McBackup Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 1 hour ago, VancouverHabitant said: Let's not get caught up on words here (retool rebuild reset rewhatever), JR was clear that major surgery needs to happen. Moving out key pieces for younger players and draft picks is 95% of what you guys are asking for. No, this is the problem. He said he doesn’t want draft capital, he wants younger players that haven’t lived up to their ELCs elsewhere which is what Benning did with Baertschi, Granlund, Vey, Goldobin, etc. Further, you aren’t going to get good players on cost controlled contracts for our onerous ones, and if you’re moving out a core piece like Horvat in one of those deals it’s extremely unlikely if you are insisting on a return that will play immediately that they will replace the impact those core players left. You also don’t have the cap flexibility to make those moves because despite all your protestations at the cap problems hamstringing you, you go out and tie up 20% of the cap in 3 wingers who are different flavours of mediocre. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-23 Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 I want Rutherford to succeed here, just done with the talking now. Looking forward to TDL, this time it looks like trades are inevitable.. Also sounds like JR sees all the fan and media stuff. Wants to take on the challenge. I’m here for it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, J-23 said: Sounds like Rutherford is team tank for this year at least I’m still a little confused on the coaching situation..are we riding Bruce out till the end or not. The weird bit was his coming out and saying they want the first overall pick, we all know they're not making the playoffs but that was surprisingly candid considering how many teams are below them in the standings 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 7 minutes ago, Baggins said: Yes, the two mentioned are developed. Kind of my point. My question was how many years of "their career" would you like to waste waiting on hopes and dreams draft picks to be NHL ready ready and effective? That's why Rutherford said he was looking to trade for young NHL players rather than draft picks. They need guys to build around. The current team isn’t those guys. Until this team has the kinda defence that can stop a wave of evil, ‘we’ have no team to celebrate around. You wanna talk “how many years”? I’ve been waiting decades, and we got close a couple times. Coming close is like watching your girl screw another guy and driving her home hombre. Don’t tell me about guys who get you close. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesB Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 2 hours ago, Devron said: Absolutely. I do think ball was dropped in the summer regarding Horvat/Miller. But some people need to settle the kettle a bit and see how it plays out. Turns out it’s a sh!t show I’ll jump in too but they should at least have the deadline to make a couple promising moves. People are b!tching and complaining. Have we seen any other teams make significant moves during season this year. Anyone?? I don't think the main complaint is about not making in-season trades. Pretty much everyone on CDC understands that it is hard to make in-season hockey trades given the current cap situation. My complaints are: 1. Miller could have been traded for a first round pick, one good young D prospect (former 1st round pick), and one solid 3C (also a former first round), all young, all cheap, and all team-controlled into the future. That is three solid assets and increased cap space. Instead Miller was re-signed to mammoth long term deal that transforms him from an asset into a liability. (I heard an interesting discussion about whether Miller would picked up if he were put on waivers. That is the test of whether he is a liability or asset. One of the guys talking thought he would be picked up. The other thought he would clear. Both agreed it would be a close call. In short, his value is approximately zero and possibly negative. 2. The team has refused and continues to refuse to acquire draft picks. In fact they traded away a second round pick to clear a trivial amount of cap space.. But drat picks are the primary source of new asset value. 3. Contending teams are NOT going to trade away good young players for rentals. They of course want to keep good young players if the team is in a window of opportunity to make a deep playoff run. That strategy is not going to work. 4. Contending teams will trade picks for rentals because the cost is a few years off, when they probably won't be contenders anymore. There are no guarantees, but the likeliest way to build a contender is by relying primarily on the draft, supplemented by good development. "Hockey trades" and UFAs can help around the margins if executed well. Therefore my 4th complaint is that JR is not emphasized the draft more. 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-23 Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, Coconuts said: The weird bit was his coming out and saying they want the first overall pick, we all know they're not making the playoffs but that was surprisingly candid considering how many teams are below them in the standings He’s honest, actually like it, but wish it was more professional around Bruce. Sounds like he wants to bottom out, but makes some fair and obvious points as well. Demko is going to want to comeback asap and he is not going to tell the team not to work hard. For the most part sounds like he wants to do a short rebuild, maybe a year or two of high picks as they fix other parts of the team. He is calling it a re-tool which is fair, but that sounds like the direction to me. 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melbourne Canuck Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 Credit to JR for standing in and answering those questions. He showed gumption that Benning lacked. My concerns however is that he will repeat a lot of Benning’s errors. When he mentioned players from other teams of their ELC I have flashbacks of Vey, Baertschi, Grandlund etc. that all worked out well didn’t it? Major surgery is encouraging but we need to be open to building a stockpile of draft capital and using the development resources they’ve just employed. I have fears that we’re going to see the Benning plan again with JR & PA in charge instead of JB & JW. Time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timråfan Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 1 hour ago, iceman64 said: Are you even paying attention? You haven't read or watched the local media bullshi_ that's doing it and has been for awhile now but this week is ramped up so what do you expect? Half the CDC believes every bit of it, you can hardly blame it on those who were ok with Benning all you like but fact remains it's local media based, I.M. had that on his Twitter page for the last 2-3 weeks.. and all the other online hacks as well. A simple google of "canucks news" will prove my point.. it's been littered with JR and AL bashing and BB for Tochett.. Pay attention! Lmao! I don’t get much of local Canucks media bullshi in Timrå… Is it Bennings pals in media doing the bashing? