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Tank Hard for Bedard - Playoff chances are already Slim

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21 hours ago, iceman64 said:

We beat some of the best teams in the league last year with a lesser roster, and have done it a few times this season BUT selling everyone? That's just stupid..  pull off a cpl of roster upgrades, sign some character players with snarl SIZE speed and decent skill, keep drafting D first and foremost. 

 And NOT expect miracles in the process... LIKE NOW! 

 The way this team was locked in contractually wise from 2012 onward and saddled with Luongo's recapture was doom until they all dropped off one by one... 

I'm amazed that we're not dead last with no hope of parole, let alone anywhere near trying to get in the post season. 

 

So your plan is what exactly?  Magically make the roster way better by adding upgrades and all the other things you mention without having any assets or cap space?

 

Slowly build the D through the draft like you said (that takes 3-8 years to draft and mature enough players IF you are lucky enough to hit on picks for the next 2-3 years). So keep not making the playoffs until all our good club controlled guys make it to UFA and sign elsewhere for nothing?

 

You seem to be the one expecting miracles.

 

Your “plan” appears to be continue with the status quo of being a bad team and every year try to convince the useful pending UFAs to sign here without overpaying them to stay on a losing team.  At the same time, target the exact type of players everyone else wants (big, mean, fast, and skilled) and try to convince them to come to a losing team.

 

 

 

 

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19 hours ago, DSVII said:

No one is expecting miracles, we know this is a long process to rebuild, and the sooner we start the sooner it ends. Rather than come to that realization 3 years later and THEN starting that 5 year process.

 

We've fallen for the trap of doing long term projections based on a limited sample size too many times, first it was the 2020 Bubble where we declared this was the real team, then the Boudreau Bump, and now we're reduced to looking at 2-3 game sample sizes where we beat teams that most likely didn't take us seriously (remember how the 2011 nucks never gave a crap when they played arizona or buffalo and lost, we are that team now.) 

 

This team has shown us multiple years its true colors, it's time to believe the results for what they are. This isn't working.

Of course it's not working, we need more Garland's but 6'2 210, who even when not scoring makes opposing players pay for touching the puck and good speed/work ethic, not only are we the 4th smallest team in the league the toughest guy we have is schenner and he, on his own, obviously isn't enough. 

 It doesn't matter if we make the playoffs or not, we don't have the depth to go far anyway, toughen up and add depth and perhaps in the next 2 years we might be able to go further but coming out of such a long stretch with so many locked in player with NTC's is over and we can finally do some tweaking via trade.. 

(As long as they keep my guy Kuz) lol 

 And Demko/Hughes.. everyone else can be available. I fully expect JR to put something together but we need to be a tough fast skilled team WITH depth.. nothing else will ever get us anything and we off all fans should know this better than anyone... 

 Will we ever get the 2011 tough, hard hitting, fast forechecking team BUT this time with depth.. without it?! Well you know...

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On 1/8/2023 at 7:12 PM, Provost said:

So your plan is what exactly?  Magically make the roster way better by adding upgrades and all the other things you mention without having any assets or cap space?

 

Slowly build the D through the draft like you said (that takes 3-8 years to draft and mature enough players IF you are lucky enough to hit on picks for the next 2-3 years). So keep not making the playoffs until all our good club controlled guys make it to UFA and sign elsewhere for nothing?

 

You seem to be the one expecting miracles.

 

Your “plan” appears to be continue with the status quo of being a bad team and every year try to convince the useful pending UFAs to sign here without overpaying them to stay on a losing team.  At the same time, target the exact type of players everyone else wants (big, mean, fast, and skilled) and try to convince them to come to a losing team.

 

 

 

 

No, not if done properly, and it can be tweaked a zillion different ways, but no UFA's, and it can be D picks kept and developed but target trades for up and coming prospects already in their curve. 

 And in the next 2 years we have some cap coming off, but I'd almost put money Bo is traded straight across on the speculation roughly of his upcoming expected cap and then go after a 5 mil Dman instead of the 9 mil he'll be offered (ish) if he keeps up his current tear and top D prospect/s and pick/s whatever.. 

 Boeser can be traded out with a some salary retained in return for a prospect. 

 And the players coming off salary to whatever degree to up ante for Kuz as well. 

 We'll know where Podz is in 2 seasons for stay or go.

Garland will end up gone, for whatever we can get for him and save more cap.

 

Plus Pearson will be gone, the season after Tree as well and another spot open and up for grabs. 

 There's a lot that can happen... And those are only a couple and obviously there's more but trending up with a bigger tougher faster skilled team is the only answer, whether we like it or not .. 

 The playoffs are no place for smaller softer teams or close to it.... 

 

Edited by iceman64
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On 1/8/2023 at 9:44 PM, Provost said:

Really it is just hoping for the best pick possible.  The top three guys in the draft would have all been #1 in the last couple drafts…. So there are some pretty good consolation prizes.

 

We have a legit shot at being a bottom 5 team if we sell off some players.

 

If we stay status quo, we have a legit shot at getting up to 20th spot in the league and miss out on even a top ten pick again.  

Theres about 10 guys in first round that are sure fire franchise players.  

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As I mentioned before, there wasn't likely to be much movement in odds during December.  Most teams play between .450 and .650 hockey so there isn't a lot of wiggle room to move up or down dramatically.

We are now at the point where the odds can plummet pretty drastically as the remaining games start dropping and we haven't gained any ground (have lost ground actually).  There are just fewer opportunities to make up points.  Each loss drops our odds by a decent amount and each win doesn't increase our odds by the same margin.

When I made the OP:
The odds of the Canucks making the playoffs on various websites as of 13th Nov:
MoneyPuck 8.5%
Playoff Status 21%
Hockey Reference 16.5%
Power Rankings 19.1%
Five Thirty Eight 24%

The odds two months later as of the 13th of January... compare these with our odds of drafting Bedard being 6.5%
Moneypuck 0.9%     
Playoff Status 10.0%

Hockey Reference 5.3%
Power Rankings 3.5%
Five Thirty Eight 5%

As always, I caution that Moneypuck is probably the least reliable, it is very volatile and seems like they put a lot more weight on recent games than the other models... so it plummet during a 3 game skid and skyrockets after a 3 game winning streak.  If you take an aggregate look, we probably have somewhere around a 5% of making the playoffs.

Edited by Provost
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Even if the nucks go into full tank mode all they can ever hope for is pure luck in winning the draft..  in order to keep petey they need to get a new coach or two in here to teach the players better habits and structure on defensive side of puck.  They will never win without it and jr knows this.  Its entertaining to watch shinny out there but it will be a considerably more boring brand of hockey to be more successful..  winning is the only thing that will keep petey here despite what he says publicly..  

even with a top 5 pick in draft what has jr proven that he can draft properly with the right type of players based on his draft history?

the only thing he has proven is he seems to get talent in free agency that works.  I like most of his additions this year.. I've said it many times, you need to hit on late round picks with size and speed to contribute to the team for it to be successful.. cant live on free agent signings to fill all the holes.. i would continue to overhaul the amateur scouting department

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