Goal:thecup Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 39 minutes ago, Baratheon said: Imagine an all time dream panel of Dave Pratt, Neil Macrae, Thomas Drance and Dan Russell. Just shredding everything right down to individual players facial hair. “This team is never going anywhere as long as they don’t have a handlebar moustache on the team!” Don't forget The Undertaker. Who can ever forget that drink of piss and moan? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 40 minutes ago, thrago said: They only traded Horvat because they couldn't sign him if they had the money they would, but all they have done now is punt the problem one year down the road, Hronek might and probably will outperform his contract next year but he will be hard pressed to outperform his next one as will EP. If you want to win a CUP you need to have contracts that outperform their cost and the easiest way to do that is to have a steady stream of players on entry-level contracts. But the Canucks management always thinks it's special and can skip that step. The biggest problem Canuck management has is they can't wrap their heads around the Salary cap. They simply don't understand how it works and constantly back themselves in a corner, they are like children that don't understand that if they want this expensive toy for their birthday that means they can't get a bunch of other presents too. It's maddening, the sheer incompetence of it all. These guys talk like they understand the cap, but they don't plain and simple. We traded Bo because he’s a 50-60 point centre, who struggles defensively that was demanding a gross overpay. We got a fabulous return and turned (part of that return) into a much needed young, right shot D to carry our second pairing. This management is very smart with cap. They reallocated the Horvat money into a great young D. We now have Demko, Petey, Hughes, Hronek, Miller to build around. That’s a super core five. Waiting on the Hronek deal would have been foolish. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawdzukes Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 1 hour ago, Alflives said: We traded Bo because he’s a 50-60 point centre, who struggles defensively that was demanding a gross overpay. We got a fabulous return and turned (part of that return) into a much needed young, right shot D to carry our second pairing. This management is very smart with cap. They reallocated the Horvat money into a great young D. We now have Demko, Petey, Hughes, Hronek, Miller to build around. That’s a super core five. Waiting on the Hronek deal would have been foolish. All true Alf. The difference between now and 2015 is that Allvin has assets he can move, Benning really didn’t. If the time ever occurred where Petey or Quinn said sorry I am done here they will be able to get a very good return in compensation. I do fear that especially with Hughes as he has 2 friends who have already done that. Management has to really take care of these two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herberts Vasiljevs Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 Drance has a small wee wee. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzle Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 11 hours ago, Timråfan said: The difference is that the Canucks isn’t a bottom feeder team. We have a great core that are almost unstoppable with a little tweeks. Hronak was one of those. You and Drance doesn’t get that… The Canucks are a bottom feeder team. Arguing against evidence is why people can't take your points seriously. We are at the bottom of the league and have been for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester13 Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 31 minutes ago, Dazzle said: The Canucks are a bottom feeder team. Arguing against evidence is why people can't take your points seriously. We are at the bottom of the league and have been for a while. The question is whether Allvin can make more good moves to turn things around in a hurry. We need some stars to align (e.g. injuries kept to a minimum), but this group has so much potential, so another Hronek-type trade or signing and suddenly a window might actually start to open. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 16 hours ago, dougieL said: The certainty of Hronek contributing now matches the certainty of him becoming more expensive after next season. Drafting a player, while a gamble, gives you the possibility of that player contributing well above his cap hit. That's the type of player that can bring a team to a different level. I see this has been your take on a couple threads, including your own (where I responded to you). While what you say is partly true, understand that we traded for J.T. Miller and got four good years out of him at an insanely cheap rate. Free agency, as risky as it might be, can turn cheap players into superstars too. We got great value out of players like Samuelsson, Vanek, and Kuzmenko for sure. Even a trade like Ehrhoff got us an excellent player for 2 years. The issue is that we don't flip these players and re-sign them instead. We got great value for Horvat. If we're not looking good next year, it makes total sense to flip Beauvillier and Hronek for other younger players on affordable contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianRugby Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 On 3/4/2023 at 1:37 PM, -DLC- said: Wait until his Leafs flop again. Can hardly wait. That's the only think Canucks fans have had to look forward to for the last 10 years. Pretty sad. I'm cheering for Bo and Schenn to do well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougieL Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 1 hour ago, Bob.Loblaw said: I see this has been your take on a couple threads, including your own (where I responded to you). While what you say is partly true, understand that we traded for J.T. Miller and got four good years out of him at an insanely cheap rate. Free agency, as risky as it might be, can turn cheap players into superstars too. We got great value out of players like Samuelsson, Vanek, and Kuzmenko for sure. Even a trade like Ehrhoff got us an excellent player for 2 years. The issue is that we don't flip these players and re-sign them instead. We got great value for Horvat. If we're not looking good next year, it makes total sense to flip Beauvillier and Hronek for other younger players on affordable contracts. Yeah I thought we did the right thing with Horvat, especially considering that we extended Miller. We did get 4 years of a cheap deal with Miller. That turned out to be a good bet because we could have flipped him for more than just a first round pick had we not extended him. As for Hronek - given the way Allvin spoke about him, I have a hard time seeing him getting flipped next year if the season goes sideways, but of course I could be wrong. My main issue with Hronek is that his contract expires after next season. I understand he will still be an RFA, but given that he turns 26 in November, any kind of extension