intoxicated in public, or being too intoxicated to be at public places, sex should also be off limits. 

Edited July 19, 2022 by Odd.

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

 

Are we supposed to believe this guy actually wrote this?   His lawyers used words like “alleged” and “incident”.  Sure sounds like, even with the lawyer speak, this guy knows what happened.  

[Gurn]

20 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Are we supposed to believe this guy actually wrote this?   His lawyers used words like “alleged” and “incident”.  Sure sounds like, even with the lawyer speak, this guy knows what happened.  

I used the word 'alleged' earlier- does that mean I know what happened?

The word alleged is used because nothing was proven in court.-  and may not be.

[Alflives]

Just now, gurn said:

I used the word 'alleged' earlier- does that mean I know what happened?

The word alleged is used because nothing was proven in court.-  and may not be.

Guys on 650 saying a news paper back east has text messages from a player involved where that player asks the victim (the morning after) if she went to the police.  Why in the heck is this guy asking if the girl is going to the police if he thinks nothing bad happened?

Sure is looking more and more like this wasn’t just an “incident”.  As Thomas’ lawyer speak statement indicates.  Sounds like this was a sexual assault, and the players involved thought so, especially since they were asking the victim if she went to the police.  

Here’s to hoping the victim isn’t made to look bad by these wealthy players’ Lawyers.

 And it’s not “alleged” if the victim was paid a settlement.  It happened.  It’s terrible.  And those involved in the assault and it’s cover-up should be held to account. 

 

[EddieVedder]

30 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Are we supposed to believe this guy actually wrote this?   His lawyers used words like “alleged” and “incident”.  Sure sounds like, even with the lawyer speak, this guy knows what happened.  

why would someone not lawyer up in this case?  The accuser lawyered up so why cant those who are being accused? 

 

[EddieVedder]

5 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Guys on 650 saying a news paper back east has text messages from a player involved where that player asks the victim (the morning after) if she went to the police.  Why in the heck is this guy asking if the girl is going to the police if he thinks nothing bad happened?

Sure is looking more and more like this wasn’t just an “incident”.  As Thomas’ lawyer speak statement indicates.  Sounds like this was a sexual assault, and the players involved thought so, especially since they were asking the victim if she went to the police.  

Here’s to hoping the victim isn’t made to look bad by these wealthy players’ Lawyers.

 And it’s not “alleged” if the victim was paid a settlement.  It happened.  It’s terrible.  And those involved in the assault and it’s cover-up should be held to account. 

 

if there was a text message, it would have been leaked already.