[Trade] Canucks trade Bo Horvat to Islanders for Anthony Beauvillier, Aatu Raty, 2023 1st-round draft pick

[EdgarM]

22 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

The '94 team was relatively healthy. The walking wounded on the 2011 team included Hank, Kes, Ehrhoff, Bieksa and Raymond. They were playing without their top LD and their best faceoff guy.....

 

Meanwhile they were facing a goaltender with .115 GAA and a .967 SV% ...... In comparison, Mike Richter threw up a decent .213 GAA and a respectable SV% of .911

 

The '94 Canucks were a good team that got hot at the right time and went on a deep run. The 2011 Canucks were a great team that were too beat up to close the deal. Breaking it down to "This game 7 was closer than that game 7" is a poor way to compare the two teams, IMHO....

Relatively healthy? Linden had broken ribs and still managed to score 2 goals in that game. The 2011 team barely made it through the first round! 

We were up 2 to zip in that series and having great players such as Lui, Hank and Daniel? I expected a lot more then what they gave us in those last 5 games. We got nothing from them.

[Coconuts]

30 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

The '94 team was relatively healthy. The walking wounded on the 2011 team included Hank, Kes, Ehrhoff, Bieksa and Raymond. They were playing without their top LD and their best faceoff guy.....

 

Meanwhile they were facing a goaltender with .115 GAA and a .967 SV% ...... In comparison, Mike Richter threw up a decent .213 GAA and a respectable SV% of .911

 

The '94 Canucks were a good team that got hot at the right time and went on a deep run. The 2011 Canucks were a great team that were too beat up to close the deal. Breaking it down to "This game 7 was closer than that game 7" is a poor way to compare the two teams, IMHO....

Agreed. By the time the 2011 team got to the final it was more of a stumble than a run. Injuries did them in, and that injury list post-cup run was extensive if I'm remembering correctly. 

 

Thomas putting on one of the best playoff goaltending performances in like.. forever certainly didn't help. 

Edited February 1, 2023 by Coconuts

[Coconuts]

7 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

I don't know....As much as I like Schenn, he was part of the culture. My guess is that a 2nd will get it done. Maybe a 3rd.

 

If management likes him that much, they can always take a run at signing him again in the off season.

A 2nd should absolutely get it done. A 3rd, perhaps, probably. 

 

Schenn isn't a top 4D on a team with a defense that's actually good. Likely more a 6-7. Truculence or not. And I like Schenn. 

[Boudrias]

6 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

Relatively healthy? Linden had broken ribs and still managed to score 2 goals in that game. The 2011 team barely made it through the first round! 

We were up 2 to zip in that series and having great players such as Lui, Hank and Daniel? I expected a lot more then what they gave us in those last 5 games. We got nothing from them.

Linden was a god in the '94 playoffs. Best Canucks ever, hands down. 

[Isam]

Should mention that I was talking about rinbacher in my previous post

[EdgarM]

2 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

Agreed. By the time the 2011 team got to the final it was more of a stumble than a run. Injuries did them in, and that injury list post-cup run was extensive if I'm remembering correctly. 

 

Thomas putting on one of the best playoff goaltending performances in like.. forever certainly didn't help. 

They stumbled playing Chicago in the first round! 

Injuries or not, the best players were still on the ice and did nothing. Linden on the other hand, managed to score 2 goals, broken ribs and all. 

The main theme for the past couple of decades? EXCUSES! 

Warriors are pretty much non-existent now a days its now, how much am I going to get PAID!? 

Gone are the days of players such as Iginla and Bourque moving to teams, JUST TO WIN A CUP! Not money.

[EdgarM]

5 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

A 2nd should absolutely get it done. A 3rd, perhaps, probably. 

 

Schenn isn't a top 4D on a team with a defense that's actually good. Likely more a 6-7. Truculence or not. And I like Schenn. 

Are we still trying to build that 2011 team over again? 

[EdgarM]

6 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

Linden was a god in the '94 playoffs. Best Canucks ever, hands down. 

There were so many Heroes on that team, and we are not even mentioning Bure yet. 

[RWJC]

19 minutes ago, MaxVerstappen33 said:

Brain Lawton said on the Bob Mccowen podcast that Newport was asking for 9 million for Bo Horvat. 

I doubt that. 
He’ll probably get 7.75-8 per with a nice signing bonus though 

[Coconuts]

3 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

They stumbled playing Chicago in the first round! 

Injuries or not, the best players were still on the ice and did nothing. Linden on the other hand, managed to score 2 goals, broken ribs and all. 

The main theme for the past couple of decades? EXCUSES! 

Warriors are pretty much non-existent now a days its now, how much am I going to get PAID!? 

Gone are the days of players such as Iginla and Bourque moving to teams, JUST TO WIN A CUP! Not money.

 

2 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

Are we still trying to build that 2011 team over again? 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

10 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

Relatively healthy? Linden had broken ribs and still managed to score 2 goals in that game. The 2011 team barely made it through the first round! 

We were up 2 to zip in that series and having great players such as Lui, Hank and Daniel? I expected a lot more then what they gave us in those last 5 games. We got nothing from them.

