VegasCanuck Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 1 minute ago, Fanuck said: I feel like the guy saying - don't buy more house/car than you need and everyone around me is like: Meanwhile everyone on this site is like: "Be gone Voice of Reason, you're not welcome in these parts..." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold Drunken Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, CanucksJay said: You still need warm bodies So without OEL Myers Schenn We have a D unit of Hughes Dermott Bear Burroughs Stillman Juulsen? We're trying to retool not break everyone's spirits and cause permanent damage... Teams who are offloading and are "sellers" at the deadline aren't trying to get better this season, that doesn't even make sense and lacks logic. Sellers are acquiring assets and picks looking at next season. If a team is selling at the deadline they are missing the playoffs, so they are then making moves looking at the next season and beyond. That's how the league has worked for a long time. They will then fill the holes in the off season. People on CDC seem to not understand what selling at the deadline means, it means you're not getting better this season. It's quite simple. Edited January 26, 2023 by Harold Drunken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timberz21 Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 10 minutes ago, Harold Drunken said: Why would they need to find someone to fill his roster spot this year? If we are moving guys like OEL and others they aren't trying to get better or stay the same this year...they are looking at next and beyond. We can't retain just for this year. We are retaining on OEL for four years. And you actually need a body to replace him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksJay Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 4 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said: https://www.capfriendly.com/players/filip-johansson Was Minnesota's 1st round pick in 2018, but they were unable to sign him. Canucks did last summer. Looks like Minni went off the board and flopped. All indications were that they weren't happy with his progress and didn't offer him a contract. What makes you think he's NHL ready? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold Drunken Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 Just now, timberz21 said: We can't retain just for this year. We are retaining on OEL for four years. And you actually need a body to replace him. You're missing my point, but it's ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksJay Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 1 minute ago, Harold Drunken said: Teams who are offloading and are "sellers" at the deadline aren't trying to get better this season, that's doesn't even make sense and lacks logic. Sellers are acquiring assets and picks looking at next season. If a team is selling at the deadline they are missing the playoffs, so they are then making moves looking at the next season and beyond. That's how the league has worked for a long time. They will then fill he holes in the off season. People on CDC seem to not understand what selling at the deadline means, it means you're not getting better this season. It's quite simple. Lol i get it but getting crushed 10-1 every game is definitely not gonna help retain Petey or anyone from our core. That's what you'll get when you dress the D unit you are suggesting. You definitely aren't getting better this season or many more seasons... I guess you can stockpile high #1 draft picks but then what's the point of keeping Miller, Petey Hughes during that time? They'll all want out of this hell hole. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 (edited) I'd retain on OEL if Boston is willing to pick him up. Boston is the only other team he would waive for. They could have him on their 3rd pairing. With a $3 million retention we could take Matt Grzelcyk back in a trade. Boston would have the cap space after this year to keep OEL for 4 more years at $4.2 million. I'm sure he could help them in the playoffs this year. We could even make this a part of a Horvat trade, so Boston would be more inclined to do it. To Boston: Bo Horvat OEL ($3 million retention) To Vancouver: Fabian Lysell Trent Frederic Matt Grzelcyk Ryan Mast 2023 1st round pick Edited January 26, 2023 by Elias Pettersson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timberz21 Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 3 minutes ago, Harold Drunken said: You're missing my point, but it's ok. Clearly, but not sure you're getting mine either. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasCanuck Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 1 minute ago, CanucksJay said: Looks like Minni went off the board and flopped. All indications were that they weren't happy with his progress and didn't offer him a contract. What makes you think he's NHL ready? EVERYONE believes he's NHL ready. He's playing 1st pairing in the SHL, over 22 minutes per night and being relied on in all situations. Also, I could be wrong, but I think Jett Woo is closer than people think, I think they have been settling him into a stay at home defensive role and that he has a strong chance of being our 3rd pairing RD next season / 7th D. He was relied upon to be an offensive player in Junior, and I think it's taken some work for them to refine his role and get him to a place where he can be effective. I think they see him now as a possible young Luke Schenn type of player who will