2023 NHL Entry Draft

[Gawdzukes]

3 hours ago, spook007 said:

 Cheers amigo. Likewise. 
 

I think there is more than one way to skin a cat, and yes your idea may better than mine. 

 

I just personally think the boat sailed a few years ago, with the rebuild. From my chair (in the sunshine in the garden), there were two opportunities to start the rebuild after 2012-13 and again 2-3 years ago. Even last year, when everything was falling apart would have been a good time to let it fall to the bottom, if at all possible. 
problem was and still is the boys wants to win, and every time, we get a good player in (this time Hronek) we get further from the rebuild...

I'm not sure if Petey, QH and Demmer will look favourable on a tear down, they might but who knows... 

 

As for Ferguson, you're absolutely right, that he would not take any garbage or threats from anyone of his players... He shipped out lots of big stars, who got too big for their shoes, at least in Fergusons own mind, but he also stood up for them, when the whole world was at their throats. 
But even he had to change his ways in the latter years. 
 

I think even football have changed a lot, as in the earlier years, the clubs were in total control of the contracts, and could do as they pleased. 
 

Now a day it feels like players have all the control, and has to be handled with silk gloves like a bunch of babies, or the agents will demand a trade. 
At utd the players are paid so much, that they don't want to leave ( same at other big clubs, I'm sure), and it turns the dressing rooms into a country club, not much unlike some of the NHl clubs where the older players on rich long term contracts seems to put down tools partially. 
 

Anyway... love the debates amigo. Whether we agree on everything or partially agrees makes no difference... its all about points of view, and enlarge your horizon (at least it is for me 

 

 

Cheers mate. 

 

I still chuckle at Ronaldo and how Ferguson just said don't let the door hit you on the way out.  Yes soccer has become full of country club babies who whine and demand out as soon as someone else signs a bigger contract and takes the spotlight. I find it pathetic. I'm a scouser (I know I know lol) and I can't even get behind a group of players because we're just a feeder club for Real, Barca, Inter, Juve, and Man City. As soon as I like a player he's gone.

 

One thing with this debate I will raise is what if we don't win a Cup or go super far in the next two years? I guess by your stance then they are going to want out then anyway. However, what if at that time Miller is also slowing down (probably won't be that soon but suppose), then we'll be sitting there with Petey and Hughes on the team going damn we have an 8 million dollar albatross contract. Wouldn't it have been better to trade him for some firsts and a younger center and they might be contributing to a winner in 3 years and lamenting the same thing you are now? We should have bit the bullet and done it the right way imo.

 

Having said that I agree, the writing is on the wall and we're going for it now. My concern is taking shortcuts yet again will leave us with the exact same gripes in two years time but I agree with you logic on this one as well. Great chats amigo, I very much enjoy analyzing the game with you and the others here!

[Nucker 67]

4 minutes ago, JamesB said:

Do the Canucks snap him up and say "thanks very much" or do they go for Danielson or WIllander or Barlow or Wood instead,

As high a ceiling as Benson could have, there could be a lot of risk taking him too. The size thing and projecting as a winger, but also, is he tough enough to withstand the physical NHL? Does he have a history of injuries? I would be excited to have him on the team, but I'd be nervous about him too. I think I would feel more confident in the team moving forward if they nabbed a really good C (Dvorsky, Danielson, Moore)

 

 

[JamesB]

3 hours ago, R3aL said:

But if you view danielson as a shutdown second line C that can also be a near PPG player that can play any role on your team and is a good faceoff guy, and kid with leadership qualities and could be nhl ready faster than most and has the floor of a bottom 6 nhler since he has all the physical tools, IQ and skating already to be a bottom 6 nhler then maybe he’s the guy.

 

see Danielson has Moore best in every facet of the game imo except for explosive straight line speed moore has Danielson but not by huge margin. Danielson is an exceptional

skater and has Moore beat in:

 

- IQ

- being THE GUY

- shot

- play making both off the rush or in the offensive zone 

- defensive reads 

- lock down shut down / shadowing / matchup defending 

- timeline to NHL

- being a surefire C, Moore is not 

- offensive potential 

- size

- right handed (more rare asset to team and a projectabke org need)

- faceoffs

- captain leadership qualities 

 

@JamesB enjoyed your write up don’t agree on Willander or just having Moore ahead of Danielson could you share how you rank Moore over him? You aren’t alone in this I’m just curious how you compare them. 

