[PGT] Trade Day Edition

[spook007]

1 minute ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

But, but, but ... they WILL stay!

They may now

 

[wallstreetamigo]

42 minutes ago, -DLC- said:

I wish people put more stock into this. It's not how WE feel...Petey and Quinn matter (most). I'm sure management has factored that in, even if some here don't.

 

The people who count have voices in all of this (too).

 

Preach it, Quinn.

 

 

No player wants to have a long painful rebuild. Allowing a couple of players to determine which direction you go is stupid though. Same as it was when they tried to prop up the team for the Sedins.

 

You don’t continue the same direction when it hasn’t worked for 10 years. That’s just insanity. 
 

I laugh at anyone (including Hughes) who says with a straight face this roster is anywhere close to being competitive. He of course has to say that but I doubt it’s how he really feels. 

[spook007]

7 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

No player wants to have a long painful rebuild. Allowing a couple of players to determine which direction you go is stupid though. Same as it was when they tried to prop up the team for the Sedins.

 

You don’t continue the same direction when it hasn’t worked for 10 years. That’s just insanity. 
 

I laugh at anyone (including Hughes) who says with a straight face this roster is anywhere close to being competitive. He of course has to say that but I doubt it’s how he really feels. 

A couple of players? 

Its potentially the best forward and D-man to ever play for Canucks (or definitely in the conversation), so to say a couple of players is maybe undervalue them slightly.

 

The way they say it, if we go full rebuild, we may as well trade them both and accelerate the rebuild...

 

How about we keep them happy and see what happens over the next 2-3 years, if it still the same, strip it down...

[Boudrias]

7 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

No player wants to have a long painful rebuild. Allowing a couple of players to determine which direction you go is stupid though. Same as it was when they tried to prop up the team for the Sedins.

 

You don’t continue the same direction when it hasn’t worked for 10 years. That’s just insanity. 
 

I laugh at anyone (including Hughes) who says with a straight face this roster is anywhere close to being competitive. He of course has to say that but I doubt it’s how he really feels. 

Agreed that no player can determine the direction a team has to take to compete for a Cup. Right now I would think there is an alignment between the team and Petey and Hughes. They know it is their turn to lead a NHL team. They have seen what the NHL can throw at them on and off the ice. They are now playing for a coach who has a set plan. They have just watched their GM make trades to strengthen their team. They know he isn’t finished. I think they are probably pretty excited. That said they saw a long time captain moved out who didn’t fit anymore. Lots of lessons happening this year.

[sxqhfeh]

Look at Tampa (who Allvin models this team after)

From 2008 - 2014 they drafted these players:

2007 Killorn 3rd round, 77th

2008 Stamkos 1st overall

2009 Hedman 2nd overall

2011 Kucherov 2nd round, 58th

2012 Vasileskiy 19th overall

2014 Point 3rd round, 79th

2015 Cirelli 3rd round, 72nd

Eight years of consistent finds in the draft to build a core that they’ve continued to roll with for the following eight years, moving picks for depth complementary players and consistently moving on from mid-tier players that demanded too large of contracts. It’s a fantastic model but one that can’t be replicated unless your top guys are patient enough to let the process play out.

Hughes and Pettersson clearly aren’t like Stamkos and Kucherov no matter how badly Rutherford and Allvin want them to be.

Blow it the f•ck up and build it properly. But as people said it’s just pissing in the wind with this team.

[IBatch]

On 3/3/2023 at 3:41 PM, Warhippy said:

What cap space did they shed for next year?

They swapped Horvat, UFA next year for Hronek and Antony B and Raty.    Avoided one albatross deal anyways.  So far anyways.    Miller yep that's going to hurt.   And added a legit top four D, only 25.   Teams also the 3rd youngest in the league now.   From 9th at the start of the season.  

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, sxqhfeh said:

Look at Tampa (who Allvin models this team after)

From 2008 - 2014 they drafted these players:

2007 Killorn 3rd round, 77th

2008 Stamkos 1st overall

2009 Hedman 2nd overall

2011 Kucherov 2nd round, 58th

2012 Vasileskiy 19th overall

2014 Point 3rd round, 79th

2015 Cirelli 3rd round, 72nd

Eight years of consistent finds in the draft to build a core that they’ve continued to roll with for the following eight years, moving picks for depth complementary players and consistently moving on from mid-tier players that demanded too large of contracts. It’s a fantastic model but one that can’t be replicated unless your top guys are patient enough to let the process play out.

