Tank Hard for Bedard - Playoff chances are already Slim

[Trebreh]

37 minutes ago, Heretic said:

NBA fines Mavs $750K; says they 'undermined the integrity of our sport'.  
 

Ducks lost their last 13 games of the season - why doesn't the NHL fine them for tanking?

Because the nhl is a Mickey Mouse league.

[awalk]

40 minutes ago, Heretic said:

NBA fines Mavs $750K; says they 'undermined the integrity of our sport'.  
 

Ducks lost their last 13 games of the season - why doesn't the NHL fine them for tanking?

That would require the NHL to admit that tanking exists 

[spook007]

2 hours ago, Heretic said:

NBA fines Mavs $750K; says they 'undermined the integrity of our sport'.  
 

Ducks lost their last 13 games of the season - why doesn't the NHL fine them for tanking?

Agree.... but peanuts.... 

if we could get 1 of the top 4 for $750K, I'll take that in a heart beat. 

[clutesi]

This late season win streak has got to be one of the most self-destructive moves in the Canucks' long history of bad moves. So what did we gain from beating teams clearly tanking and teams preparing for the playoffs? We've pretty much guaranteed we won't daft top ten in a deep draft when we badly need young talent. There's a generational talent at no. 1 but why would we try to increase our odds to get him? 

[Taphouse Canuck]

2 hours ago, clutesi said:

This late season win streak has got to be one of the most self-destructive moves in the Canucks' long history of bad moves. So what did we gain from beating teams clearly tanking and teams preparing for the playoffs? We've pretty much guaranteed we won't daft top ten in a deep draft when we badly need young talent. There's a generational talent at no. 1 but why would we try to increase our odds to get him? 

Yep, we've gone from picking top 5 (0r potentially higher) to 11th. sure we'll get a good player, but probably not a game-changer. I'm so disappointed with the way this season finished.

[Hairy Kneel]

7 hours ago, Eddie said:

Yeah i'm kinda gutted that after another terrible season of on-ice disappointment and other drama we have literally nothing to show for it - other than 'building a winning culture' that has been pitched for the last 10 year and has won us absolutely dick all - in fact I've never seen a more fragile team. 

 

Let's face it there is zero chance we move up - even given our statistical history of moving down - so no point even setting yourself up for disappointment there

 

I'd be happier drafting 11th if this organization has shown it could draft worth a dam but in all honesty their history with the draft during a rebuild is completely terrible and I can only envision us drafting another underweight, 1 dimensional bust noodle who gets mono at the draft and then gets injured for most the season... the sad thing is that isn't even a direct slur on last years 1st round pick either you can take your pick from the last 10 years almost. A top 5 pick this year would have been pretty hard to miss on given the draft class - likely now our best option is to trade the bloody thing.

 

I mean I'm not completely down on the future of the team given the performance of the core in the second half of this year. But compared to what every other team around us did this feels like a huge opportunity missed while the high talent in the draft will likely go to strengthening one of our rivals over the next few years that executed a better long term strategy. 

 

Also I don't really wanna hear the - Oh we'd never get a high pick with QH, EP etc - look at the Av's drafting Makar ahead of us that year with Mac ,Rants, Landeskog etc lol - And they now have a cup to show for it. Long term strategy builds winning organizations !

This building a winning culture is batam league bs coaches yell. We haven't even had a full slate of players. And this coach like previous coaches on a medium level team, rely's too heavily on our top 3 players. 

We need to roll 4 lines to win a season and win a playoff round. 

These are pros, they look around and see we are lacking some pieces. We're going to pick 11th when we were a shoe in for a top 5 before the winning streak. 

[Screw]

The entire draft lotto system is broken.   It is horrible that fans are forced to cheer for their teams to lose.  It’s a simple fact that tanking is rewarded. 
 

In my opinion the only way to get away from this is for all non-playoff teams to get an equal chance at 1 through 5 in the lotto.   There will then be very little incentive to tank.  
 

Will this throw off parity?   What does having teams behaving like Chicago, Anaheim and Arizona do for the league?  Good lord…

[Provost]

34 minutes ago, Hairy Kneel said:

This building a winning culture is batam league bs coaches yell. We haven't even had a full slate of players. And this coach like previous coaches on a medium level team, rely's too heavily on our top 3 players. 

We need to roll 4 lines to win a season and win a playoff round. 

These are pros, they look around and see we are lacking some pieces. We're going to pick 11th when we were a shoe in for a top 5 before the winning streak. 

