higgyfan Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 57 minutes ago, Alflives said: Yup. Boeser can drive his line. Garland and new Beau are not okay drivers. They are complimentary pieces. If we can add new Beau to OEL, Myers, Garland then we clear 22 million for next year. I sure hope our owner will support management and cut the cheques needed to make these Moses happen Keeping in mind that the OEL savings is $8.83 in the 1st year, $5.58 in the 2nd, then drops to 6yrs at $2.8x2yr and $2.4x46yr (payments complete in 2031). Whatever contract(s) are signed have to be sustained beyond the 1st 2 years. Also, it may be difficult finding a trade for Boeser, Beau, Garland or Myers without retention or cap return. Myers is probably the easiest, as he is UFA next season, but his $ should be earmarked for Hronik's raise. I'm not saying this can't happen, but it's a difficult plan to complete successfully. 1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said: I agree. Those 4 guys ideally would be the guys you move out. Then you have enough cap to do whatever is necessary to fill all of the holes on this team. We could be a dangerous team next year if we were able to move those 4 contracts and replace them with guys like Gavrikov, Mayfield, Schenn, Frederic, Bjugstad, Freddie Gaudreau, etc. UFA is an expensive way to replace the players that are traded. Garland, Beau (if retained or cap returned) OEL ($ for 2yrs then a huge drop) and Myers $ should be switched over to Hornek contract. I can't see how they can keep Boeser with his contract. Not sure where Poolman and Pears fit in all of this. Next season Miller $8 kicks in, the following it's Pete + Hronik and then next is Kuze. There are also the various young rfa's looking for new contracts. I suppose it can be done, but it will take some kind of wizardry to do it. Sure hurts my brain even thinking about it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawdzukes Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said: I'm okay with Boeser coming back. I think he has something to prove and he probably wants to stay with his BFF Petey. He just needs to lose some weight and get some more speed. I have hopes he can do that. I was wrong about him and I admit it. I would like to see him succeed in Vancouver. Garland can go though. Just too small to do anything. Beau I am indifferent. If we can free up that $4 million we can use that elsewhere. Or else just ride him out for one more year... I sure hope they don't go by friendship status when deciding what to do with Boeser, or any player for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 4 minutes ago, hockeyfan-observer said: Interesting we talk a lot about drafting, retooling, systems and rebuilds on this forum - was checking the standings and what Boston has done is truly staggering with 133 points and possibly another 2 this week. (I am not a fan of them so just an observation). Compare that to the top drafting teams with around 57 pts (almost need to add Canucks point total to equal the Bruins) - says a lot of about a winning culture when it is done right. I don't recall they did any full rebuild or had a very high draft pick but probably closer to a re-tool so for some teams it works. The discrepancies of NHL point totals this season is truly crazy. The Bruins is a team that players are willing to take a pay cut to be signed. They often follow up with career stats. Also...they have such a good scouting dept that they don't have to bother about top picks. Just an incredibly well put together team by an incredibly well put together management department. Every year peeps say that the Bruins will have to rebuild, but it never seems to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawdzukes Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 6 minutes ago, higgyfan said: Keeping in mind that the OEL savings is $8.83 in the 1st year, $5.58 in the 2nd, then drops to 6yrs at $2.8x2yr and $2.4x46yr (payments complete in 2031). Whatever contract(s) are signed have to be sustained beyond the 1st 2 years. Also, it may be difficult finding a trade for Boeser, Beau, Garland or Myers without retention or cap return. Myers is probably the easiest, as he is UFA next season, but his $ should be earmarked for Hronik's raise. I'm not saying this can't happen, but it's a difficult plan to complete successfully. UFA is an expensive way to replace the players that are traded. Garland, Beau (if retained or cap returned) OEL ($ for 2yrs then a huge drop) and Myers $ should be switched over to Hornek contract. I can't see how they can keep Boeser with his contract. Not sure where Poolman and Pears fit in all of this. Next season Miller $8 kicks in, the following it's Pete + Hronik and then next is Kuze. There are also the various young rfa's looking for new contracts. I suppose it can be done, but it will take some kind of wizardry to do it. Sure hurts my brain even thinking about it. I've seen this wizardry in action the last 5 years. It doesn't end well unfortunately. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alt kilgore Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 16 minutes ago, coolboarder said: No, there is no such saving if we wait a year. I used cap friendly if we buy out in 2024, it is just 2 million dollars, the same cost if we buy out now and save 7 million and just 2.3 million next year as well, no difference because he is making 10 million in 2023-24 season and 8 million 2024-25 season. The real saving comes this summer buyout window with just 100k of cap hit. It looks like it’s actually about a 4.2 million total cap savings if we waited another year buyout this summer His total cap hit is 20,533,336 buyout next summer His total cap hit is 16,353,334 https://www.capfriendly.com/buyout-calculator/oliver-ekman-larsson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 1 hour ago, Alflives said: Yup. Boeser can drive his line. Garland and new Beau are not okay drivers. They are complimentary pieces. See, I disagree with that. I have admitted that Garland is an awkward fit on our team, however he is the only one out of those three that can drive his line. When people use that term, I take it as assumed that we are talking about a player that can dominate posession and help produce offense. Brock Boeser and Beauvillier are players that finish chances and can poach very well. Beauvillier is pretty