[Trade] Red Wings trade Filip Hronek, 2023 4th-round pick to Canucks for conditional 2023 1st-round pick (NYI), 2023 2nd-round pick

[mordekai]

10 minutes ago, Chinook said:

Drance is a fool, how they let him on the radio all day long is beyond me , we need 1040 back… besides the morning show the rest sucks, sorry to get off topic

I am seeing him less on the Canucks tv broadcast

in fact haven’t seen him for a while Thank God

soon he will be fired by SN and be banned by Canucks and he can rage even more with his buddy jpat sekeres 

 

[-DLC-]

7 minutes ago, MeanSeanBean said:

Your opinion, your entitled to it. I'm not a Drance fan, but I think it's a good analogy.  The flexibility doesn't disappear after you draft a player, but it changes. Now you have that asset more akin to a gift card. If you draft a D that player is always a D. So you can use that player on the team, or trade that player to a team that needs a D. The pick can be anything. You could trade it for a forward, or a D, or pick a player, or use it to acquire cap space.

 

I would love this trade if the Canucks were good. If we were in the race for the playoffs this year, but missing that one big part that could really get this train moving, I'd be fine with trading picks. But this franchise time and time has traded picks when we weren't good, that the player acquired only made us middle of the pack at best. I don't see this trade being any different. Fantastic player, we're gonna love having him on the team. We're still not anywhere close to competing for a cup next year. Our cap and prospect pool reflects a team at the top of the league, not the bottom. That's why these moves scare people. 

But if they're a dud...they're not so easy to regift.

[MeanSeanBean]

Just now, -DLC- said:

But if they're a dud...they're not so easy to regift.

Sure, that's the risk of drafting. The whole point is the flexibility of having cash in hand is much more valuable for the Canucks stage of this re...whatever it is.

 

If the Canucks somehow miraculously are in cup contention next year I will gladly admit I was wrong and eat my words. But quite frankly when you take a look around at the quality of teams that are competing for a cup, the Canucks are no where even remotely close, in my eyes. Not only that, it's becoming increasingly difficult for me to invision a scenario that gets us to where we need to be in the next few years.  

[steviewonder20]

2 hours ago, Dixon Ward said: I respect Yzerman, but he has been there 4 years now and is still tearing it down.  He may be successful, but the odds are against him.  If he is, it will be in 4- 6 years.  That's 8-10 years of trading good players away in hopes of some draft picks turning out.  

 

And our “retooling on the fly” has gone on for a decade and here’s where we are at: 27th out of 32 teams, one of the worst prospect pools in the NHL, and over the cap when Miller’s new contract kicks in.

[MaxVerstappen33]

28 minutes ago, Trebreh said:

I look at it this way, if we had offered Bo (pending UFA) to Detroit for a recently turned 25 yr old and cost controlled top 4 RHD, those same people criticizing this deal would say we would have to add. 

 

Yeah. It's not just our fans and media who think we allegedly overpaid. I think what is tainting the deal is everyones belief that the Canucks should be rebuilding. That might be true but it doesn't change the value of the pieces. 

 

If any other team and not the Canucks doing this deal , nobody would be calling it an overpay.

[steviewonder20]

1 hour ago, MaxVerstappen33 said:

Why didn't Detroit ask for Rathbone too? Rutherford would have probably given him up. Maybe they could get him going. 

I think Rathbone is bf with Aidan McDonough and keeping him may make it more likely Aidan signs with us.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, steviewonder20 said:

 

And our “retooling on the fly” has gone on for a decade and here’s where we are at: 27th out of 32 teams, one of the worst prospect pools in the NHL, and over the cap when Miller’s new contract kicks in.

We have a franchise goalie. An elite #1 D. An elite 200 foot #1 C. We have Miller, who is a ppg centre that plays heavy. We just added an elite, right shot #3 D. That’s an excellent core to continue to build around, especially consider how young they are (sans Miller, who isn’t exactly old.) 

The future will be very good providing this management continues to make the smart play. 

[Alflives]

Just now, MaxVerstappen33 said:

Yeah. It's not just our fans and media who think we allegedly overpaid. I think what is tainting the deal is everyones belief that the Canucks should be rebuilding. That might be true but it doesn't change the value of the pieces. 