To be fair Luongo did get two shutouts that one series.  Did he crap the bed badly at home?  Sure, but he only had goal support of like 6 goals in the whole series.  I'd argue he would've gotten serious from consideration for the Conn Smythe had we won just one more game.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

Just now, Coconuts said:

 

**** the Bruins.  I think we can all get behind that.

[aliboy]

9 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

To be fair Luongo did get two shutouts that one series.  Did he crap the bed badly at home?  Sure, but he only had goal support of like 6 goals in the whole series.  I'd argue he would've gotten serious from consideration for the Conn Smythe had we won just one more game.

To be fair, I doubt anyone in the history of hockey ever did as much to motivate the opposition, he may as well have been on the Bruins payroll. 

[JeremyCuddles]

Old heads prefer the old team, new heads like the newer team. Water is wet, Marchand is a rat. Why are we debating the days gone by again? Y'all have the same opinion about it 10 years ago that you do now. Lu sucks, Sedins are bad leaders. Linden is my dad. He's the best. Can we talk about how the top 12 protected Isles 1st round pick is worse than an unprotected Carolina pick again? Or at the very least how Raty has the chin of a greek god? He also has underrated flow. I wanna see him next to Boeser. Our play looks like sh*t but our players are kinda cute

[EdgarM]

17 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

**** the Bruins.  I think we can all get behind that.

I agree, now can someone level that Rat Marchand !!!!!! kind of like Myers did to Duncan Keith. 

[Dazzle]

54 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

They stumbled playing Chicago in the first round! 

Injuries or not, the best players were still on the ice and did nothing. Linden on the other hand, managed to score 2 goals, broken ribs and all. 

The main theme for the past couple of decades? EXCUSES! 

Warriors are pretty much non-existent now a days its now, how much am I going to get PAID!? 

Gone are the days of players such as Iginla and Bourque moving to teams, JUST TO WIN A CUP! Not money.

Mikheyev played hurt this season, according to the reports. He had some tear at the beginning of the season and played anyway. Now he needs surgery for that.

 

https://canucksarmy.com/news/how-ilya-mikheyev-played-torn-acl

[EdgarM]

8 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

Mikheyev played hurt this season, according to the reports. He had some tear at the beginning of the season and played anyway. Now he needs surgery for that.

 

https://canucksarmy.com/news/how-ilya-mikheyev-played-torn-acl

Yep, and he happens to be part of the new culture being implemented by the new management. The softies are still being weeded out. 

Again, we are NOT following the 2011 teams recipe for success, finally! 

[Baggins]

2 hours ago, Bad_BOI_pete said:

they were not into the body... most people on youtube agree with me... i took the time to slow and pause the video watching it frame by frame... in each instance the head was the primary point of contact... Kariya took a elbow to the jaw, and horton a shoulder to the head...

 

and as for the rules... you might want to actually read them... you are wrong...

 

48.1 Illegal Check to the Head – A hit resulting in contact with an opponent’s head where the head was the main point of contact and such contact to the head was avoidable is not permitted. In determining whether contact with an opponent's head was avoidable, the circumstances of the hit including the following shall be considered:

(i) Whether the player attempted to hit squarely through the opponent’s body and the head was not "picked" as a result of poor timing, poor angle of approach, or unnecessary extension of the body upward or outward.

(ii) Whether the opponent put himself in a vulnerable position by assuming a posture that made head contact on an otherwise full body check unavoidable.

(iii) Whether the opponent materially changed the position of his body or head immediately prior to or simultaneously with the hit in a way that significantly contributed to the head contact.

 

as the main point of contact was the head and avoidable, these were headshots and for rome he had unnecessary upward and extension to the head

I'll take the leagues opinion on rules over fans. Fans tend to side with their favorite player regardless and against players they don't like even when legal. Many here argue Rome was innocent. He wasn't as it was a late hit. Both of the hits you are arguing about fall within the rules as written because both were 'into the body' rendering head contact incidental. Both were stopped in their tracks which a good indicator it was into the body. Watch the Player Safety video on hard legal checks. The most obvious tells of an illegal check is the the player being hit spins around and continues forward and the hitting player continues forward on his path. There's examples in the video of that and also legal checks where the head is the principle point of contact. 

 

 

 

[RUPERTKBD]

1 hour ago, EdgarM said:

Relatively healthy? Linden had broken ribs and still managed to score 2 goals in that game. The 2011 team barely made it through the first round! 

We were up 2 to zip in that series and having great players such as Lui, Hank and Daniel? I expected a lot more then what they gave us in those last 5 games. We got nothing from them.

Yes. One guy with cracked ribs doesn't really compare to 4/5 members of the power play being injured.

 

Also you can skate with frozen ribs. Kesler was playing with a torn groin.

[RUPERTKBD]

1 hour ago, Coconuts said:

Agreed. By the time the 2011 team got to the final it was more of a stumble than a run. Injuries did them in, and that injury list post-cup run was extensive if I'm remembering correctly. 

 

Thomas putting on one of the best playoff goaltending performances in like.. forever certainly didn't help. 

I'm constantly surprised who don't seem to grasp those rather simple facts. I think it stems from viewing the two teams through the lens of an underdog team, that got hot at the right time and exceeded expectations....and a dominant team that failed to meet expectations.

 

You can see right in this very debate.....people are willing to cite the '94 injury situation, but it gets sloughed off for the 2011 squad, even though it was far worse...