responsible as a 2-way player too. Garland is the only one out of the three that can play keep away with the puck and set up chances for open teammates. It's been painful to watch Brock over the last couple of weeks. The guy can't dangle a puck and will lose the handle on anything. Takes him forever to gather a pass and take a shot. Beauvillier has been slid down the lineup and hasn't really responded well. On the other hand, it's the end of the season and I get that the motivation isn't really there for veteran guys that have their spot locked up for next year. In any case, Garland should be moved if possible for a good return. Beauvillier should fetch something solid too, and I'm just hoping to sell Boeser for pennies on the dollar because of his big salary. Moving one of the three is needed, and being able to move two would make for an excellent off-season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 1 hour ago, Odd. said: I think you are proving @AnthonyG's point by posting this. Where are the expected goals numbers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24K PureCool Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 Lol we gonna leapfrog Blues and have the worst idss to get Bedard. Think we actually need Gary to rig this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 (edited) 40 minutes ago, AnthonyG said: goalies stop pucks, not dmen. Well they do but its not their job. Apparently it hasnt been our goalies job to make saves either lmao. Here is the same population (defense pairs over 300 minutes) and this time sorted by Expected Goals Against... Edit: So they go from being worst to 17th worst, which is a big jump. People should also notice the fact that guys like Hedman and Ekblad are in this range. 1st pairing defense pairs play against the MacKinnons and Connor McDavids of the world, they will have bad numbers. Edited April 13, 2023 by VancouverHabitant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolboarder Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 5 minutes ago, kilgore said: It looks like it’s actually about a 4.2 million total cap savings if we waited another year buyout this summer His total cap hit is 20,533,336 buyout next summer His total cap hit is 16,353,334 https://www.capfriendly.com/buyout-calculator/oliver-ekman-larsson It is not about the total of the cost, it is just one season of savings but cost more due to 2 more years than buying out next season which will be on book shorter. He is not worth keeping based on his recent performance compared to total cap hit next season. I don't care of total cost in next 8 seasons with dead cap. I do not want to drag one more year and have the conversation of saying, I told you so. If there is time to cut one anchor and timing of it, it is this season. If we keep him, think the consequence, the worst D on this team and making the playoffs might be a lost cause if we keep OEL. There is far better chance of making the playoffs next season by cutting OEL than keeping OEL with the way cap hit is structured. We have prospects replacing OEL in the farm in 2024-25 season with 4.5 million cap hit for next 2 seasons and give a raise to any players coming out of ELC and can afford a raise for next 4 years until 2031. 2 million of dead cap is not a big deal from 2027-31 because we'd be far better team than we are right now with possibility of new CBA benefitting the Canucks if they include amnesty buyout in new CBA deal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Am.Ironman Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 Such a frustrating organization. Here we are about to lock in the worst odds for a Vancouver born phenom. We fired a fan fav coach in Bruce Boudreau while we were already well out of the playoff race; in doing this, the org took on some very negative PR, and rightly so. BB was treated with utter disrespect. We went though all that ridiculousness as a team just to hire Rick Tocchet?! I mean what has RT done in his career to warrant that? It's not that I dislike the hire; he seems to have done a good job. But we are now in this position after a pointless coaching bump that pretty much screws us out of a top pick. That coaching bump would have been better utilized next season when the games will actually mean something. /rant 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 2 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: OEL buyout saves $7 million. We literally replace OEL with Gavrikov and have $1-1.5 million left over. Myers can be traded after his bonus is paid. That's another $6 million. Plenty enough to sign Mayfield with a couple million left over. It's all about cap reallocation. You reallocate the cap space from the OEL and Myers contracts and you give that money to Gavrikov and Mayfield. Guys like Hirose will be playing for minimum wage, so they help fill a roster spot. Garland, Boeser and Beau are the other 3 candidates to be moved. Not saying it's gonna be easy, but that is where the cap is going to come from to improve this team. Or JR/PA can simply do nothing and bring back every one of these players. That's the easy way out. However, does that sound like major surgery to you? Replacing OEL with Garvikov will keep our squad over the cap. That D-man is going to get $7 million as a UFA, maybe more. Even if we can trade away Myers (unlikely given his bonus kicks in during the middle of training camp when every team's cap situation has been resolved), we have to take a good chunk of salary back. So even with other contracts expiring, understand that we still also have to pay Petey in one year. We have to pay Beauvilier in one year, and if he plays with Petey, he will want more money. We have to pay Hronek next year - either he underperforms and we made a bad trade or he plays well and we fork over the cash. What we need to do is continue signing prospects and fill our core with cheap skaters who play well above their contract. Some of those high performers will have to get traded away since we can't afford them. But that is our cap situation. It must not be made worse by simply replacing OEL's salary. Even if we buy him out, we need that open cap space unused so we can re-sign core players. