Where does JTM rank?

[JesseBlue]

same aav as boeser. 6 to 8 years

[Canucklehead73]

Hard to use career numbers as players do not always have the same opportunity, icetime and linemates... JT has been put in a top line role and has flourished. 

 

And the way it works is you do not tell you best performer and leader, great job your killing it! Doing everything we want in a top line player... PPG players make 8-9 million per Buuuut I think I want to pay you an average salary just in case. Ok?

[fanfor42]

IMO JT needs to be re-signed.  Trading him at the trade deadline will result in a pick and prospect. (By definition because at the TDL the only trade partners will be contending teams who will not want to give up roster players at that time). Those are futures. I don't think that fits where the team is at.

 

Trading him before the trade deadline requires a willing partner and so far - nada.

 

I think the package is 50M and the length is either 6 x 8.35 or it is 7 by 7.3.  For me that is the best decision and a fair price for JT. I hope they get a deal done along those lines as I believe we are a better team for the next 5 - 6 years if we re-sign him.  That is a pretty good window.

 

We will trade forwards for RD over the next couple of years as our prospects and picks develop and we an afford to move them because we will have a surplus of good young forwards.  That is coming.  Not quite yet but coming. Patience.

 

 

 

 

[PunjabiCanucks]

Issue is where does his last 3 years leave him vs his whole career

[Got the Babych]

1 hour ago, 204CanucksFan said:

I think he will. Over the last 3 seasons, the most recent ones where Miller was given a top 6 opportunity after being buried in TB's depth, MZ has 20 more goals but JT has 20 more points. And as far as being a "pure" center, last season JT won almost as many faceoffs as MZ despite taking over 100 less faceoffs

Yeah, could happen, never know what happens in free agency if there are multiple interested teams. I do think it would be a mistake for us to sign him to 8x8.5 though.

[iceman64]

Llllllaq

19 hours ago, wildcam said:

He will drop to 68--72 points next season playing 75 games..

Anywhere near a ppg gets big $..

 

[wildcam]

2 hours ago, iceman64 said:

Llllllaq

Anywhere near a ppg gets big $..

 

We will see soon enough with Miller...I predict Canucks won't offer Miller more then 6 yrs X 7.6 million.. contract will start 2023 Miller will be 30 yrs old then... 15 team NTC..

[iceman64]

7 minutes ago, wildcam said:

We will see soon enough with Miller...I predict Canucks won't offer Miller more then 6 yrs X 7.6 million.. contract will start 2023 Miller will be 30 yrs old then... 15 team NTC..

I'd stick to 5 years and revisit it at the end which is only 33-34 still and no one of his calibre drops off the map that bad at that age, but in the meantime picture the price of elites still going up and by the end of his contract we could simply move him and replace him with someone from our farm depth if we continue to pick and develop and not give our picks away anymore and since we don't have to for roster players, like Detroit of old, having a good stock of prospects waiting in the wings to break out is a much better scenario but we have more problems than that coming. 

Kuz could be $$$$ if he plays like anywhere near in Europe he will need a huge raise and Bo too.. 

Then the season after it's Podz.. 

 I don't know where the NHL is on players owing escrow but I hope it's close to being paid so we can have a cap increase that we sorely need right now that's even worse almost than when covid started, we needed it badly and no increase at all.. 

That was bad! 

Crosses fingers as I head to google search the escrow owing. 

 It's always something or other... Sigh... 

[iceman64]

22 hours ago, spook007 said:

I'll tell you this though...

come play offs he raises his game. That's gold. Same as Kessler used to. 
He may not fight, but he lifts the team. More than anyone else, when the chips are down. 
And yes, he always gets, what's left over from the main table, and still produces. Offering JT 9M and Hovat 6 would be an insult. 

Ummm usually I'd agree fully on Bo but I'm a lil miffed at him at the moment, after hearing him say and I quote. This from watching Demko making a great save and the Bo saying "that stoked me" 

Are you fn kidding me? Your making 5 mil a season to be stoked every time you step on the ice and your supposed to model that ffs!