Hughes and Pettersson clearly aren’t like Stamkos and Kucherov no matter how badly Rutherford and Allvin want them to be.

Blow it the f•ck up and build it properly. But as people said it’s just pissing in the wind with this team.

You need to talk to our owner if that’s th3 direction you want. He’s the one who set the philosophy of constant build and no steps back. 

[48MPHSlapShot]

I like how people are turning on Pettersson and Hughes because they don't want to be on losing teams for multiple years in a row 

[fanofvan]

1 hour ago, wallstreetamigo said:

No player wants to have a long painful rebuild. Allowing a couple of players to determine which direction you go is stupid though. Same as it was when they tried to prop up the team for the Sedins.

 

You don’t continue the same direction when it hasn’t worked for 10 years. That’s just insanity. 
 

I laugh at anyone (including Hughes) who says with a straight face this roster is anywhere close to being competitive. He of course has to say that but I doubt it’s how he really feels. 

Hughes doesn’t have to say it…he could say the team is nowhere near competing…what are they going to do, trade him??

[wallstreetamigo]

Just now, fanofvan said:

Hughes doesn’t have to say it…he could say the team is nowhere near competing…what are they going to do, trade him??

No chance any player would say that unless they are already demanding a trade.

[sxqhfeh]

11 minutes ago, Alflives said:

You need to talk to our owner if that’s th3 direction you want. He’s the one who set the philosophy of constant build and no steps back. 

Another WIN for Aqua, another LOSE for the fanbase. We thought getting rid of Benning would help us, but clearly Aqua's tendrils have infected Allvin and this front office..

[DownUndaCanuck]

The honest problem with this team is that we got 2 good stars during our time tanking and haven't built around them well enough. Cup winning teams collect such good players when they tank - look at Tampa, Chicago, Pittsburgh etc. Their cores are built up of top first overall picks time and time again, but also they draft and develop 2nd and 3rd round picks well.

 

Our problem is that we tanked for a good 5 years and have just Petey and Hughes to show for it. Virtanen and Juolevi were wasted picks. Had we have drafted say Nylander and Tkachuk, this would be a massive core.

 

Now we're in the dilemma where Petey and Hughes are world class players but have no one else good around them because of our poor drafting, and we feel bad for wasting their primes.

 

Now we trade picks away to, instead of develop stars ourselves, hope that we can pry other team's good players away to scrap and build around Petey and Hughes. The problem with this is that no team is going to give us their best players, even for such high picks, so we end up building a new core around team's 2nd or 3rd best players or prospects instead of finding and developing a top star through the draft.

 

Absolute mess of a team. This will work for a bit, sure. We may challenge for the playoffs next year. But we will never be a contender under this scheme because we'll never have the best of the best players.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, sxqhfeh said:

Another WIN for Aqua, another LOSE for the fanbase. We thought getting rid of Benning would help us, but clearly Aqua's tendrils have infected Allvin and this front office..

The philosophy worked with Gillis at the helm. But even when it works it’s very short sighted. The cost in futures limits the length of winning. Even if we start winning, then the support guys will deserve bigger contracts.  So they move on to clubs that can pay them. And we don’t have the depth in the organization (because we used futures to build the club) to replace them. 

It’s what our owner wants, so hopefully we see another Gillis type successful team, even if it’s only three years lived. 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

1 hour ago, wallstreetamigo said:

No player wants to have a long painful rebuild. Allowing a couple of players to determine which direction you go is stupid though. Same as it was when they tried to prop up the team for the Sedins.

Benning sure did a good job of accomplishing that (years with the Sedins when Benning was GM):

2014-15:  Tied for 8th overall

2015-16:  3rd worst in the league

2016-17:  2nd worst in the league

2017-18:  Tied for 5th worst in the league

 

[chon derry]

1 hour ago, Boudrias said:

Agreed that no player can determine the direction a team has to take to compete for a Cup. Right now I would think there is an alignment between the team and Petey and Hughes. They know it is their turn to lead a NHL team. They have seen what the NHL can throw at them on and off the ice. They are now playing for a coach who has a set plan. They have just watched their GM make trades to strengthen their team. They know he isn’t finished. I think they are probably pretty excited. That said they saw a long time captain moved out who didn’t fit anymore. Lots of lessons happening this year.