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Googlie Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 Full house (9500) for the Coachella Valley Firebirds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcoasting Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 43 minutes ago, I.Am.Ironman said: Such a frustrating organization. Here we are about to lock in the worst odds for a Vancouver born phenom. We fired a fan fav coach in Bruce Boudreau while we were already well out of the playoff race; in doing this, the org took on some very negative PR, and rightly so. BB was treated with utter disrespect. We went though all that ridiculousness as a team just to hire Rick Tocchet?! I mean what has RT done in his career to warrant that? It's not that I dislike the hire; he seems to have done a good job. But we are now in this position after a pointless coaching bump that pretty much screws us out of a top pick. That coaching bump would have been better utilized next season when the games will actually mean something. /rant After so many years I was just hoping for change… regardless of the lateral damage it may cause. No idea if things will get better or not but change is good. I’m not one to cry about ticket prices but after my first three games under Bb, I felt were some of the worst games I’ve seen since the 80’s… nd the price I paid made no sense for entertainment. The last 3 under RT was a different experience, hard work and effort, players talking to each other, seemed like a tougher more cohesive group for sure… still the same cost but when we left and made our way up Robson… the fans were alive again 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alt kilgore Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 45 minutes ago, coolboarder said: It is not about the total of the cost, it is just one season of savings but cost more due to 2 more years than buying out next season which will be on book shorter. He is not worth keeping based on his recent performance compared to total cap hit next season. I don't care of total cost in next 8 seasons with dead cap. I do not want to drag one more year and have the conversation of saying, I told you so. If there is time to cut one anchor and timing of it, it is this season. If we keep him, think the consequence, the worst D on this team and making the playoffs might be a lost cause if we keep OEL. There is far better chance of making the playoffs next season by cutting OEL than keeping OEL with the way cap hit is structured. We have prospects replacing OEL in the farm in 2024-25 season with 4.5 million cap hit for next 2 seasons and give a raise to any players coming out of ELC and can afford a raise for next 4 years until 2031. 2 million of dead cap is not a big deal from 2027-31 because we'd be far better team than we are right now with possibility of new CBA benefitting the Canucks if they include amnesty buyout in new CBA deal. Okay. I thought the total cap savings was the important number. But what do I know. Wait a year and 4.2 more to spend, distributed however, beginning next summer. And we are also done with OELs penalty one year sooner down side is we live with OEL for one more season. But the way I figure it we aren’t headed to the SCF next season anyways. We can carry him a year if we get other help for our top pairings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawdzukes Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 1 minute ago, kilgore said: Okay. I thought the total cap savings was the important number. But what do I know. Wait a year and 4.2 more to spend, distributed however, beginning next summer. And we are also done with OELs penalty one year sooner down side is we live with OEL for one more season. But the way I figure it we aren’t headed to the SCF next season anyways. We can carry him a year if we get other help for our top pairings This is the way it's down around here, short term gratification for long term pain. People want to buy OEL out just for the savings next season, then they figure we'll just worry about the penalty later. Well we aren't going anywhere next year so why put all of our focus into it and then suffer the same fate we are now the following year trying to fit Petey, and Hronek' s new money under the cap. We never seem to learn lol. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlakeQuinnAndEggs Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 Not enough manifestation in here. Be positive. People act like losing every game guarantees Bedard We will select first ! Power of positivity. I will win the lotto max 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Vintage Canuck- Posted April 13, 2023 Author Share Posted April 13, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 1 hour ago, hockeyfan-observer said: Interesting we talk a lot about drafting, retooling, systems and rebuilds on this forum - was checking the standings and what Boston has done is truly staggering with 133 points and possibly another 2 this week. (I am not a fan of them so just an observation). Compare that to the top drafting teams with around 57 pts (almost need to add Canucks point total to equal the Bruins) - says a lot of about a winning culture when it is done right. I don't recall they did any full rebuild or had a very high draft pick but probably closer to a re-tool so for some teams it works. The discrepancies of NHL point totals this season is truly crazy. Boston only has 3 minus players on the team. And a goalie with 40 wins, 1.89 GAA, and a .938 save %. Lindholm has 53 points, +50. Carlo has only 16 points but is +44. It's disturbing how good the group is as a team. Sweeney and Montgomery have built a powerhouse. That will hopefully be like Tampa when they lose in the first round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fakename70 Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 1 hour ago, higgyfan said: The Bruins is a team that players are willing to take a pay cut to be signed. They often follow up with career stats. Also...they have such a good scouting dept that they don't have to bother about top picks. Just an incredibly well put together team by an incredibly well put together management department. Every year peeps say that the Bruins will have to rebuild, but it never seems to happen. They’ve put together something pretty amazing, post-AGM Benning. Remember CDC’rs pumping his tires and giving him the credit for the 2010-2011 team when the Canucks hired him? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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