 

If any other team and not the Canucks doing this deal , nobody would be calling it an overpay.

Lou Lam paid 13OA for Romonov, who isn’t nearly as a good a player as Hronek. 

[steviewonder20]

2 hours ago, Dixon Ward said:

I am happy with the Hronek trade.  Of course time will tell with every trade.  There are 3 reasons for my happiness.

 

1.  Despite the media and many on cdc, the Canucks have some world class players in all the right positions.  We have 2 top 20 centers, 1 top 10 dman, and 1 top 10 goalie.  We also have a strong supporting cast of forwards with Kuz, Mikhyev, Boeser, Garland, etc. so scoring is not an issue.  What we lack is top 4 defensemen.  OEL can be a 3-4 guy still, but needs to change it up a bit.  So we need at least 2 dmen.  We just go 1.  

2.  Draft picks and tear downs rarely work as many teams do them and rarely win the Stanley Cup.  I respect Yzerman, but he has been there 4 years now and is still tearing it down.  He may be successful, but the odds are against him.  If he is, it will be in 4- 6 years.  That's 8-10 years of trading good players away in hopes of some draft picks turning out.  I did a deep dive into the 2018 draft for defensemen:

Dmen taken in Rounds 1 and 2: 27

Dmen who play top pairing this season: 5

Dmen who play 2nd pairing this season: 6

Dmen who have played more than 50 games 5 years after being drafted: 14

 

So the 1st and 2nd we traded away have a 5 out of 27 chance of producing us a top 5 defenseman.  2 of those are Dahlin and Hughes.  So outside the top 10 you have a 3/25 chance of getting a top pairing dman.  The kicker is that only 1 of those, Noah Dobson, is Right handed.

 

3. After seeing the results of #2 I looked at Dobson as a comparison.  I think we can all say that we would have done backflips if the same trade was for Dobson.  So lets compare the 2:

 

Dobson: 23yrs old, 4mil/season, 36 pts, -3, 20:48TOI, PP time 208 min, PPP 16, SH time 31 min, Hits 53, Blocks per game 4.23

 

Hronek: 25yrs old, 4.125mil/season, 38 pts, +8, 21:32TOI, PP time 144 min, PPP 16, SH time 97 min, Hits 97, Blocks per game 2.5

 

They are similar players but Hronek wins every category other than Dobson is 2 years younger, cost 125k less, and blocks more shots.  

 

1 very important factor is NYI wouldn't have made this trade, because they think Dobson is too valuable.

And our approach has worked so well? A decade of retooling on the fly and we are 27th out of 32 teams, have one of the worst prospect pools in the NHL and will be over the cap when Miller’s new contract kicks in on July 1st barring any future trades. 

[High and Inside]

What message does this send to our scouts? The fact that the general manager has no faith that we can't get a better player then Hronek with the a top 15 pick and a top 40 pick really says something.  Aside from scouting I think under Allvin the development side of the organization has lots of upside. The Sedins seem to be doing some great work in Abby. I think for the Canucks now is the time to prioritize getting elite talent out of junior where we can structure their game the way we want to play. 

 

These quick fixes just mean more mediocrity.  

[cripplereh]

Off season after Myers gets his signing bonus we pay 1 mill and most teams would take him as he will be paid nothing.

 

We get cap space and a higher pick.Only thing he will cost will be against the cap not money out of pocket. 

 

Miller was close to being traded but again can in the off season.Same with BB a mill retained and guess what more cap space.

[cripplereh]

3 minutes ago, High and Inside said:

What message does this send to our scouts? The fact that the general manager has no faith that we can't get a better player then Hronek with the a top 15 pick and a top 40 pick really says something.  Aside from scouting I think under Allvin the development side of the organization has lots of upside. The Sedins seem to be doing some great work in Abby. I think for the Canucks now is the time to prioritize getting elite talent out of junior where we can structure their game the way we want to play. 

 

These quick fixes just mean more mediocrity.  

We might and then have another player as good or better with three years elc with our first. 

 

 

Makes tons of sense why we made this trade as a top ten puck there should be a good RHD or C at that spot that might be playing next year   

 

I really think Livingstone wants to be here and there's another good RHD. 

 

This team needed to be shuffled and now that it has why are people upset? 

 

We are better off and only going to take another step thus off season.