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timråfan Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 1 hour ago, King Heffy said: Literally every decision they have made has been bad, and Rutherford openly proved himself to be a complete idiot by suggesting that buyouts were an option. This scumbag cannot be allowed to do the amount of damage to the franchise he suggested he will do this off-season, and really shouldn't be allowed to make any more decisions that impact the team. Why in holy hell would anyone consider allowing him to keep up this BS for longer? I disagree… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnAntoski Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 JR doing his best to change the title, on this REALLY bad movie by changing his word. Pls double down or even triple down cause until the endeavor ceases to be profitable, Francesco will not change direction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 8 minutes ago, Coconuts said: The weird bit was his coming out and saying they want the first overall pick, we all know they're not making the playoffs but that was surprisingly candid considering how many teams are below them in the standings Since the 2015 draft when they changed the rules only 4 teams who finished last won the draft lottery (50%) Two teams that finished 3rd from the bottom won, and one team 5th from the bottom. Then there was the 2020 pandemic draft that saw New York win. I think we have a legit shot of 4th or 5th if the right moves are made. We have the worst goaltending in the league and a defensive system that’s non existent. Not to mention a brutal schedule for the next month. That gives us a real shot at winning. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-23 Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 3 minutes ago, DeNiro said: Since the 2015 draft when they changed the rules only 4 teams who finished last won the draft lottery (50%) Two teams that finished 3rd from the bottom won, and one team 5th from the bottom. Then there was the 2020 pandemic draft that saw New York win. I think we have a legit shot of 4th or 5th if the right moves are made. We have the worst goaltending in the league and a defensive system that’s non existent. Not to mention a brutal schedule for the next month. That gives us a real shot at winning. Can move up 10 spots in the draft, new rules, I believe. Going to hang on to that as hope. Still want the best odds though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 Just now, J-23 said: Can move up 10 spots in the draft, new rules, I believe. Going to hang on to that as hope. Still want the best odds though. Well yea and if we end up 4th or 5th hope that teams ahead of us win. At 4th you get your pick of Carlsson or Michkov. Players I’ve heard could have gone 1st overall in other drafts they’re that good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-23 Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, DeNiro said: Well yea and if we end up 4th or 5th hope that teams ahead of us win. At 4th you get your pick of Carlsson or Michkov. Players I’ve heard could have gone 1st overall in other drafts they’re that good. The top 10 is stacked, Bedard, Fantilli and Carlsson will go top 3, then Michkov. Will Smith, Dvorasky and Yager are absolute studs as well. Besides, Michkov that is 6 centres I listed, with Bo likely gone, we need one of those guys to replace him with imo. Wouldn’t be surpassed if Michkov drops this draft cause of that KHL contract. If I am Bettman, rigging the lottery makes sense for the Ducks, Habs, Nucks and Hawks. Hopefully JR and Bettman have a good relationship. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuckfanforlife82 Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 (edited) I am at the point now where I don't care what they want to call it, just initiate some change already. It's the moves with Horvat, Kuzmenko and the buyouts that will say a lot about what this team will do. I hate the word retool. It just has bad vibes associated with it but he did say major surgery so that requires the core to be touched. I don't really understand when he said the pieces around it need to be changed when that's all they have been doing anyhow. Hello, that hasn't worked. Plan B. Move on but until some actual changes are made to the roster not just the coaching staff then they still are getting a bad grade because that's what they were supposed to fix. Stop telling us it's hard. We get it. Benning left you a mess but even a couple of huge buyouts initiate change. The Horvat trade will initiate change. Just as long as you aren't staying with the status quo fans will at least give you some props for doing something. Fans just want this team to be held accountable and he didn't come out and say what this core has produced is unacceptable. He said he believed in it but I don't know why. They have given you nothing besides pumping up their individual stats. I guess it all could be lip service so he can make trades with other teams and they can't hold It against him saying you said they are terrible. It's what makes sense. Holding his cards close to his chest. Anyways until they actually do something to the roster they haven't really chosen any direction. Talk is just that, talk. Edited January 17, 2023 by Canuckfanforlife82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RU SERIOUS Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 14 hours ago, King Heffy said: Still better than crippling the franchise for a decade because management is stupid enough to buy him out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MystifyNCrucify Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 Hahahahaha still “retooling”? “We need something to bash this nail into this hard surface. We’ve tried screwdrivers, a micrometer, a measuring tape, and a plunger. We will continue to try out various tools, even though we know that a hammer is the obvious choice and theres a risk of ruining the nail and/or surface.” I wouldnt be surprised if JR retired in the off season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RU SERIOUS Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 1 hour ago, DeNiro said: Since the 2015 draft when they changed the rules only 4 teams who finished last won the draft lottery (50%) Two teams that finished 3rd from the bottom won, and one team 5th from the bottom. Then there was the 2020 pandemic draft that saw New York win. I think we have a legit shot of 4th or 5th if the right moves are made. We have the worst goaltending in the league and a defensive system that’s non existent. Not to mention a brutal schedule for the next month. That gives us a real shot at winning. ...especially after Bo is traded away in the next week or two and then hopefully JR can find someone to dump BB6 and JTM off on to. Then we pretty well eliminate all scoring and guarantee a rapid decline into the cellar. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RU SERIOUS Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 3 hours ago, spur1 said: No plan B in goal. The real elephant in the room. Didn't JR say plan "B" was to not acquire draft picks - rather "left-Over" Misfits that no one wants on their team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MystifyNCrucify Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 1 hour ago, J-23 said: Can move up 10 spots in the draft, new rules, I believe. Going to hang on to that as hope. Still want the best odds though. You must be new here. Vancouver doesnt “move up” draft spots. They could lose every game in a season and still drop to third pick. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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