 Miller has Bo beat in spades for leadership, you'd never have to say that with JT, the guy is mostly perma-stoked. 

 And when your coaching a team with 2-3 primary guys you try and spread the wealth through the line-up instead of just one so not having Bo Brock and Petey loaded on first line and if that got shut down then what?! Those nights we'd have a better chance to lose than will especially leaning on that all season long. 

That USED to be a problem, a huge one but not anymore, well as much anyway. That's being worked on but imo Bo if like you said doesn't fall off the map is worth 7 ish.. imo anyway..

 

 Like I put in the most un-popular GM decision you'd make thread, I'd trade Horvat and make JT Capt and sign him for 8-9 ish for 5-6 years if he made the decision to stay before trading Bo that is. 

Edited July 26, 2022 by iceman64

[Viper007]

1 hour ago, iceman64 said:

Ummm usually I'd agree fully on Bo but I'm a lil miffed at him at the moment, after hearing him say and I quote. This from watching Demko making a great save and the Bo saying "that stoked me" 

Are you fn kidding me? Your making 5 mil a season to be stoked every time you step on the ice and your supposed to model that ffs!

 Miller has Bo beat in spades for leadership, you'd never have to say that with JT, the guy is mostly perma-stoked. 

 And when your coaching a team with primarily 2-3 primary guys you try and spread the wealth through the line-up instead of just one so not having Bo Brock and Petey loaded on first line and if that got shut down then what?! Those nights we'd have a better chance to lose than will especially leaning on that all season long. 

That USED to be a problem, a huge one but not anymore, well as much anyway. That's being worked on but imo Bo if like you said doesn't fall off the map is worth 7 ish.. imo anyway..

 

 Like I put in the most un-popular GM decision you'd make thread, I'd trade Horvat and make JT Capt and sign him for 8-9 ish for 5-6 years if he made the decision to stay before trading Bo that is. 

Everybody on the team gets jacked up a little when the goalie makes a great save.  Wouldn't you?  Whenever Demko makes a great save, I'm stoked.

[spook007]

1 hour ago, iceman64 said:

Ummm usually I'd agree fully on Bo but I'm a lil miffed at him at the moment, after hearing him say and I quote. This from watching Demko making a great save and the Bo saying "that stoked me" 

Are you fn kidding me? Your making 5 mil a season to be stoked every time you step on the ice and your supposed to model that ffs!

 Miller has Bo beat in spades for leadership, you'd never have to say that with JT, the guy is mostly perma-stoked. 

 And when your coaching a team with primarily 2-3 primary guys you try and spread the wealth through the line-up instead of just one so not having Bo Brock and Petey loaded on first line and if that got shut down then what?! Those nights we'd have a better chance to lose than will especially leaning on that all season long. 

That USED to be a problem, a huge one but not anymore, well as much anyway. That's being worked on but imo Bo if like you said doesn't fall off the map is worth 7 ish.. imo anyway..

 

 Like I put in the most un-popular GM decision you'd make thread, I'd trade Horvat and make JT Capt and sign him for 8-9 ish for 5-6 years if he made the decision to stay before trading Bo that is. 

Cheers Iceman.

 

Maybe putting too much into Bo saying 'that stoked me', although I get your point. He shouldn't have to have others waken him up... he should waken them up...

I do think in general, he is a model leader, of his kind... I would love to see him drop the gloves more, but its not his style, and I don't want him to be a punchbag, just to please the fans, however if injustice is done, I would like to see him show a heartbeat.

 

During to bubble run, he was the one, who made things happen, when it was needed... 

 

Miller is also a great leader, but he is a different leader... Wears his heart on his sleeve and lead in all facets by example. Had a fantastic season and was a joy to watch, but that hardly makes Bo redundant. 

