[PGT] Nashville Predators at Vancouver Canucks | Nov. 05, 2022

[canuck73_3]

1 minute ago, Mustard Tiger said:

What else needs to be shown that this build is terrible? The team is full of good players with horrible chemistry. We keep trying to make it work and it just won't. I'm ready to draw the line in the sand this year and sell

So this “build is terrible” so moving out Miller, Myers and Boeser/Garland is dumb? Gotcha. 

[stawns]

2 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

I see Bo becoming more and more a ghost with THIS team. 

[Boudrias]

1 minute ago, SilentSam said:

I see Bo becoming more and more a ghost with THIS team. 

If he senses a gut job then I think he moves on. Inevitably I think we are headed for a tear down. Maybe PA is good for that road but is Rutherford. He will likely retire before a new roster matures. Will the Acqullinis be up for that? Will the fans? In 50 years they haven't been. Look how ownership in Ottawa was pillored. Actually the most loyal group has been Edmonton. Years of whoops. 

[stawns]

2 minutes ago, Mustard Tiger said:

What else needs to be shown that this build is terrible? The team is full of good players with horrible chemistry. We keep trying to make it work and it just won't. I'm ready to draw the line in the sand this year and sell

You sell, for sure, but you don't sell on the young players with their prime years ahead of them and you don't sell on players who play key ropes that you don't have replacements for.  You can sell on miller without taking a massive step backwards because there are players who can fill that role.  You don't sell on Bo because there is no one on the team or in the system to fill that role and they'd be taking a massive, likely catastrophic step backward by doing so.

[Mustard Tiger]

8 minutes ago, Canuckster86 said:

If Bo walks or gets traded Canucks likely become very weak at C. Does that mean we give Horvat a blank cheque...not a chance but he is scoring at a crazy rate and just so happens to be a pending UFA C in a weak FA C off season. With the cap going up a few Million who knows what a team could offer him, surely 7 year max term and trade protection and a team may go well above 8m on the AAV, could even hit 9m or who knows how high depending on his season stats at the end of the year.

 

If Horvat has a 40-50G 80-90pt season the sky could be the limit for his next deal, it only takes 1 delusional GM to overpay and this team should know all about seeing a GM overpay on July 1 for players...

Okay but live in the now. We have EP and BO in a pretty strong top 6. Skills show on the PP but every other aspect of the game is very concerning. It's been a decade of finishing near the bottom. We added to last year's group and got worse. That's enough of a sample size to know the combination of players just does not work. It's not to say we even have any bad FWDS... they are all pretty decent in their own right... It's just our build is not working and I'm ready to start fixing that issue while guys are approaching 30 and looking for massive contracts

[Mustard Tiger]

BOYS STOP QUOTING ME IM STUGGLING TO KEEP UP 

[DrJockitch]

8 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

If I had to choose, I'd probably trade Miller and Boeser. Fix the D, bring in more toughness into the bottom 6.

 

I wonder how long JR/PA will take before they make a big move. The TDL?  

Almost has to be with the cap complications of a few years of flat cap. 

[Odd.]

Main takeaway from last nights game is that Ethan Bear is a top 4 defenseman. 

[higgyfan]

26 minutes ago, EddieVedder said:

Yes.  Demko keeps getting outplayed.  Thats why we are losing.

Hes playing worse than halak did last year and no one imagined it could get worse than that shltshow

Demko's last 4 games have him at +.900.  He had surgery in the off season and is slowly getting

back into form.

 

Martin has played 3g with .899.  It's a bit too soon to proclaim him as the starter for the Canucks!

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

So this “build is terrible” so moving out Miller, Myers and Boeser/Garland is dumb? Gotcha. 

IMHO those four all together have no where near to Bo’s current value in trade.  

Miller has that huge contract.

Myers is on a big ticket for another year after this one.

Boeser has a bad contract.  

Garland has some value, but no where near does he make up for those other three.

 

So it’s Bo who has a lot of value.  Plus, we already have Miller to move back to centre.  Would absolutely need to get back a defensive right shot 3C as part of a Bo return though.  Unless we tank, which we all know our owner will not allow.  

[stawns]

Just now, Odd. said:

Main takeaway from last nights game is that Ethan Bear is a top 4 defenseman. 

