[Proposal] Schenn to Leafs. They need Dmen

[JM_]

17 minutes ago, Harold Drunken said:

Probably Kyle Dubas, I feel like we are the one who would be having to throw in a pick to offload OEL's contract without retaining some of his salary. 

I dunno, for some reason I feel like its possible. OEL saw how much TO loves their Swedes, maybe he's open to going there. 

 

OEL is capable of more than just being Myers baby sitter. On a functioning team he's easily a quality top 4 for them.

[Harold Drunken]

19 minutes ago, Pears said:

The same guy traded a 1st round pick for Nick Foligno so I wouldn’t necessarily put it past him. 

That's a good point, although Foligno was only making $3.8 per, OEL is $8.25 (until 2027) so not necessarily apples to apples. He's the 13th highest paid defenseman in the league and not playing anywhere near that so we would be retaining salary or also throwing a pick their way I would bet. 

Edited November 15, 2022 by Harold Drunken

[Harold Drunken]

Just now, JM_ said:

I dunno, for some reason I feel like its possible. OEL saw how much TO loves their Swedes, maybe he's open to going there. 

 

OEL is capable of more than just being Myers baby sitter. On a functioning team he's easily a quality top 4 for them.

Yeah, but even on the PP he doesn't look comfortable....which is odd considering how many years he quarterbacked the Coyotes PP. He just looks nervous with the puck on his stick, maybe it's just me but that's what I see. Hey, if it can be done without retaining salary do it, hell even if we retain a million or two it's probably a good move. 

[Ghostsof1915]

39 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

He's not, but that's part of the point. If there's a season to bottom out it's probably this one. We've also got a glut of "what if's" we'll need to make room for. They likely re-up another RD in Bear, and Dermott is also a pending RFA who can play both sides. Our top RD prospect in Filip Johannson could also step in as early as next season if he has a good camp. There's depth in place at RD that'd get us through the remainder of the season. Hell, Poolman may very well return at some point.

 

At 33 it's not as if Schenn is going to be a long-term core piece anyway. Which isn't to say he probably couldn't provide value til retirement. If the idea is to be bad for a while and change the roster and culture it likely also means playing younger players more. It's not as if we wouldn't still have vets on the roster, I doubt OEL is going anywhere. 

 

If a team offers really good value for Schenn I take it, run, and plunk someone else into his spot. I like Schenn, I understand why people want to keep him, but I'm all about assets at this point. There's not a lot of room for sentimentality when it comes to a rebuild. 

 

 

He's one of six defencemen. Once again it depends on the return. If we're talking late 1st round pick sure. It's not like Schenn is denying other players in development. 

You also need vet's to help the young players develop, especially highly drafted players who know the pressure young players would be going through. You don't want an Edmonton scenario either. 

[Coconuts]

4 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

He's one of six defencemen. Once again it depends on the return. If we're talking late 1st round pick sure. It's not like Schenn is denying other players in development. 

You also need vet's to help the young players develop, especially highly drafted players who know the pressure young players would be going through. You don't want an Edmonton scenario either. 

I strongly doubt anyone gives up a 1st for Schenn. 

 

And I agree vets have their place, but vets can also be grabbed via UFA or as part of trade returns for guys who are shipped out. Schenn wouldn't be the only domino, it's likely Horvat goes imo and I'd move Miller out too as he wouldn't fit the timeline of a rebuild. Having vets around is essential, but that doesn't mean Schenn has to be one of them. 

 

If we keep him, great, I like Schenn. But yeah, I'd absolutely move him for a 2nd or a prospect recently drafted in the 2nd round. Particularly for a center or D prospect. 

Edited November 15, 2022 by Coconuts

[Blue Jay 22]

3 hours ago, MaxVerstappen33 said:

Muzzin might have a career ending injury. The Leafs are in win now mode. We should be selling for Bedard. There's a good match here.