Good comments. I don't pretend to have any inside knowledge. But the "book" on Moore is very impressive.

 

1. Regarded as the probably the best skater in the draft -- top speed, acceleration, and mobility all top the charts. Its weird but some scouts have his "weakness" as being "too fast" because he gets ahead of his line-mates.

2. Hard worker, excellent motor, very good shot, very good playmaker

3. Put up very good numbers this season despite being pushed down to the second line (as Smith was 1C on the USDP team).

4. Most draft boards have him ahead of Danielson..

 

The trade-off is that Danielson is bigger, stronger, and better defensively but not quite as good in the offensive zone. And, while Danielson is a very good skater it is always nice to have the fastest guy on the ice if you can.

 

But I do like Danielson and would have no problem with taking him even if Moore is still on the board.  In fact, on reflection, I lean in that direction.

[Smashian Kassian]

27 minutes ago, HighOnHockey said:

 

 

It's plays like this that concern me about Sandin-Pellikka. As near-perfect as he was this tournament, this is such a crucial goal in the gold medal game, and that's 5'7, 160 lb Will Vote muscling him off the puck.

 

I noticed this play too, it looks like a lack of awareness more than out muscling perse, but still speaks to an issue.

 

Another thing I noticed with ASP was he can sometimes be too aggressive defending on the rush, he likes to take the body / jump on the puck carrier in those situations & a few times it can take him out of the play a bit & lead to a chance. Willander is better at picking his spots.

 

Overall I felt good about ASP's defense. He has a good stick, he can take the puck away & find the option quickly, reads the play well enough, not afraid to battle along the walls or infront of the net, but he does have these gaffees.

 

I think his defensive game is good enough to be a top 4D, but maybe he'll be more of a 3/4 than a 2/3 at evens.

[Bure_Pavel]

16 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

I noticed this play too, it looks like a lack of awareness more than out muscling perse, but still speaks to an issue.

 

Another thing I noticed with ASP was he can sometimes be too aggressive defending on the rush, he likes to take the body / jump on the puck carrier in those situations & a few times it can take him out of the play a bit & lead to a chance. Willander is better at picking his spots.

 

Overall I felt good about ASP's defense. He has a good stick, he can take the puck away & find the option quickly, reads the play well enough, not afraid to battle along the walls or infront of the net, but he does have these gaffees.

 

I think his defensive game is good enough to be a top 4D, but maybe he'll be more of a 3/4 than a 2/3 at evens.

ASP has acknowledged that his defensive game was essentially trash at the beginning of the year. The reason you would consider drafting him at 11 is more the end to end rush he did the play before that gaffe.   

Edited June 14, 2023 by Bure_Pavel

[Smashian Kassian]

25 minutes ago, JamesB said:

Even though I favor taking a C (Danielson, Moore or Dvorsky) in view of the likely options at #11, I agree that your take is very reasonable.

 

It is quite possible that Canuck management is looking at things the same way you are, which is why Willander, Barlow (and Wood and Benson) are all on their "short list" (along with Danielson). And obviously they know a lot more than any of us.

 

It will be interesting to see where Benson goes. He had been viewed as likely to go in the 5-8 range for most of the season but his stock has fallen a bit recently. He is small and he is expected to play wing in the NHL (not center) so those are two strikes against him. And his playoff performance in the WHL dropped off from the regular season. Guys like Smith, Leonard Dvorsky and Reinbacher have moved ahead of him on most draft boards. He could be there at 11. Do the Canucks snap him up and say "thanks very much" or do they go for Danielson or WIllander or Barlow or Wood instead,

 

Seems like the Canucks like Danielson alot. I'm gunna watch more video, so who knows by tomo I might be all turned around advocating to take Danielson.  There are some good options here though, Danielson could even go before us, I imagine teams lists are all over the place so it's gunna be interesting to see it play out.