Looking forward to next season and the team is just completely screwed.  A few million over the cap with only a 20 person roster or mostly AHLers, carry over bonus penalties from a guy like Kuzmenko.  Not likely to know the future of Pearson and Poolman and whether they are out the whole season so we have to leave cap space assuming they will come back and can't spend it on replacement players.

It is going to be buyouts, retained salary transactions, and futures spent to get rid of bad contracts.  Just to bring back a worse roster than we have now.

Then follow up the next season by spending all our newly opened cap space on Petterson and Hronek raises if we can somehow convince them to stay and extend long term.

[OldFaithfulCap]

6 hours ago, Heretic said:

NBA fines Mavs $750K; says they 'undermined the integrity of our sport'.  
 

Ducks lost their last 13 games of the season - why doesn't the NHL fine them for tanking?

i can't believe the mavs didn't lose a 1st rounder when they did this to save giving up a 1st rounder. Crazy stuff

[Maddogy]

Guys, God does not give a crap about the Vancouver Canucks or its fanbase. If he cared the team would have already won the Cup. Accept that this is a forsaken team and enjoy the small victories along the way. I will follow this team knowing that they may never win a Cup.

Edited April 15, 2023 by Maddogy

[dougieL]

10 hours ago, clutesi said:

This late season win streak has got to be one of the most self-destructive moves in the Canucks' long history of bad moves. So what did we gain from beating teams clearly tanking and teams preparing for the playoffs? We've pretty much guaranteed we won't daft top ten in a deep draft when we badly need young talent. There's a generational talent at no. 1 but why would we try to increase our odds to get him? 

Consider that the management team saw fit to make a coaching change when it was too late to make a meaningful playoff push, and yet with plenty of time left to make a meaningful run out of a good draft position. Their stupidity is truly stunning.

[dougieL]

15 hours ago, Eddie said:

Yeah i'm kinda gutted that after another terrible season of on-ice disappointment and other drama we have literally nothing to show for it - other than 'building a winning culture' that has been pitched for the last 10 year and has won us absolutely dick all - in fact I've never seen a more fragile team. 

 

Let's face it there is zero chance we move up - even given our statistical history of moving down - so no point even setting yourself up for disappointment there

 

I'd be happier drafting 11th if this organization has shown it could draft worth a dam but in all honesty their history with the draft during a rebuild is completely terrible and I can only envision us drafting another underweight, 1 dimensional bust noodle who gets mono at the draft and then gets injured for most the season... the sad thing is that isn't even a direct slur on last years 1st round pick either you can take your pick from the last 10 years almost. A top 5 pick this year would have been pretty hard to miss on given the draft class - likely now our best option is to trade the bloody thing.

 

I mean I'm not completely down on the future of the team given the performance of the core in the second half of this year. But compared to what every other team around us did this feels like a huge opportunity missed while the high talent in the draft will likely go to strengthening one of our rivals over the next few years that executed a better long term strategy. 

 

Also I don't really wanna hear the - Oh we'd never get a high pick with QH, EP etc - look at the Av's drafting Makar ahead of us that year with Mac ,Rants, Landeskog etc lol - And they now have a cup to show for it. Long term strategy builds winning organizations !

 

You know what builds a "winning culture"? Drafting really good players to help you...you know...win. And I can't stand people who say we wouldn't have won the lottery anyway. These people need to understand that drafting 5th gives us a much better chance at getting a good player than drafting 11th. Even one spot can make a huge difference. The "anti-tankists" who think they hold the moral high ground seriously need to start basing their opinions on facts.

[Baggins]

41 minutes ago, dougieL said:

 

You know what builds a "winning culture"? Drafting really good players to help you...you know...win. And I can't stand people who say we wouldn't have won the lottery anyway. These people need to understand that drafting 5th gives us a much better chance at getting a good player than drafting 11th. Even one spot can make a huge difference. The "anti-tankists" who think they hold the moral high ground seriously need to start basing their opinions on facts.

I thought this was a really deep draft. If so how is it we can't get a good player at 11?

 

[Baggins]

8 hours ago, Screw said:

The entire draft lotto system is broken.   It is horrible that fans are forced to cheer for their teams to lose.  It’s a simple fact that tanking is rewarded. 
 

In my opinion the only way to get away from this is for all non-playoff teams to get an equal chance at 1 through 5 in the lotto.   There will then be very little incentive to tank.  
 

Will this throw off parity?   What does having teams behaving like Chicago, Anaheim and Arizona do for the league?  Good lord…

I think it should be relatively even odds among the bottom 8 at getting first and second overall and slimmer odds for 9 through 16 to move up a maximum of eight spots. Once one and two are determined the reamining of the bottom eight teams draft order is determined on even odds. That way you could finish last and possibly pick 9th. You could finish 8th and have nearly as good odds of picking first. It would kill the incentive to be worst in the league. 