 

Hell , maybe Myers and Schenn could go. For what ? Dunno. Leafs 1st + prospect ? Who do they have ?

Schenn has more value to the Nucks than in the open market. I’m guessing given his age/contract status/ceiling/value for what we got for him, we could prolly get a 5th…maybe a 4th round pick? That’s not bad considering we only traded a 7th, but I wouldn’t be opposed to keeping him if a cheap short term extension came with it.

 

I dunno what planet you think we live on to think Myers is going to warrant a 1st, but that’s not happening. In fact, probably should keep him away from any Schenn deal because he will bring the value down with his over bloated contract.

[-AJ-]

1 hour ago, Coconuts said:

I'm of the mind that a bottom feeder should be taking calls on everyone, and realistically if Schenn is in your top 4 that speaks to the quality of your D. Tanev and Schenn aren't remotely the same, Tanev was a legit to 4D but also a guy who folks had legitimate injury concerns about. There were questions as to how his body would hold up, I doubt anyone saw him being healthy in Calgary the way he has been. I was okay with letting him walk because of health concerns at the time. Schenn is realistically a bottom pairing guy on a better team, but also a guy who can play a bit higher if needed as he's shown. 

I wouldn't say that Schenn and Tanev are at all the same level of player--I consider them similar strictly in the sense that I felt both guys were worth more to us than they would be in a trade. Tanev was obviously far superior and had some distinct playstyle differences too.

[Canucks Curse]

5 hours ago, Coconuts said:

I strongly doubt anyone gives up a 1st for Schenn. 

 

And I agree vets have their place, but vets can also be grabbed via UFA or as part of trade returns for guys who are shipped out. Schenn wouldn't be the only domino, it's likely Horvat goes imo and I'd move Miller out too as he wouldn't fit the timeline of a rebuild. Having vets around is essential, but that doesn't mean Schenn has to be one of them. 

 

If we keep him, great, I like Schenn. But yeah, I'd absolutely move him for a 2nd or a prospect recently drafted in the 2nd round. Particularly for a center or D prospect. 

I think based on how he has played a lot of teams would easily pay a 2nd... so if multiple teams would then the price goes up, prob 2nd and a B+ prospect but I could see someone paying a 1st, he is legit playing like a top 4 d man right now

[NHL97OneTimer]

6 hours ago, Blue Jay 22 said:

Schenn has more value to the Nucks than in the open market. I’m guessing given his age/contract status/ceiling/value for what we got for him, we could prolly get a 5th…maybe a 4th round pick? That’s not bad considering we only traded a 7th, but I wouldn’t be opposed to keeping him if a cheap short term extension came with it.

 

Agree.  I would keep Schenn as losing him won't be worth the return.  He's been fantastic in so many ways this year and the type of guy you want around for a rebuild (on and off the ice).

 

We're weak on the D right now, so giving away a D is not going to help us (we're not going to instantly get a better D.  So even trading OEL or Myers should be done with the rebuild in mind.  If they can do it, hell yeah.  I think Myers would be picked up for given that he only has a year left.  OEL probably not but you never know.

[shazzam]

Rebuild or not, we need tough guys like Schenn around

[IBatch]

16 hours ago, Canucks Curse said:

I think based on how he has played a lot of teams would easily pay a 2nd... so if multiple teams would then the price goes up, prob 2nd and a B+ prospect but I could see someone paying a 1st, he is legit playing like a top 4 d man right now

Yes he is.   And when it comes to rentals it's always what have you done for me lately to a degree ... plus a top team's first isn't different then a bottom thirds second anyways.   Firsts have a shiny ring to them, but once you get past the top 1/2-2/3 of the first round certainty goes out the window.   Two seconds is definitely better then one first in that range for example.    Schenn for a second, from a bubble team, isn't really any different then from a team that gets to the second round for example and spends a first on someone that's a contender. 

 

Schenn and Kuzmo are both easily worth the same as a first from a contender going into this years draft, going for a second on middling teams. 