 

We are in a better position now than we've been in a long time, being able to roll 2 strong lines. I'm happy to see that Bo will be getting good wingers now. He deserves that... The  issue has been discussed before, that he doesn't utilise his wingers enough, although given some of his wingers, you could hardly blame him. He is not as good defensively as Kessler was, but often ended up as a shutdown C by default. Sedins were a given and Petey wasn't built for it neither.

 

It can be debated, if Bo had been having Petey on his wing and Boeser on the other would have had better stats than he had this season, and if JT, having Pearson and whoever on his wing, would fare much better than Bo on the second line.... Millers ability to play wing stops that debate, as it leaves Petey to play centre...

 

I get your point on 'the unpopular GM decision', and who knows, maybe something like that will happen... at the moment, everything is in play. 

 

My main point started with miller getting 9-9.5M or similar and BO getting 5.5-6M... that would be an insult to Bo... He would easily get a better contract than that elsewhere.

Edited July 26, 2022 by spook007

[iceman64]

1 hour ago, Viper007 said:

Everybody on the team gets jacked up a little when the goalie makes a great save.  Wouldn't you?  Whenever Demko makes a great save, I'm stoked.

No if I'm making 5 mil a season id be stoked from the nano-second the ink dried. I used to play and I counted the hours to practice and play each week and I didn't see a penny but I was super stoked to gear up and lace the blades, grab a stick, and have a blast. 

 

Edited July 26, 2022 by iceman64

[IBatch]

3 hours ago, iceman64 said:

No if I'm making 5 mil a season id be stoked from the nano-second the ink dried. I used to play and I counted the hours to practice and play each week and I didn't see a penny but I was super stoked to gear up and lace the blades, grab a stick, and have a blast. 

 

Like Spook above, i pretty much feel the same way about Bo.   And also think your reading a bit too much into "that stoked me" comment ... it was just that, a response to a question.   His even keeled stuff probably does have some influence from the Sedins, but also it's just who he is.   That sort of leadership is important too, especially in the playoffs.   Won't see him trashing the Olympic rooms like MT's and Brady's Dad and a few of his teammates did in Nagono.   It was a crushing defeat for Canada too, and didn't even try in after losing a shot at the gold medal, but Gretzky made his team stay, appreciate the experience, and participate in the village after.   I could see Bo doing that too.   The right thing isn't always passion, and just because it's not shown, doesn't mean it's not there either.   And at least watching him post game isn't Naslund deadpan level. 

 

 He's got a big motor...and sometimes you'd like to see him use it more.   Sure did light it up down the stretch though didn't he?   Not sure but think might have scored more goals then EP did who was also on fire.   Never ever hear the guy complain, despite being saddled with Pearson and LE for years, and look how that turned Pearson's career around.   Actually feel he's got untapped offense.     And don't mind his leadership at all.   Or this groups for that matter.   It's pretty rich that way, with Miller and OEL, Myers etc.  Like you, i'd love a Smyl Captain.   Or a Linden.   That said Horvat is still carving out his legacy, and did something special in the bubble.   10 goals ... was actually on pace to challenge Bure.   One more series and for sure would have passed Linden too (12 in 94)....

 

Nothing wrong with Bo, agree it would be nice to see him he less passive.   It's not like Miller is dropping the gloves either...but man, sure glad the club released footage of him pumping up the lads in the bubble.   We are lucky we have both of them.    And hope we can shoehorn them both in.    Could see a nice tidy run of playoffs in our future if they can manage that.    

 

Edit:  If Miller and Bo and EP are all in the team next season, it could be the best group of centers this teams ever iced.   Linden, Ronning, Nedved for one season of course is the best so far ... but Linden mostly played on the wing in 93.   Pretty sure Bruce will try loading up one line, as well as trying rolling 3 lines.   Sure nice to have those sort of options. 