 

I agree on Benson, outside of Michkov he might be the most fascinating guy to watch (Wood aswell).

 

I don't think he hurt his own stock so much as teams always value good defenseman & reliable C's. And their views become reflected this time of year when the draft becomes a greater focus generally as opposed to just the public lists throughout the year. 

 

I'm a bit torn on him at #11. I think Benson is going to be really good, but I also think there's good D & C's that we need. I go back & forth on what to do in that scenario.

 

[Herberts Vasiljevs]

11 feels like a bit of a tricky pick but with no shortage of options...

[spook007]

41 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

Cheers mate. 

 

I still chuckle at Ronaldo and how Ferguson just said don't let the door hit you on the way out.  Yes soccer has become full of country club babies who whine and demand out as soon as someone else signs a bigger contract and takes the spotlight. I find it pathetic. I'm a scouser (I know I know lol) and I can't even get behind a group of players because we're just a feeder club for Real, Barca, Inter, Juve, and Man City. As soon as I like a player he's gone.

 

One thing with this debate I will raise is what if we don't win a Cup or go super far in the next two years? I guess by your stance then they are going to want out then anyway. However, what if at that time Miller is also slowing down (probably won't be that soon but suppose), then we'll be sitting there with Petey and Hughes on the team going damn we have an 8 million dollar albatross contract. Wouldn't it have been better to trade him for some firsts and a younger center and they might be contributing to a winner in 3 years and lamenting the same thing you are now? We should have bit the bullet and done it the right way imo.

 

Having said that I agree, the writing is on the wall and we're going for it now. My concern is taking shortcuts yet again will leave us with the exact same gripes in two years time but I agree with you logic on this one as well. Great chats amigo, I very much enjoy analyzing the game with you and the others here!

A scouser.... oh noooooo  lol

Yes they don't make them like the used to... Fergie, Busby, Paisley, Clough etc... 

 

It will depend on the C they would get... yes we should have bit the bullit a few years back, and used the time we sucked to get more/higher picks.

 

And yes Miller may turn into an Albatros, but this at least we don't know  

 

All the best amigo

 

 

[Nucker 67]

The more I think about it, the more I want Danielson.

 

He's got size, can skate like the wind, and a good skater too, not just fast. He's a natural C and would form a really nice 1-2 punch at C (Pettersson-Danielson). He can make nice passes, good hands, great shot, good defensively and who knows how good he'll get with proper development. Maybe he even grows a bit more and gets to 6'3" 200. 

 

Kuzmenko - Pettersson - Beauvillier

Miller - Danielson - Lekkerimaki

 

Something like this down the road? Maybe they switch out Beau for a different RW?

 

Edited June 14, 2023 by NUCKER67

[Pure961089]

13 hours ago, spook007 said:

 Think it is more an indication of, how close this group of picks (8-16) are, and that the maturity/brain may be the deciding factor in, who to take...

Also regarding Wilander do these outlets have as good a read on him, as Gradin and his Swedish scouting net work does? They didn't quite with Petey did they?

Canucks may have an inside track on Wilander, thus being higher on him... I

f they see him as Tanev, I would not be against that at all....

Absolutely, anyone from #5 to #20 is anyone's guess.  For example Button has ASP 5th but The Hockey News has him 14th OA.  It's all over the place once you get past Smith, nobody has any idea where Michkov will end up and he's arguably the 2nd most talented player.  All we have to go with is the consensus but scouts don't draft players GMs draft players and it doesn't matter where players rank all that matters is the 10 GMs that pick before the Canucks.  We don't know what they're looking for or how the scouting staffs of each team assesses talent.  SomethIng tells me the smaller players will fall because of the bar Vegas has set. 

[Canucks Curse]

do something 

[Canucks Curse]

I think Danielson and Wallinder by position is what I would want, Moore also fine, but no word on sucks interest, if they are gone, Barlow does sound like he has grit and is a guy you win with, 

[Off_The_Schneid!]