exceeding one year will include buying UFA years. By all accounts, his price will go up appreciably, and at exactly the same time Pettersson will also get a huge raise. Of course we'll have to see what he signs for and how well he plays, but my question is how much surplus value he can deliver on his next contract. If Hronek was 22 and on a cheap deal that extended a few years, I would have been happy with this trade. Again, you can't just accumulate good players. You have to accumulate good players that perform above their cap hit. By taking these shortcuts, you're essentially losing multiple years of a potentially huge value. Yes, I also understand that a draft pick can turn into nothing, but if you want to be an elite contender for the Cup, you have to gamble. As I mentioned before, taking these shortcuts raises our floor but lowers our ceiling - and guess where that leaves you...likely somewhere around the middle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougieL Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 14 hours ago, Timråfan said: The difference is that the Canucks isn’t a bottom feeder team. We have a great core that are almost unstoppable with a little tweeks. Hronak was one of those. You and Drance doesn’t get that… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougieL Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 15 hours ago, Timråfan said: The difference is that the Canucks isn’t a bottom feeder team. We have a great core that are almost unstoppable with a little tweeks. Hronak was one of those. You and Drance doesn’t get that… 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timråfan Posted March 6, 2023 Author Share Posted March 6, 2023 4 hours ago, dougieL said: Yeah I thought we did the right thing with Horvat, especially considering that we extended Miller. We did get 4 years of a cheap deal with Miller. That turned out to be a good bet because we could have flipped him for more than just a first round pick had we not extended him. As for Hronek - given the way Allvin spoke about him, I have a hard time seeing him getting flipped next year if the season goes sideways, but of course I could be wrong. My main issue with Hronek is that his contract expires after next season. I understand he will still be an RFA, but given that he turns 26 in November, any kind of extension exceeding one year will include buying UFA years. By all accounts, his price will go up appreciably, and at exactly the same time Pettersson will also get a huge raise. Of course we'll have to see what he signs for and how well he plays, but my question is how much surplus value he can deliver on his next contract. If Hronek was 22 and on a cheap deal that extended a few years, I would have been happy with this trade. Again, you can't just accumulate good players. You have to accumulate good players that perform above their cap hit. By taking these shortcuts, you're essentially losing multiple years of a potentially huge value. Yes, I also understand that a draft pick can turn into nothing, but if you want to be an elite contender for the Cup, you have to gamble. As I mentioned before, taking these shortcuts raises our floor but lowers our ceiling - and guess where that leaves you...likely somewhere around the middle. So, how will PA find a cheaper RHD that is really good? Pietrangelo?? Isn’t it better to get that player while still young and let that player get a raise here instead? PA managed to get a top RHD jus because Yzerman got greedy when offered a 1st and a 2nd. How many top RHD has the Canucks drafted through their history in NHL and how long are you willing to wait for that top RHD by draft? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timråfan Posted March 6, 2023 Author Share Posted March 6, 2023 7 hours ago, Dazzle said: The Canucks are a bottom feeder team. Arguing against evidence is why people can't take your points seriously. We are at the bottom of the league and have been for a while. 4 hours ago, dougieL said: Well, let’s see next year how much crow you can eat together with Drance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzle Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 29 minutes ago, Timråfan said: Well, let’s see next year how much crow you can eat together with Drance. The Canucks are factually a bottom feeding team this year and the year before. It is not a matter of opinion. The standings and where the Canucks placed speak for themselves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timråfan Posted March 6, 2023 Author Share Posted March 6, 2023 25 minutes ago, Dazzle said: The Canucks are factually a bottom feeding team this year and the year before. It is not a matter of opinion. The standings and where the Canucks placed speak for themselves And? we all know that this season is a bust. If you’re still in the basement and don’t dare to go out in the sun it’s all on you. The dark ages are over now. You know that guy Benning that trashed the Canucks for so many years is gone now. We got a new management that plays the game on a completely different, higher, level wich you should have noticed by now. We are not a basement dweller going forward. We maybe tank a bit and if so we are disguised as a basement dweller but that isn’t the same as being one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanP Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 On 3/4/2023 at 3:21 PM, MattWN. said: I don't know, you could probably google it though. Check how many teams have averaged a worse record than us during that tenure too. That'd be fun to see. Let’s see - Montreal, Columbus, Detroit, New Jersey, Ottawa, Edmonton, Arizona, Seattle (by points percentage) and Buffalo. Not many, but also not as few as you implied. I guess you didn’t expect someone to call out your bs… 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougieL Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 2 hours ago, Timråfan said: Well, let’s see next year how much crow you can eat together with Drance. Haha okay. I'm still not totally clear though - what exactly has to happen next year for Drance to eat crow? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougieL Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 1 minute ago, RomanP said: Let’s see - Montreal, Columbus, Detroit, New Jersey, Ottawa, Edmonton, Arizona, Seattle (by points percentage) and Buffalo. Not many, but also not as few as you implied. I guess you didn’t expect someone to call out your bs… How much money did those teams spend during that time, and how many draft picks did those teams trade out versus acquire? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanP Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 1 minute ago, dougieL said: How much money did those teams spend during that time, and how many draft picks did those teams trade out versus acquire? Sure, let’s change the topic when the initial premise was proven wrong. That’s exactly what Drance would do lol. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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