Edited April 15, 2023 by Baggins

[wai_lai416]

17 hours ago, Heretic said:

NBA fines Mavs $750K; says they 'undermined the integrity of our sport'.  
 

Ducks lost their last 13 games of the season - why doesn't the NHL fine them for tanking?

it's not even the same. they played all their players within their roster vs mavericks sat all their star players. the NHL teams are doing what they are allowed to do within the CBA.. spend to the minimum and see what happens.. you don't see the NBA fining Detroit.

[EddieVedder]

4 hours ago, dougieL said:

 

You know what builds a "winning culture"? Drafting really good players to help you...you know...win. And I can't stand people who say we wouldn't have won the lottery anyway. These people need to understand that drafting 5th gives us a much better chance at getting a good player than drafting 11th. Even one spot can make a huge difference. The "anti-tankists" who think they hold the moral high ground seriously need to start basing their opinions on facts.

True. But these guys drink too much of Aquas koolaid to understand.

They are convinced our core is good enough because the nucks marketing machine has them by the ballz.

Every other team is stockpiling on potentially impact high end prospects,  while we keep hoping garbage like rathbone, mcdonaugh and mcward etc can make a difference.

[Alflives]

Just now, EddieVedder said:

True. But these guys drink too much of Aquas koolaid to understand.

They are convinced our core is good enough because the nucks marketing machine has them by the ballz.

Every other team is stockpiling on potentially impact high end prospects,  while we keep hoping garbage like rathbone, mcdonaugh and mcward etc can make a difference.

Yup. The Ducks most skilled player, Zegras, is also their tank commander. 

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, EddieVedder said:

True. But these guys drink too much of Aquas koolaid to understand.

They are convinced our core is good enough because the nucks marketing machine has them by the ballz.

Every other team is stockpiling on potentially impact high end prospects,  while we keep hoping garbage like rathbone, mcdonaugh and mcward etc can make a difference.

Clearly it’s your belief our key core guys aren’t good enough. In your view Demko, Petey, Hughes, Miller, Hironek are not (as a group) good enough to win regardless of the supporting cast. 
So you’re saying it’s Canuck’s marketing that has tricked fans into believing these guys are good enough. 
Why don’t you explain why you think each of these core guys isn’t good enough? 

[nopROBlemo]

11 hours ago, Maddogy said:

Guys, God does not give a crap about the Vancouver Canucks or its fanbase. If he cared the team would have already won the Cup. Accept that this is a forsaken team and enjoy the small victories along the way. I will follow this team knowing that they may never win a Cup.

My thoughts exactly. Getting to obsessed with winning the cup can really take the enjoyment of supporting this team. Don't get me wrong I would like to witness the Canucks winning it all.

[DrJockitch]

16 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Clearly it’s your belief our key core guys aren’t good enough. In your view Demko, Petey, Hughes, Miller, Hironek are not (as a group) good enough to win regardless of the supporting cast. 
So you’re saying it’s Canuck’s marketing that has tricked fans into believing these guys are good enough. 
Why don’t you explain why you think each of these core guys isn’t good enough? 

Won’t quibble about individual players. Haven’t seen enough of Hronek to know if he is truly core and he is coming in off an injury looking to get paid. He may pull a JTM/Bo and focus on scoring as many points as possible while abandoning D because it is contract year. 
The core has some really nice players. EP is a top 2 way centre in this league, Quinn is best D man we have ever had and people are starting to understand how good he is on D. Demko has been solid his entire career except for early this year but his health is a big concern. 
Miller I have concerns about fitness and general professionalism but once he rounds into shape about 1/3 of the way into the season he can be a really good offensive player, he needs to mitigate the damage he is doing while rounding into shape though. 
With all that plus Kuzmenko and half a season of Mik we were still worse than last year. 
This team needs a complete rejigging around that core and that is really hard to do when you have no cap room, some massive RFA bills coming and depleted draft capital.  They have bolstered the prospect pool from worst in the league to probably somewhere in the bottom third. 
A lot of work to do and they have really handcuffed their ability to do it with wild spending on the wing without being able to subtract players. I suspect we will need to waste another year before we can make major D changes. Just hope they at least find a way to clear out 2-3 of Beau, Brock and Garland so they can start restructuring around the core. 
I will keep saying this too, next years first rounder will go out to clear some cap to overspend on a UFA to address one spot on the roster when about 10 need addressing. 

Edited April 15, 2023 by DrJockitch