57 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

As high a ceiling as Benson could have, there could be a lot of risk taking him too. The size thing and projecting as a winger, but also, is he tough enough to withstand the physical NHL? Does he have a history of injuries? I would be excited to have him on the team, but I'd be nervous about him too. I think I would feel more confident in the team moving forward if they nabbed a really good C (Dvorsky, Danielson, Moore)

 

 

It’s curious why everyone just writes off Benson as a sure fire winger. Has he been playing wing at the international stage? 

[HighOnHockey]

Anybody have Will Smith at 2nd overall?

[Nucker 67]

Just now, Off_The_Schneid! said:

It’s curious why everyone just writes off Benson as a sure fire winger. Has he been playing wing at the international stage? 

I think because of his size, the better Cs in the NHL have size. Some feel that Yager might be better off as a winger as well, guess we'll see. 

[Off_The_Schneid!]

 

[HighOnHockey]

14 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

The more I think about it, the more I want Danielson.

 

He's got size, can skate like the wind, and a good skater too, not just fast. He's a natural C and would form a really nice 1-2 punch at C (Pettersson-Danielson). He can make nice passes, good hands, great shot, good defensively and who knows how good he'll get with proper development. Maybe he even grows a bit more and gets to 6'3" 200. 

 

Kuzmenko - Pettersson - Beauvillier

Miller - Danielson - Lekkerimaki

 

Something like this down the road? Maybe they switch out Beau for a different RW?

 

I'd be pretty stoked if the Canucks took Danielson. The first thing that stood out about him to me is just how heavy he plays. You've got guys like Musty and Noel Nordh who have the size but I'm not sure always take advantage of it. Dvorsky also plays a very heavy game, but Danielson's skating is going to be the extra element that sets him apart from other players in the draft (besides Fantilli and Carlsson). It's Miroshnichenko-esque, the way he leans into people at full speed and if they make one mistake he can either blow by them or drag them to the net. Smaller or slower defensemen are going to have a lot of trouble dandling him.

[eeeeergh]

3 minutes ago, HighOnHockey said:

I'd be pretty stoked if the Canucks took Danielson. The first thing that stood out about him to me is just how heavy he plays. You've got guys like Musty and Noel Nordh who have the size but I'm not sure always take advantage of it. Dvorsky also plays a very heavy game, but Danielson's skating is going to be the extra element that sets him apart from other players in the draft (besides Fantilli and Carlsson). It's Miroshnichenko-esque, the way he leans into people at full speed and if they make one mistake he can either blow by them or drag them to the net. Smaller or slower defensemen are going to have a lot of trouble dandling him.

you dont feel like his production is kind of underwhelming considering his size & the size of his opponents in the WHL? 

 

also why is nobody taking kalan lind?

 

 

[250Integra]

2 hours ago, Canucks Curse said:

LMFAO at JB for 2019 where he essentially drafted all wingers (the least premium position) other than silovs

Did you even look at the picks?? How is that a LMFAO??

 

Podkolzin was arguably the BAP at #10. The next player in consideration was Boldy but he is also a winger. I wanted Newhook but he's a bit of an undersized Center. Soderstrom is a defensemen but you take Podkolzin 10/10 over him (at that point in time). Remember that Pods was also considered a top 3 pick for most of the year.

 

Hoglander at #40 was a steal. If you look at the 2nd round of that draft, he's arguably one of the best players selected (so far).

 

Carson Focht was selected in the 5th round and he's a Center...

 

Arvid Costmar was selected in the 7th round and he's a Center...

 

Edited June 14, 2023 by 250Integra

[HighOnHockey]

2 minutes ago, eeeeergh said:

you dont feel like his production is kind of underwhelming considering his size & the size of his opponents in the WHL? 

 

also why is nobody taking kalan lind?

 

 

Nah. It's his second full WHL season. He led his non-playoff team in scoring, for a team that had 3 players surpass 50 points, and 4 players surpass 40. And while I expect he'll play in the NHL at 200+, it's not like we're talking about Dvorsky or Koehn Ziemmer here who are already mountains, Danielson weighed in at 186 at the combine. But my point was he plays heavy.