Edited November 16, 2022 by IBatch

[IBatch]

21 hours ago, Blue Jay 22 said:

Schenn has more value to the Nucks than in the open market. I’m guessing given his age/contract status/ceiling/value for what we got for him, we could prolly get a 5th…maybe a 4th round pick? That’s not bad considering we only traded a 7th, but I wouldn’t be opposed to keeping him if a cheap short term extension came with it.

 

I dunno what planet you think we live on to think Myers is going to warrant a 1st, but that’s not happening. In fact, probably should keep him away from any Schenn deal because he will bring the value down with his over bloated contract.

He's a rental.  If he plays this season on as a top four D, even on a team like ours, he's worth more then a 4-5th rounder.    Right now he's playing like a 4-5 million vet.    The fact he's a RHD raises his stock. 

[IBatch]

21 hours ago, -AJ- said:

I wouldn't say that Schenn and Tanev are at all the same level of player--I consider them similar strictly in the sense that I felt both guys were worth more to us than they would be in a trade. Tanev was obviously far superior and had some distinct playstyle differences too.

I'm with you.  Not sure how many more years Schenn's got in him,  but he for sure deserves a big fat raise.   

[Blue Jay 22]

11 minutes ago, IBatch said:

He's a rental.  If he plays this season on as a top four D, even on a team like ours, he's worth more then a 4-5th rounder.    Right now he's playing like a 4-5 million vet.    The fact he's a RHD raises his stock. 

4-5M vet is an over exaggeration and a matter of your subjective interpretation. If I want to play devil’s advocate, he’s a 33 year old rental averaging 17 mins a game that hasn’t completed a full season since 2016-2017. His early season is production is not his norm, but an outlier. 7pts in 17 games as a defensive guy is nice, but 26pts in 101 games tells a clearer picture, as does what it took to acquire him from Anaheim not too long ago. 
 

If the asking price is a 2nd round pick for Schenn, then he’s not going anywhere. Which is fine with me, I’m ok with play and veteran influence, but we have to be realistic.

 

 

[IBatch]

17 minutes ago, Blue Jay 22 said:

4-5M vet is an over exaggeration and a matter of your subjective interpretation. If I want to play devil’s advocate, he’s a 33 year old rental averaging 17 mins a game that hasn’t completed a full season since 2016-2017. His early season is production is not his norm, but an outlier. 7pts in 17 games as a defensive guy is nice, but 26pts in 101 games tells a clearer picture, as does what it took to acquire him from Anaheim not too long ago. 
 

If the asking price is a 2nd round pick for Schenn, then he’s not going anywhere. Which is fine with me, I’m ok with play and veteran influence, but we have to be realistic.

 

 

Right now is right now.   Every year guys that are almost done get swapped around for firsts and second rounders depending on the pedigree.   IF he keeps it up all year, yes i do believe someone will give up a second for him -- there are 150% more LHDs in this league and that bumps his value.   

 

Coleman got a first lol.  Foligno too.   It's not unreasonable to say Schenn has been one of our best D's this year.   And he fights.   Unlike most guys these days.  

 

Edit:  I also agree with AJ, his value is likely higher getting a fat raise (200% at least x 2) then trading even for a second.   That is unless we are ready to go full tank.   And even then a vet like him around versus a 50% chance at a guy who plays 100 games ... well then.  I expect Luke Schenn ends up with over 1000 career games played.  Your undervaluing what that is to the same degree i'm exaggerating.  

Edited November 16, 2022 by IBatch

[Blue Jay 22]

1 minute ago, IBatch said:

Right now is right now.   Every year guys that are almost done get swapped around for firsts and second rounders depending on the pedigree.   IF he keeps it up all year, yes i do believe someone will give up a second for him -- there are 150% more LHDs in this league and that bumps his value.   

 

Coleman got a first lol.  Foligno too.   It's not unreasonable to say Schenn has been one of our best D's this year.   And he fights.   Unlike most guys these days.  