Edited July 26, 2022 by IBatch

[IBatch]

As for the OP.   Believe Zibenajad is for sure his best comp.   And will get a deal like him,  but with a little added for the cap going up in two seasons.   And that the deal will go the same length, which is six years (as in age it's done).    8-9.5 is his range.  One more season like last years, he's going to get the higher range, if he regresses to a PPG, the low range.    He will walk if he's not the highest paid player after scoring more then anyone since he showed up. 

 

Edit:  Not sure if it's postering,  or he's actually saying the truth,  JR has a number in mind that works for the club, and Millers camp of course is higher.    Do think that if we start the season with Miller, it's going to be awfully hard to trade him at the deadline if we are in a good position, which is very likely.     If we aren't, easy he's gone.   JB for sure made it tough on these guys!  But not really in a bad way either.    Glad we have a new management crew.   And that they are taking their time as well.   Hate it when a new GM comes in, and does silly things off the hop like offer Sundin a ridiculous two year, 20 million dollar contract.  Wonder what Nonis would have done with all that cap gone.   He had to wait, and did, Burke's deals ... then was canned for not going after the late great Brad Richards.    Didn't take him long to get another job either.    

Edited July 26, 2022 by IBatch

[iceman64]

7 hours ago, IBatch said:

Like Spook above, i pretty much feel the same way about Bo.   And also think your reading a bit too much into "that stoked me" comment ... it was just that, a response to a question.   His even keeled stuff probably does have some influence from the Sedins, but also it's just who he is.   That sort of leadership is important too, especially in the playoffs.   Won't see him trashing the Olympic rooms like MT's and Brady's Dad and a few of his teammates did in Nagono.   It was a crushing defeat for Canada too, and didn't even try in after losing a shot at the gold medal, but Gretzky made his team stay, appreciate the experience, and participate in the village after.   I could see Bo doing that too.   The right thing isn't always passion, and just because it's not shown, doesn't mean it's not there either.   And at least watching him post game isn't Naslund deadpan level. 

 

 He's got a big motor...and sometimes you'd like to see him use it more.   Sure did light it up down the stretch though didn't he?   Not sure but think might have scored more goals then EP did who was also on fire.   Never ever hear the guy complain, despite being saddled with Pearson and LE for years, and look how that turned Pearson's career around.   Actually feel he's got untapped offense.     And don't mind his leadership at all.   Or this groups for that matter.   It's pretty rich that way, with Miller and OEL, Myers etc.  Like you, i'd love a Smyl Captain.   Or a Linden.   That said Horvat is still carving out his legacy, and did something special in the bubble.   10 goals ... was actually on pace to challenge Bure.   One more series and for sure would have passed Linden too (12 in 94)....

 

Nothing wrong with Bo, agree it would be nice to see him he less passive.   It's not like Miller is dropping the gloves either...but man, sure glad the club released footage of him pumping up the lads in the bubble.   We are lucky we have both of them.    And hope we can shoehorn them both in.    Could see a nice tidy run of playoffs in our future if they can manage that.    

 

Edit:  If Miller and Bo and EP are all in the team next season, it could be the best group of centers this teams ever iced.   Linden, Ronning, Nedved for one season of course is the best so far ... but Linden mostly played on the wing in 93.   Pretty sure Bruce will try loading up one line, as well as trying rolling 3 lines.   Sure nice to have those sort of options. 

Well figuratively speaking, we used to have a bit of bling in our jeans in the form of bills in our wallet, now maybe we have a few bills left and some change. 

Something has to give because a raise for Bo and another one possibly for Kuz if he plays well. 

 At this point, looking at where we'll be next season, and actually Podz will be due for a raise soon as well so our bling is going to get really tight and a cap raise might not happen next season at all and leave us hanging in the wind with no choice but cap dump for prospects/picks. 

 No this isn't the end of the world for us BUT losing a good player or 2 which we certainly afford will slow things down but not stop.