He played well last night, for sure.  He's probably a keeper going fwd.

 

[BigTramFan]

8 minutes ago, stawns said:

I'd certainly rather pay it to bo for the entirety of his prime years and maybe a year or two of just coming out of his prime over a year or two of miller's prime and 5-6 years of his decline

Hang on. Miller is 29 and Bo is 27.

 

If we resigned Bo to 7 years starting next season, like Miller, then I can't see how Bo can get 5-6 years of "prime" and Miller gets only 1-2 years of "prime"

 

It's hard to define "prime" vs "decline" and each player is different, but if we assume that age 33 decline starts, then we will have 3 years of prime Miller and 4 years of declining Miller.

 

Likelihood is that Bo is signed for 8 years (max term) so for Bo, we will get 5 years of prime time and 3 years of declining Bo.

Edited November 6, 2022 by BigTramFan

[Odd.]

1 minute ago, stawns said:

He played well last night, for sure.  He's probably a keeper going fwd.

 

At least I think he can be. Aside from his first game, he’s been solid.

[RogersTowell]

The problem last night was a pretty common problem with this team.  They were brilliant, but only for at most half of the game.  First period PK was exactly what it should be - aggressive on the puck, active sticks, minimising shots to near zero.  After that, more passive and less effective.  First period 5 on 5, the Canucks took the initiative, moved the puck out of their own zone well, forechecked hard and created chances.  After that, not so much.  The fix isn't necessarily personnel, it's lighting fires under butts.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, ba;;isticsports said:

I agree that fixed term helps teams decide to buy or not

But

Much like in a housing market with high interest rates of what was once an overinflated market, I think it turns to a buyers favour with having had a flat cap and teams star contracts needing resigned

Just like Homeowners who remember the buying frenzy of multiple bidding with no conditions, and not taking less now (but not selling because of a different market now either) maybe GM's struggle with remembering what players would once get them? (before most teams maxed out)

 

I see what you mean...   in housing they say that the market is "sticky" on the way down, meaning that even when the bottom drops out in terms of supply/demand, it takes a long time for prices to catch up because of what you're describing.  

Of course in a hot market, prices shoot up very fast.  

 

We will see if Allvin can recoup trade value with this roster, but he hasn't impressed me much so far.  I have really liked the acquisition of Aman and Kuzmenko, but his trades leave a lot to be desired IMO.  

 

The fact that he hasn't been able to move out any one of Boeser/Garland/Pearson/Bo/JT and shift some of the money into defense or cap space, does suggest that his evaluation doesn't line up with what the league is offering at the moment and I'm okay with it all.  I would really like to see Brock Boeser's value re-built before we think about moving him.  Jason Dickinson definitely could've been moved for cheaper if we had allowed him some time to rebuild himself this year.  

[Strawbone]

Miller vs Bo is like Republicans vs Democrats. Half the people are on either side and you’ll never get them to agree. 

[Roberts]

Some canucks players skate so slowly and effortlessly to the bench for line changes, even in overtime.

[stawns]

1 minute ago, BigTramFan said:

Hang on. Miller is 29 and Bo is 27.

 

If we resigned Bo to 7 years starting next season, like Miller, then I can't see how Bo can get 5-6 years of "prime" and Miller gets only 1-2 years of "prime"

Miller will be 30 when his new deal kicks in.  You'll probably get a couple years of peak miller, then a year or two of still effective, but off his peak Miller and a few years of slow, not so good miller.  

 

At 28, you'll get 4ish years of peak Bo and a couple years of just off his peak and then a year or two of declining play.  To me, the difference is significant and Bo also has a more important skill set that will help remain effective even into his declining years.

 

 

[stawns]

4 minutes ago, Strawbone said:

Miller vs Bo is like Republicans vs Democrats. Half the people are on either side and you’ll never get them to agree. 

I don't think anyone disagrees that miller is a great player, he is.  That's not where the disagreement is

[Strawbone]

1 minute ago, Roberts said:

Some canucks players skate so slowly and effortlessly to the bench for line changes, even in overtime.

I couldn’t believe the lack of urgency late in that game. Even the shootout. Two of the most tepid efforts I’ve ever seen. Maybe they all have naps in the 2nd intermission. Whatever it is, they need to change it up.