[Timråfan]

39 minutes ago, ToTellTheTruth said:

Hronek is good because they say he is, but who watched him? Why are Detroit fans glad he is gone or not worried at all? They think Yzerman rapped Allvin, the fans. They watched al the time and mostly all think he was making more and more mistakes and counting on his d partners to bail him out. There is relief there now because the rookie DRAFT PICK can get more ice time now and they are rebuilding and they are ahead of the Canucks playing in a much, much harder division.

 

 

For me it looks line the thinkers of the fans think otherwise.

Another views: My money says you will start bitching about the lack of right-handed defensemen in the organization before the season is over...

 

They seem to lack a Petey or a Hughes…

Lol try to find any posts of mine complaining about defensemen. We need to stock up with as much draft picks as possible and pray to get at least ONE offensive game changer. We currently have zero.

 

Part of me felt like Hronek was really never Yzerman’s preferred type of player, and I don’t necessarily hate cashing in on a strong year. 

On the other hand, experienced posters should know that a mid first or an early second can evaporate into nothing very easily, and we’ve spent far more on players that ended up much worse than Hronek. 

Curious to see what follows. I will miss Hronek, regardless of value. And the team will certainly miss his production.

 

Hronek for what will likely be a single mid-round 1st and 2nd. A 25 year old 50 point defenseman that is under a fairly cheap contract for like 3 more years. 

Unless Yzerman is pulling in Chychrun or Gostisbehere, I don't understand this move. To me it reeks of saving money

 

 

[Timråfan]

Islanders making sure the Wings don’t get any high pick in 2024.

[Alflives]

13 minutes ago, High and Inside said:

What message does this send to our scouts? The fact that the general manager has no faith that we can't get a better player then Hronek with the a top 15 pick and a top 40 pick really says something.  Aside from scouting I think under Allvin the development side of the organization has lots of upside. The Sedins seem to be doing some great work in Abby. I think for the Canucks now is the time to prioritize getting elite talent out of junior where we can structure their game the way we want to play. 

 

These quick fixes just mean more mediocrity.  

Hronek is a heck of a good player. The odds of getting a right shot D, as good as him with pick 17-22 (who will carry our second pair next season) is zero. The odds of finding that guy with that pick to develop into a Hronek level player in 5 years is close to zero. This was a great trade for us. We could have waited until the draft, but then there would be more teams bidding and the cost goes way up. These level of D (right shot, puck mover, point producer, defensively sound, 25, cost controlled at a great cap) very rarely come available. Great job by Allvin. 

[Dixon Ward]

1 minute ago, steviewonder20 said:

And our approach has worked so well? A decade of retooling on the fly and we are 27th out of 32 teams, have one of the worst prospect pools in the NHL and will be over the cap when Miller’s new contract kicks in on July 1st barring any future trades. 

Only 1 team wins the Stanley Cup.  29 need work.  If Demko played like Demko and didn't get injured,  and If OEL and Myers played like last year instead of falling apart, we would be much higher in the standings.

 

I don't agree that our prospect pool is bad.  Raty, Kravtsov,  Klimovich, Johansson, Lekkerimaki,  Silovs, DPETEY,  Hoglander will all play in the NHL, I think.

 

I am a Canucks fan, which forces me to be either an optimist or miserable.  

[Alflives]

7 minutes ago, Timråfan said:

For me it looks line the thinkers of the fans think otherwise.

Another views: My money says you will start bitching about the lack of right-handed defensemen in the organization before the season is over...

 

They seem to lack a Petey or a Hughes…

Lol try to find any posts of mine complaining about defensemen. We need to stock up with as much draft picks as possible and pray to get at least ONE offensive game changer. We currently have zero.

 

Part of me felt like Hronek was really never Yzerman’s preferred type of player, and I don’t necessarily hate cashing in on a strong year. 

On the other hand, experienced posters should know that a mid first or an early second can evaporate into nothing very easily, and we’ve spent far more on players that ended up much worse than Hronek. 

Curious to see what follows. I will miss Hronek, regardless of value. And the team will certainly miss his production.

 

Hronek for what will likely be a single mid-round 1st and 2nd. A 25 year old 50 point defenseman that is under a fairly cheap contract for like 3 more years. 