 Fack, does anything ever get easier here? Yes I know we're not the only team in this position but for F sakes, the timing could not get worse. Again, with us it's always something.

Swear this team is cursed... 

 

 

[IBatch]

33 minutes ago, iceman64 said:

Well figuratively speaking, we used to have a bit of bling in our jeans in the form of bills in our wallet, now maybe we have a few bills left and some change. 

Something has to give because a raise for Bo and another one possibly for Kuz if he plays well. 

 At this point, looking at where we'll be next season, and actually Podz will be due for a raise soon as well so our bling is going to get really tight and a cap raise might not happen next season at all and leave us hanging in the wind with no choice but cap dump for prospects/picks. 

 No this isn't the end of the world for us BUT losing a good player or 2 which we certainly afford will slow things down but not stop.

 Fack, does anything ever get easier here? Yes I know we're not the only team in this position but for F sakes, the timing could not get worse. Again, with us it's always something.

Swear this team is cursed... 

 

 

Well this is how i look at it.   The team

took a risk signing the Kuzmo.   And it's low risk, high reward.  And unlike some, i'm not at all worried about him.   Isn't he a UFA after anyways?   Pretty sure he is.    So if he's Panarin 2.0 we can enjoy his services and probably a cup while we are at it.   If he isn't bye bye thanks for knowing you, no big deal either way.  

 

Somewhere in the middle well i suppose then it gets tougher but at least we have assets we can trade.   For now.   I do share a bit of have a feeling that this team is cursed, watching it forever it seems.   But still have hope.   Also not sure why anyone would automatically slot him in the top six either (Kuzmo, anyone remember Linden Vey?  Where is is on his teams

depth charts lol)....

 

He's going to have to earn that and it won't be easy.    Same with Podz.   Feel he was brought in for Podz more then anything, there is a guy the club does have a lot of control over for awhile anyways.  We aren't "damned" if players play well above their cap, we are blessed.   And it's the only thing that's going to get us a cup.  So let's hope he's awesome. 

 

Have been beating this drum for years now, unless we get really really lucky (and luck and time are factors, we didn't win when we shouldn't have in 82 and 94, and we didn't win when we should have in 2011)... Maybe next time?  Well MTL waited since 93... maybe next time but i have zero illusions that this team

won't have to be awfully lucky to get to the final either.   Not with COL blocking us.  Even without them.   But there is always hope and luck. 

 

 

Until  tax stuff gets dealt with, it's going to awfully hard, for any Canadian team to win a cup in the cap era, which is here to stay.   It allowed expansion to occur, even though the product has been watered down heavily .,, fans keep coming to pay the prices of admission ... the 2000's were absolutely awful. 

 

  And right now it's extra tough for Van and OTT.   OTT or TO?  TO is almost always going to get the Ontario boys, MTL is going to get the Quebec ones.... WNP well they won't ever win a cup without a gigantic amount of luck.   Canucks and the Alberta teams id say on par.   Maybe CAL/VAN/EDM really in that order of advantage ... less tax only goes so far.  But is a key metric. 

 

Have to understand the correct target.  Sure we are "cursed" but now it's institutional.   So just enjoy the ride.    Every single year more US players are drafted and less Canadian ones....and why would they want to play in a foreign country, where taxes are high etc etc.   Expansion and the cap made it very tough on us and our brothers across the country.   It is what it is.  

At least the talent level is finally getting close to what it was during the 80's and 90's.

 

Edited July 26, 2022 by IBatch

[iceman64]

53 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Well this is how i look at it.   The team

took a risk signing the Kuzmo.   And it's low risk, high reward.  And unlike some, i'm not at all worried about him.   Isn't he a UFA after anyways?   Pretty sure he is.    So if he's Panarin 2.0 we can enjoy his services and probably a cup while we are at it.   If he isn't bye bye thanks for knowing you, no big deal either way.  