take care of his own end of the ice. Fans get concerned about point production, but it really depends what a guy is being groomed for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold Drunken Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 (edited) 11 minutes ago, CanucksJay said: Lol i get it but getting crushed 10-1 every game is definitely not gonna help retain Petey or anyone from our core. That's what you'll get when you dress the D unit you are suggesting. You definitely aren't getting better this season or many more seasons... I guess you can stockpile high #1 draft picks but then what's the point of keeping Miller, Petey Hughes during that time? They'll all want out of this hell hole. I get it, but it is what it is....bottom ranked teams do it every deadline and it's how the league works. It's the only way they rebuild the blueline....you have to move players out to bring others in, addition by subtraction. Getting "crushed 10-1" for 25 games is probably worth it (even know we know it wouldn't be that bad and would likely be goaltending aiding that" if they offload some heavy contracts and acquire picks and prospects. You have to start somewhere, re-tooling an entire blueline on the fly isn't going to work no matter how many times management says it will. Trying to rebuild a blueline while is progressively and exponentially gets better on an upward trajectory is wishful thinking. Edited January 26, 2023 by Harold Drunken 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyCuddles Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 Myers and Horvat make the most sense. Short term. Retaining on OEL us probably not in the cards. We'd have to retain at a minimum 1mil to make it moveable without costing us a 1st round pick. He has what, 4ish years left? Interesting to see what they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToTellTheTruth Posted January 26, 2023 Author Share Posted January 26, 2023 27 minutes ago, DrJockitch said: K’Andre Miller? That doesn’t look possible in any situation. He has been amazing this year. Dream come true but would never happen. Ya, mostly it was just going off last years rumours but that might make Schneider more available. 25 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said: It's not only that but management would basically be admitting they don't have a clue what they're doing to sign a guy for 7 years then trade him months later. Lamorello likes vets and cap certainty. That could be used as an reason for signing a contract that early. 20 minutes ago, Coconuts said: If they weren't willing to trade Schneider last season I don't see why they'd do it now. New York is strong down the right side but not quite as strong down the left, Miller also gives them size on the back end. As for Columbus. Sure, and he has higher pedigree. He's 6'3", having a great year offensively in the AHL, a recent 6OA pick who's also an RD. Columbus is further away than closer anyway, his being younger actually works for them. They can afford to be patient as they're still in a bottom feeder stage anyway. Bringing in a Horvat isn't going to seriously alter their trajectory regardless as to whether they need a center or not. Gaudreau and Laine being there or not. They'd probably move out Boqvist first, or a guy like Mateychuk or Ceulemans. I don't know, I think NYI would prefer to win sooner or later and I question whether they'd extend Bailey after this current deal anyway. His not having much term left is why I'd be targeting him in a Miller trade. It is time and the player coming back and time, they already have loads of top dmen for the next 8 years. Sure maybe it is just hope of a dream but quality for quality. They call Rutherford a big trader well Kekalainen makes him look cautious. Big deals don't scare him. But if not them there are other 20 yrs or so studs that team in the hunt would be willing to look at. 19 minutes ago, Angry Goose said: K’Andre for Garland? I almost spit out my coffee!! It was just going on past rumours that he might be available, there was Schneider as well and a media consensus that they want more scoring as well as NYI. 16 minutes ago, timberz21 said: problem with retaining is that we need to find a new player to fill that Roster spot. If we fill his spot with a 3-4M$ that similar to him in performances and we retain 2-3M$ on OEL, then we paying his replacement 5-7M$ anyways. Might as well just keep him a couple of years, then buy him out of retain the last 2 years. His buyout in 2025 doesn't look too bad. 4.2M - 4.2M - 1.5M - 1.5M. But retention could get a return, something, anything at all. 6 minutes ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said: No, sorry. I see that wasn’t very clear in my part. My understanding is the same as yours. I believe that teams are on the hook for whatever contracts they have on their books so for Miller they must retain an equal percentage of both deals (the current one and the extension). When teams trade a player, they can retain, or keep, some of the players' salary and cap hit. The team keeps a % of both the cap hit and salary for the remainder of the contract. Miller only has one contract right now, the one he is playing under, his next contract isn't in effect until September. So they can retain 50% of the current contract without any of the contract not "legal" or in effect yet. Essentially it isn't about any one particular trade just that trades can happen using retention. Retention adds value to trades. Retention doesn't require having empty cap space just not taking back more than retained. It can be done for 3 trades until those contracts expire. Canucks can retain up to $12.3 million IF they retained 12.3 million that would mean they opened up 12.3 million in empty cap space to be used for new players. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strawbone Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 1 hour ago, Ghostsof1915 said: Is Brock for a 3rd reasonable if the team has cap? I'd think so. I think it would benefit the team even if Boeser was traded for literally nothing. Is that even possible? Does at least a bag of pucks have to come back the other way? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToTellTheTruth Posted January 26, 2023 Author Share Posted January 26, 2023 2 minutes ago, Strawbone said: I think it would benefit the team even if Boeser was traded for literally nothing. Is that even possible? Does at least a bag of pucks have to come back the other way? Yes, they used to use "futures" but I think they eliminated that so usually a 7th rnd pick in some future year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 2 minutes ago, ToTellTheTruth said: Yes, they used to use "futures" but I think they eliminated that so usually a 7th rnd pick in some future year Future Considerations still gets around the league though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksJay Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 13 minutes ago, Harold Drunken said: I get it, but it is what it is....bottom ranked teams do it every deadline and it's how the league works. It's the only way they rebuild the blueline....you have to move players out to bring others in, addition by subtraction. Getting "crushed 10-1" for 25 games is probably worth it (even know we know it wouldn't be that bad and would likely be goaltending aiding that" if they offload some heavy contracts and acquire picks and prospects. You have to start somewhere, re-tooling an entire blueline on the fly isn't going to work no matter how many times management says it will. Trying to rebuild a blueline while is progressively and exponentially gets better on an upward trajectory is wishful thinking. Ok we got the moving ppl out part. How do you bring in quality top 4 blue line players when you're essentially trading /giving away our garbage (a little harsh) and have no assets to work with to bring in new talent? If it's getting crushed 25 games. Perfect I'm sold. 25 games is nothing. How do you fix this after 25 games though? How is it addition by subtraction? OEL and Myers aren't playing up to their respective cap hits. But they are far better than anyone else on our defence (minus Hughes) How do you get rid of those 2 and get better d men? Getting quality top 4 D men isn't easy or we would have done it by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToTellTheTruth Posted January 26, 2023 Author Share Posted January 26, 2023 21 minutes ago, N7Nucks said: Myers and Horvat make the most sense. Short term. Retaining on OEL us probably not in the cards. We'd have to retain at a minimum 1mil to make it moveable without costing us a 1st round pick. He has what, 4ish years left? Interesting to see what they do. Who replaces Myers? Especially after Schenn is traded? WHO? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rychicken Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 18 minutes ago, Strawbone said: I think it would benefit the team even if Boeser was traded for literally nothing. Is that even possible? Does at least a bag of pucks have to come back the other way? Brock to Minnesota for a brochure/map of the Mall of America?? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold Drunken Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, CanucksJay said: Ok we got the moving ppl out part. How do you bring in quality top 4 blue line players when you're essentially trading /giving away our garbage (a little harsh) and have no assets to work with to bring in new talent? If it's getting crushed 25 games. Perfect I'm sold. 25 games is nothing. How do you fix this after 25 games though? How is it addition by subtraction? OEL and Myers aren't playing up to their respective cap hits. But they are far better than anyone else on our defence (minus Hughes) How do you get rid of those 2 and get better d men? Getting quality top 4 D men isn't easy or we would have done it by now. I said 25 games because I guessed that's approx. the amount of games after the trade deadline. If you move an OEL or Myers or both....you are only really having to live without a direct replacement until the end of the season...you would then bring up young guys or the Burroughs and Stillmans of the world until seasons end...it really doesn't matter at that point.. Then, you have an offseason to work on the back end providing you have some cap space now and maybe got some assets back from other trades. My main point is and was if we are moving guys at the deadline, this year doesn't matter. You start fixing in the off season and looking at next year, starts with the draft and free agency. None of this happens without cap space to do so. Edited January 26, 2023 by Harold Drunken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyCuddles Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 3 minutes ago, ToTellTheTruth said: Who replaces Myers? Especially after Schenn is traded? WHO? A toaster for all I care. Just get the goof off the team. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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