bigbadcanucks Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 6 hours ago, EddieVedder said: Hes got the skill and talent to be a permanent top 6 player. The type of top 6 player we need. Hes 21 years old. How do you pigeonhole him as a bottom 6 player at 21? Why don't you look at the big picture? When given the opportunity, he didn't do much in a top six role last season and he has to learn the game on the defensive side of the puck. This isn't "pigeon-holing" Hoglander. It's adding to his tool box and positioning him for a full time spot on the NHL roster at this early stage of his career so that his natural skill sets can be exploited/developed even further as his defensive game catches up. Hoglander was rushed, so this would allow him to reset in a bottom six role in the NHL rather than the AHL. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 1 hour ago, Locke Lamora said: Seriously? Boudreau went with the old-school “I’m going to make this kid my whipping boy” act - complete with critiquing him openly and often to the media. I think a little more nuanced approach would have likely yielded better results. By all accounts Hogz is a bit of a quieter personality, from Sweden too, and Bruce thought that the “hammer” approach was best. Ol’ Brucie had folks, media included, eating out of his palm but he’s nowhere near a perfect coach. Just look at what JR/Allvin thought of his ability to teach the defense corps how to break out of our zone. Hogz doesn’t avoid all responsibility for his regressed play of course, but it’s my opinion that Brucie bungled things too. So you're saying when a player doesn't produce, puts in an inconsistant effort, and isn't very good defensively, that the coach should ignore it and pat him on the head. It's the NHL and you get what you earn. Bouda didn't seem to have a problem with the other Swedes on the team. So I don't see that as an issue. Do you know when and why a coach goes with public criticism. When it gets to benching or making a player a healthy scratch because of his play. When it gets to that point the player hasn't responded and you need to light a fire somehow. The same happened with Kassian and Virtanen over inconsistant effort and poor defensive effort. Both are gone because even public criticism failed to light a fire under them. It's up to the player to respond with improved play if they want to stay in the lineup. It has nothing to do with "whipping boy" and everything to do with motivating the player to improve. You don't get extra ice time by playing poorly and an inconsistant effort. If you think that's unfair.... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48MPHSlapShot Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 2 hours ago, Alflives said: Hogs should be used as sugar to dumperoo one of the many Benning parting gifts. No he shouldn't. Hogz is a potential impact player on an entry level deal. Good teams have players on entry level deals contributing to the lineup. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 1 minute ago, 48MPHSlapShot said: No he shouldn't. Hogz is a potential impact player on an entry level deal. Good teams have players on entry level deals contributing to the lineup. Hogs has one more year as an elc. Good teams don’t have the Binning parting gifts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
da_hool Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 From what I saw last year is that Hoglander has great puck skills and great work ethic but I don't think he has very high IQ. He was often out of position, putting himself or teammates in to bad situations, and has a sub par shot that frustrated me to no end when it was shot into the goalies crest. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48MPHSlapShot Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 1 minute ago, Alflives said: Hogs has one more year as an elc. Good teams don’t have the Binning parting gifts. At which point he's still team controlled and would still likely be cheap, unless of course he has an excellent season, in which case it would still be stupid to move him just to dump a contract. If you're looking to package a prospect to move a bad contract, I would suggest Rathbone over Hoglander, as, barring an OEL trade, our top 4 left side is set for the foreseeable future. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locke Lamora Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 4 hours ago, Baggins said: So you're saying when a player doesn't produce, puts in an inconsistant effort, and isn't very good defensively, that the coach should ignore it and pat him on the head. It's the NHL and you get what you earn. Bouda didn't seem to have a problem with the other Swedes on the team. So I don't see that as an issue. Do you know when and why a coach goes with public criticism. When it gets to benching or making a player a healthy scratch because of his play. When it gets to that point the player hasn't responded and you need to light a fire somehow. The same happened with Kassian and Virtanen over inconsistant effort and poor defensive effort. Both are gone because even public criticism failed to light a fire under them. It's up to the player to respond with improved play if they want to stay in the lineup. It has nothing to do with "whipping boy" and everything to do with motivating the player to improve. You don't get extra ice time by playing poorly and an inconsistant effort. If you think that's unfair.... Nice wall of text. Bruce could have handled Hogz better in my opinion. That’s it really. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nave Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 I haven't given up on Hoglander, but it's hard to see how he fits in our top 9 without someone being traded. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinatcc Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 15 hours ago, Locke Lamora said: Nice wall of text. Bruce could have handled Hogz better in my opinion. That’s it really. It's quite sad you think that is a "wall" of text. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred65 Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 I tend to think Hoglander will look better this year 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby James Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 19 hours ago, 48MPHSlapShot said: If you're looking to package a prospect to move a bad contract, I would suggest Rathbone over Hoglander, as, barring an OEL trade, our top 4 left side is set for the foreseeable future. I don't totally disagree here, but honestly we really only have Rathbone, Hoglander and Podz as our 3 top prospects then it isn't much (maybe some kids from this year's draft will make it one day). I think we need these young players they are cheap now and will likely be cheap on their next contract too. Hoglander had 1 good season and 1 bad one. I would definitely vote to give him more time and get him working with the coaches and the Sedins this year. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Crossbar Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 That's it!!! Can't take it any longer. Giving up on Hoglander! I'm outta here! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold Drunken Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 (edited) I don't personally see many giving up on him per se - but 100% he's got loads of talent and works his a$$ off. I think what should have happened was Hogz spending a couple years in Utica/Abbotsford and developing properly rather than rushing him into the lineup. Most young players benefit from a year or two in the minors, eat some minutes, put up some points and gain confidence while they get stronger. I feel Hogz was rushed a bit, but most definitely not giving up on him. The biggest thing with him is he's got to learn how to finish, the amount of chances this kid get's he should be a 20 goal scorer no problem, but struggles to finish and hit the net consistently. That being said he still has to earn that roster spot, you don't get one because of potential, he has to show he can contribute offensively and take his game to that next level. I think he will., I said before I would not be against him starting the year in Abbotsford either- most don't mention that as an option but the farm team is there for a reason. Edited July 18, 2022 by Harold Drunken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold Drunken Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Bobby James said: I don't totally disagree here, but honestly we really only have Rathbone, Hoglander and Podz as our 3 top prospects then it isn't much (maybe some kids from this year's draft will make it one day). I think we need these young players they are cheap now and will likely be cheap on their next contract too. Hoglander had 1 good season and 1 bad one. I would definitely vote to give him more time and get him working with the coaches and the Sedins this year. I feel like People forget Rathbone is by far our best defensive prospect and he was a PPG player in Abbotsford last year. We have way more forwards in our top 10 prospect pool than defenseman. For a team that needs defensive talent badly, I don't see how it makes sense to write off Rathbone as expendable. Who's next after him? Jurmo maybe, Woo? Our D talent is thin, why would we make it thinner? Edited July 18, 2022 by Harold Drunken 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Fred65 said: I tend to think Hoglander will look better this year Agreed. Hoglander will look better this year as sugar in a dumperoo of Poolman. Edited July 18, 2022 by Alflives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold Drunken Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 23 hours ago, da_hool said: From what I saw last year is that Hoglander has great puck skills and great work ethic but I don't think he has very high IQ. He was often out of position, putting himself or teammates in to bad situations, and has a sub par shot that frustrated me to no end when it was shot into the goalies crest. 100%, it's his finish that frustrates me. Goalie in the crest or 2 feet wide, he should have had 20 goals last year based on grade A chances alone. If he finds that killer instinct he could be a very dangerous player. 21 years old, lots of room to grow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyman109 Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 I dont think anyone has given up on Hoglander, however reality is that he is a young player that has a lot more competition for a top 9 spot this year. The additions of Kuzmenko and Mikheyev as well as Klimovich coming up possibly may demote him to Abbotsford. I dont see that as anyone giving up on him., Its a good thing if a player of his skill set cant make the team.It means we are doing well on improving the roster. Hoglander will be in a better spot if the Canucks trade Garland. Garland is the same type of player with more of an edge, less fear of the corners and better finish that Hogz.Yes Hoglander is younger and has time to improve. He may have to season in Abby. He may be used a an asset in a trade. That doesnt mean anyone has given up on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 On 7/17/2022 at 3:52 PM, Baggins said: So you're saying when a player doesn't produce, puts in an inconsistant effort, and isn't very good defensively, that the coach should ignore it and pat him on the head. It's the NHL and you get what you earn. Bouda didn't seem to have a problem with the other Swedes on the team. So I don't see that as an issue. Do you know when and why a coach goes with public criticism. When it gets to benching or making a player a healthy scratch because of his play. When it gets to that point the player hasn't responded and you need to light a fire somehow. The same happened with Kassian and Virtanen over inconsistant effort and poor defensive effort. Both are gone because even public criticism failed to light a fire under them. It's up to the player to respond with improved play if they want to stay in the lineup. It has nothing to do with "whipping boy" and everything to do with motivating the player to improve. You don't get extra ice time by playing poorly and an inconsistant effort. If you think that's unfair.... Great post Baggins. This isn't the public sector where once you get a job you can relax and not work hard because, well it's not really expected of you. As far as the kleenex goes, Hoglander .. if he makes it great! If he doesn't then SHL/KHL... his career earnings will still be worth the effort. And his grandkids will be proud to say he was drafted in the NHL and played a couple hundred games or so. And enjoy the fruits of his labour as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, mikeyman109 said: I dont think anyone has given up on Hoglander, however reality is that he is a young player that has a lot more competition for a top 9 spot this year. The additions of Kuzmenko and Mikheyev as well as Klimovich coming up possibly may demote him to Abbotsford. I dont see that as anyone giving up on him., Its a good thing if a player of his skill set cant make the team.It means we are doing well on improving the roster. Hoglander will be in a better spot if the Canucks trade Garland. Garland is the same type of player with more of an edge, less fear of the corners and better finish that Hogz.Yes Hoglander is younger and has time to improve. He may have to season in Abby. He may be used a an asset in a trade. That doesnt mean anyone has given up on him. We don't trade Garland just to give Hoglander a chance to .. well become a Garland. Not saying that is what your saying either... Hoglander has a chance still either with us or someone else. It's 100% on him to make it work. Edited July 19, 2022 by IBatch 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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