Being “one of the Canucks best Dman this year” is not exactly something that should be put on resumes and boasted about. It’s not a high bar to clear and says more about the Canucks than Schenn.

 

Comparing him to Coleman or Foligno is silly considering all 3 are different players and different roles so that argument is obviously not good.

 

I would think management would be happy flipping him for a 4th or 5th…that’s great value and shrewd business considering we got him for a 7th just 2 years ago. But shrewd business and Canucks management haven’t been associated with each other in awhile, so I could definitely see them trying to haggle for a 2nd, only to lose him for nothing in FA, or worse, give him that “4-5M contract” evaluation that you think he’s playing like right now.

[IBatch]

8 minutes ago, Blue Jay 22 said:

Being “one of the Canucks best Dman this year” is not exactly something that should be put on resumes and boasted about. It’s not a high bar to clear and says more about the Canucks than Schenn.

 

Comparing him to Coleman or Foligno is silly considering all 3 are different players and different roles so that argument is obviously not good.

 

I would think management would be happy flipping him for a 4th or 5th…that’s great value and shrewd business considering we got him for a 7th just 2 years ago. But shrewd business and Canucks management haven’t been associated with each other in awhile, so I could definitely see them trying to haggle for a 2nd, only to lose him for nothing in FA, or worse, give him that “4-5M contract” evaluation that you think he’s playing like right now.

Lol.  Reading comprehension.  He's "playing like a 4-5 million dollar vet (RHD) right now ... isn't he's worth that in the future.   A 100-200% raise is 1.5 -2.25 About what he's likely going to get.   On the open market or from us.   

 

Ive watched hockey since the 80's and have seen all sorts of crazy.   What's really the difference between Foligno getting a first - and Schenn getting a second?  Or Coleman getting a first.   That's just recent.   And like i said, when it comes to these guys at his age, it's usually about the pedigree or what have you done for me lately.    What i'm expecting - he doesn't get traded and we re-sign him for Dermott's deal.   Market is the market, and his stock has only raised since we got him. 

Edited November 16, 2022 by IBatch

[Blue Jay 22]

1 minute ago, IBatch said:

Lol.  Reading comprehension.  He's "playing like a 4-5 million dollar vet (RHD) right now ... isn't he's worth that in the future.   A 200% raise is 1.5.   About what he's likely going to get.   On the open market or from us.   

 

Ive watched hockey since the 80's and have seen all sorts of crazy.   What's really the difference between Foligno getting a first - and Schenn getting a second?  Or Coleman getting a first.   That's just recent.   And like i said, when it comes to these guys at his age, it's usually about the pedigree or what have you done for me lately.    What i'm expecting - he doesn't get traded and we re-sign him for Dermott's deal.   Market is the market, and his stock has only raised since we got him. 

I don’t see what the issue is. We are in agreement, his value has risen we both identify…from a 7th to a 4th/5th 

[IBatch]

Just now, Blue Jay 22 said:

I don’t see what the issue is. We are in agreement, his value has risen we both identify…from a 7th to a 4th/5th 

Yes.   And a second is his peak.   I'd still re-sign him BTW.   He's not Willie Mitchell, but at the same time that was mistake.   Unless we go full-tank (which i'm also not expecting) he's not worth a second anyways.  50% chance the guy we draft plays more games then he does the first 1.25 years of his next two year contract with us at 1.5-2.25.   And QHs seems to like playing with him. 

[Bobby James]

They won't take OEL due to term. Meyers isn't great but Muzzin is hurt a lot, so maybe they would go for something like this: 

 

To TOR: 

Meyers

 

To VAN: 

Muzzin

2nd round pick

 

If not perhaps we can just move Schenn for a 2nd. He is cheap and a great defenseman. 2nd might be tough to pull for him though. I'd consider a 3rd and anything less I think isn't worth it and we should just hold onto him and then resign him for another year or two.