 

Somewhere in the middle well i suppose then it gets tougher but at least we have assets we can trade.   For now.   I do share a bit of have a feeling that this team is cursed, watching it forever it seems.   But still have hope.   Also not sure why anyone would automatically slot him in the top six either (Kuzmo, anyone remember Linden Vey?  Where is is on his teams

depth charts lol)....

 

He's going to have to earn that and it won't be easy.    Same with Podz.   Feel he was brought in for Podz more then anything, there is a guy the club does have a lot of control over for awhile anyways.  We aren't "damned" if players play well above their cap, we are blessed.   And it's the only thing that's going to get us a cup.  So let's hope he's awesome. 

 

Have been beating this drum for years now, unless we get really really lucky (and luck and time are factors, we didn't win when we shouldn't have in 82 and 94, and we didn't win when we should have in 2011)... Maybe next time?  Well MTL waited since 93... maybe next time but i have zero illusions that this team

won't have to be awfully lucky to get to the final either.   Not with COL blocking us.  Even without them.   But there is always hope and luck. 

 

 

Until  tax stuff gets dealt with, it's going to awfully hard, for any Canadian team to win a cup in the cap era, which is here to stay.   It allowed expansion to occur, even though the product has been watered down heavily .,, fans keep coming to pay the prices of admission ... the 2000's were absolutely awful. 

 

  And right now it's extra tough for Van and OTT.   OTT or TO?  TO is almost always going to get the Ontario boys, MTL is going to get the Quebec ones.... WNP well they won't ever win a cup without a gigantic amount of luck.   Canucks and the Alberta teams id say on par.   Maybe CAL/VAN/EDM really in that order of advantage ... less tax only goes so far.  But is a key metric. 

 

Have to understand the correct target.  Sure we are "cursed" but now it's institutional.   So just enjoy the ride.    Every single year more US players are drafted and less Canadian ones....and why would they want to play in a foreign country, where taxes are high etc etc.   Expansion and the cap made it very tough on us and our brothers across the country.   It is what it is.  

At least the talent level is finally getting close to what it was during the 80's and 90's.

 

I agree with pretty much all that but our difference of opinion slightly varies on Kuz, you put Vey in there but I think Kuz is at a whole other level than Vey by miles. 

 In on a break away and dangles then pulls a Sedinary through the legs trick and too shelf's it post and in.

Saw that in a video of all his goals and he has way more than just speed like Vey. Kuz is the full meal deal, I fully expect 20 goals or even more depending on what players are with him on whatever line he plays on. 

Normally I'm not that high on anyone not named JTM but after watching what I saw. 

I have zero worries about him fitting in as he matched Pete's numbers in Europe, albeit being older but that's quite the feat for anyone. 

I'm actually pretty excited about where we are now (for a change) but I'm more excited that we're able to keep our picks and develop and not trade them away like so many times in the last 40 odd years. 

Cautiously optimistic I guess is the flavour of the day.

 

[Viper007]

18 hours ago, iceman64 said:

No if I'm making 5 mil a season id be stoked from the nano-second the ink dried. I used to play and I counted the hours to practice and play each week and I didn't see a penny but I was super stoked to gear up and lace the blades, grab a stick, and have a blast. 

 

There are always moments in games that make you that much more amped up.

[BarnBurner]

1 minute ago, Viper007 said:

There are always moments in games that make you that much more amped up.

I agree there are certain times in a game that really gets you going, but when you have the opportunity to play a game you grew up loving and got you into the best league in the world, while making millions, you should be ready 99% of the time. 

[Viper007]

2 minutes ago, BarnBurner said:

I agree there are certain times in a game that really gets you going, but when you have the opportunity to play a game you grew up loving and got you into the best league in the world, while making millions, you should be ready 99% of the time. 

Yup I agree, but then again, if you do it day in and day out for pretty much your entire life, you will get tired of it and just go through the motions at times.  Not everyday is the same.  You always need some pick me ups.  Always try to find an edge to pump you up.  That's what I would do.