Unless Yzerman is pulling in Chychrun or Gostisbehere, I don't understand this move. To me it reeks of saving money

 

 

And the thing about a guy like Chychrun is he’s not a play driver. Hronek is a much better all around D man. Hronek will carry a top or second pair. Second for us. Chychrun will be an excellent compliment to a top or second pair. He’s limited in his skills. 

[wai_lai416]

28 minutes ago, cripplereh said:

Off season after Myers gets his signing bonus we pay 1 mill and most teams would take him as he will be paid nothing.

 

We get cap space and a higher pick.Only thing he will cost will be against the cap not money out of pocket. 

 

Miller was close to being traded but again can in the off season.Same with BB a mill retained and guess what more cap space.

i dunno why you guys keep thinking most team would gladly take myers after his signing bonus.. why would "MOST TEAM" take him when literally most team including the bottom feeders montreal arizona columbus are all at or near the cap floor without a full roster? the only exception really is just anaheim and chicago.. which could very well be on myers list of no trades.. why would most team take myers to add to their cap when they don't need to and give you free cap space and a higher pick?? do you guys not look at the cap situation around the league?? only teams that need to reach the cap floor would be interested.. there's literally just a couple teams that ain't at cap floor right now after all the contract expires this year.. so where do you get the "most team" would take him from? literally more than 90% of the league would not take him for free as they don't need his "cap" to reach floor..

[cripplereh]

1 minute ago, wai_lai416 said:

i dunno why you guys keep thinking most team would gladly take myers after his signing bonus.. why would "MOST TEAM" take him when literally most team including the bottom feeders montreal arizona columbus are all at or near the cap floor without a full roster? the only exception really is just anaheim and chicago.. which could very well be on myers list of no trades.. why would most team take myers to add to their cap when they don't need to and give you free cap space and a higher pick?? do you guys not look at the cap situation around the league?? only teams that need to reach the cap floor would be interested.. there's literally just a couple teams that ain't at cap floor right now after all the contract expires this year.. so where do you get the "most team" would take him from? literally more than 90% of the league would not take him for free as they don't need his "cap" to reach floor..

Look at the minutes he plays.Would not cost them money.He is better then most give him credit for.After the few ufa's rhd go Myers will be in demand. 

 

Where can you get an NHL D man for under 5 mill that can play over 20 minutes a night .

 

Right now RHD are the hardest to get in the NHL so yes most teams would see that and try and get him.

[RUPERTKBD]

4 hours ago, Darius said:

I can see the merits of “tanking” and accumulating picks which turn into potentially good players, It looks like a great strategy that has worked for some teams.

 

On the other hand… were the 94 and 2011 teams built using that method? Two of the most successful teams in franchise history- came within a whiff of the cup.  I can only imagine what guys like Drance would have been saying about the 94 team … well we did have guys like Gallagher and McRae.

 

Those teams had a small number of key players that were drafted by the team. The rest of the rosters were built through trades and signings and developing some  players in lower leagues.

 

I don’t understand where or exactly when this obsession with draft picks started. I’ll even concede that the game seemed more enjoyable to me years ago when I hardly knew the salaries because they were not published.  

i get that the team looks like it’s in trouble right now. They are basically capped out and need multiple changes.  Let’s wait and see what they do between the end of the season and training camp. It’s not like they have shown that they are unwilling to make a lot of moves. 
 

I’m also interested to see how this group develops its players.  It’s a good sign imho that they are letting hogs simmer in the ahl and the coach there is implementing systems that help players transition to the nhl - something Tocchet has mentioned. 

The '94 team was a middle of the pack regular season team that caught fire at the right time...but the two biggest pieces were their captain, who was drafted 2nd overall and a guy drafted in the late rounds whom every other GM thought was ineligible....there were some good trades and signings that pushed them over the top, but it was hardly a dominant team...

 

The 2011 team, I'd argue was definitely built through the draft. The 2nd and 3rd overall picks in the '99 draft went on to become the two greatest players in team history. Over a decade later, they were the best players on the best team in the league.

 

The #2 center on that team turned out to be the best defensive center the team has ever had. (and it's only legitimate contender for the Selke to date) He was drafted with the #23 pick....

 

The 3rd major piece of that team was the goaltender, who was acquired via trade....however, he was traded for roster players, not futures....