 

15 minutes ago, fanofvan said:

Hughes doesn’t have to say it…he could say the team is nowhere near competing…what are they going to do, trade him??

 

14 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

No chance any player would say that unless they are already demanding a trade.

I didn’t like the comment. It’s a little like the tail wagging the dog. Further to that end I’m surprised the local media hasn’t twisted it out of proportion. That old saying…..theirs is not to wonder why but to do or die. There’s a little sense of intitalment in there. I mean is he that close to saying he doesn’t want to be here , nothing short of success? Guys like Stan smyl played their entire career for far less money and no cup , with pride I might say.  and never came close to saying crap like that. 

[spook007]

11 minutes ago, chon derry said:

 

 

I didn’t like the comment. It’s a little like the tail wagging the dog. Further to that end I’m surprised the local media hasn’t twisted it out of proportion. That old saying…..theirs is not to wonder why but to do or die. There’s a little sense of intitalment in there. I mean is he that close to saying he doesn’t want to be here , nothing short of success? Guys like Stan smyl played their entire career for far less money and no cup , with pride I might say.  and never came close to saying crap like that. 

True... in saying that, at least he is up front about how he feels about it all... Then its up to management to decide if they will rebuild or retool or what they call it...

 

I don't like it neither, as it doesn't show too much loyalty, but it is, what it is....

[Warhippy]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

They swapped Horvat, UFA next year for Hronek and Antony B and Raty.    Avoided one albatross deal anyways.  So far anyways.    Miller yep that's going to hurt.   And added a legit top four D, only 25.   Teams also the 3rd youngest in the league now.   From 9th at the start of the season.  

We have 1.7 million in space.  With 11 players hitting ufa or RFA status.  One being Ferland.  Holgander, Bear, Dermott, Focht and Kravstov being the most essential.

 

We didn't exactly gain or garner any cap space that is registered as being a considerable success

[Boudrias]

4 hours ago, -DLC- said:

There's also a good chance we get a bit of an increase and some cap relief. 

 

They likely have a bit more insight into things than the average armchair gm does.

Maybe that Miller contract won’t look that bad after all!! Most fans don’t like Bettman but he should get some credit for the revenue he has generated outside of gate receipts. 

[hockeyfan-observer]

The failure of this year was a result of poor defensive play - Dmen playing out of position, odd systems and not having Demko to save them each game like he did during the past few years.  I understand some want a full rebuild  - but full rebuilds may take 5+ years with a strip down and Petey and Huggy probably were not too enthusiastic with waiting 5 years to be a competitive.team.  The difference between 2014 and now is that Vancouver did not have two youngsters in the top 10 scoring at their position back then - realistically, I think the retooling process will still be about 2-3 years.

 

Unless, they are able to nab a stud d-man, it will be proper systems play with the personnel they have acquired. If they make the necessary cap adjustments and play a proper system, I believe next year's results will be what should have been accomplished this year (85-90 points).  Probably not enough to make the playoffs.and will be surprised they do.

 

Hoping for some luck in the lottery this year to speed up the retooling (aka minor rebuild) process.

[Mo Grit]

24 minutes ago, spook007 said:

True... in saying that, at least he is up front about how he feels about it all... Then its up to management to decide if they will rebuild or retool or what they call it...

I don't like it neither, as it doesn't show too much loyalty, but it is, what it is....

Though, Quinn's honesty is giving us a crystal ball, isn't it?

We're gifted a glance into how we'll look in a couple of years from now, if we've not progressed enough to be competitive.

Had we owned that crystal ball three years ago, even Fransesco might have accepted a wholesale staff firing, embracing a full rebuild to clean house.

But three years ago no-one forecast the fantastic morphing of too-skinny Pettersson and too-small Hughes into today's elite talent.

They've worked their arses off and have earned the right to play for a contender.

There'll be a point in time where their premium trade value/existing contract connects with their realization that we're not getting to where they want us to be.

Will we be capable of seeing it?

Or even prepare for it with next trades or drafts.