[PGT] Vancouver Canucks at Anaheim Ducks | Apr. 11, 2023

[spook007]

2 hours ago, AnthonyG said:

 

goalies stop pucks, not dmen. Well they do but its not their job. Apparently it hasnt been our goalies job to make saves either lmao.

Think we can agree that it is a combination. 
Since Demko came back from injury, he has been far better. 
Will OEL look better with Demko? Probably statisticly, but if not its another year of Petey/QH and Kuz wasted. 

[Fakename70]

1 hour ago, I.Am.Ironman said:

Such a frustrating organization. Here we are about to lock in the worst odds for a Vancouver born phenom. We fired a fan fav coach in Bruce Boudreau while we were already well out of the playoff race; in doing this, the org took on some very negative PR, and rightly so. BB was treated with utter disrespect. We went though all that ridiculousness as a team just to hire Rick Tocchet?! I mean what has RT done in his career to warrant that?

 

It's not that I dislike the hire; he seems to have done a good job. But we are now in this position after a pointless coaching bump that pretty much screws us out of a top pick. That coaching bump would have been better utilized next season when the games will actually mean something.

 

/rant

You’re omitting that Boudreau was never going to be the long-term hire this team needed to instill structure and stability. He should’ve been allowed to play out the season even though the team was horrible as if Green had never left and because he’s well-liked and Bedard’s a BC Boy? Neither of those was a guarantee of the top pick. 
 

If the lottery is on the up-and-up and not rigged, just think how awful a team has to be in order to get him. You really wanted that for your Vancouver Canucks? I don’t think this team is so desperate that it needs to stake its entire future on a kid playing Junior Hockey. They made the changes that needed to be made to stop the bleeding. If those changes brought more winning and a worse draft pick than the tankers are comfortable with, so be it. They’re trending in the right direction and establishing the culture, structure, and standards we all moaned about before Tocchet’s arrival. 

[ilduce39]

50 minutes ago, Fakename70 said:

They’ve put together something pretty amazing, post-AGM Benning. 
 

Remember CDC’rs pumping his tires and giving him the credit for the 2010-2011 team when the Canucks hired him? 

They haven’t won since then and it’s been 10+ years since JB’s departure.. not meant as an “in defence of Benning” post but this is a huge stretch. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, coolboarder said:

If there is time to cut one anchor and timing of it, it is this season.   If we keep him, think the consequence, the worst D on this team and making the playoffs might be a lost cause if we keep OEL.  There is far better chance of making the playoffs next season by cutting OEL than keeping OEL with the way cap hit is structured.  

OEL is nowhere close to our worst D, how could you come to that conclusion? 

 

1. Quinn 

2. Hronek 

3. OEL 

 

Some of our low minute defensemen look better because of their sheltered minutes.  

 

As soon as Brisebois and Wolanin were given 2nd pair minutes, their results cratered. 

 

I do agree that the buyout would benefit us next year, but it would be a net negative for 7 years after.  

 

This team can definitely use a healthy OEL next year, and it's the smart and prudent thing to do. 

[I.Am.Ironman]

1 hour ago, Fakename70 said:

You’re omitting that Boudreau was never going to be the long-term hire this team needed to instill structure and stability. He should’ve been allowed to play out the season even though the team was horrible as if Green had never left and because he’s well-liked and Bedard’s a BC Boy? Neither of those was a guarantee of the top pick. 
 

If the lottery is on the up-and-up and not rigged, just think how awful a team has to be in order to get him. You really wanted that for your Vancouver Canucks? I don’t think this team is so desperate that it needs to stake its entire future on a kid playing Junior Hockey. They made the changes that needed to be made to stop the bleeding. If those changes brought more winning and a worse draft pick than the tankers are comfortable with, so be it. They’re trending in the right direction and establishing the culture, structure, and standards we all moaned about before Tocchet’s arrival. 

Everyone knew BB wasn't getting extended. He was never going to be our coach next season. All that negative PR was unnecessary. My point was that RT could have been hired in the off season so we could have had the coaching bump next year when it would actually matter. The lottery is about odds; we likely would have finished aroud Philly/Arizona. These are meaningless games that won't affect the 'culture' next season.

[CanucksJay]

8 hours ago, stawns said:

He's playing well right now, under Tocchet, whether you want to give him credit or not.  Teams will be very happy to add him for a playoff run next tdl

That statement is so funny... According to who? You? Just because you say it like fact doesn't make it so. 

He's had spurts of good games and even within the game there are hairy moments but to say he's playing well seems far fetched. Sorry but I don't agree. 

I am/was a pretty big Myers fan. I was so pumped watching him against st Louis in the bubble playoffs. 

He's one of the few guys that plays well when it gets physical and there's snarl in the game. Unfortunately, when the game is a reg season game and the game is soft, Myers is unfortunately a disaster. Time after time I see him get confused on assignments and cross over into his defensive partners side of the ice while leaving his side wide open when his partner didn't even need the help and had his guy on the perimeter. I honestly want Foote to just tell him to take it easy and worry only about staying home and making the safe plays for 1 game. 

 

[CanucksJay]

42 minutes ago, VancouverHabitant said:

OEL is nowhere close to our worst D, how could you come to that conclusion? 

 

1. Quinn 

2. Hronek 

3. OEL 

 

Some of our low minute defensemen look better because of their sheltered minutes.  

 

As soon as Brisebois and Wolanin were given 2nd pair minutes, their results cratered. 

 

I do agree that the buyout would benefit us next year, but it would be a net negative for 7 years after.  

 

This team can definitely use a healthy OEL next year, and it's the smart and prudent thing to do. 

I agree with your assessment. I do think the canucks need to move some forward salary so that we can sign another bonadife top 4 d this summer that pushes OEL to 4D paired with Hronek 

[iinatcc]

3 hours ago, higgyfan said:

The Bruins is a team that players are willing to take a pay cut to be signed. They often follow up with career stats.

Also...they have such a good scouting dept that they don't have to bother about top picks. 

 

Just an incredibly well put together team by an incredibly well put together management department.

 

Every year peeps say that the Bruins will have to rebuild, but it never seems to happen.

But the Canucks got the architect of the Bruins success right ? 

 

 

[alt kilgore]

19 minutes ago, iinatcc said:

But the Canucks got the architect of the Bruins success right ? 

 

 

Boston management are masters of the Retool on the fly

Benning did not perform long in that organization for a reason

 

 

So he came to Vancouver on a Boston reputation and convinced Aquaman that he had the secret sauce for a quick turnaround.

[iinatcc]

1 minute ago, kilgore said:

 

Boston management are masters of the Retool on the fly

Benning did not perform long in that organization for a reason

 

 

So he came to Vancouver on a Boston reputation and convinced Aquaman that he had the secret sauce for a quick turnaround.

To be fair it seemed it was Linden that wanted Benning, as I remember. but when your new president has no proper experience in management of an NHL team stuff like that happens. 

[Elias Pettersson]

1 hour ago, I.Am.Ironman said:

Everyone knew BB wasn't getting extended. He was never going to be our coach next season. All that negative PR was unnecessary. My point was that RT could have been hired in the off season so we could have had the coaching bump next year when it would actually matter. The lottery is about odds; we likely would have finished aroud Philly/Arizona. These are meaningless games that won't affect the 'culture' next season.

They wanted Tocchet to come in now, not wait until the summer.  That way, Tocchet, along with Foote and Gonchar, could evaluate all of the players during actual NHL games to see what needs to be done in the summer.  Hiring him in the summer doesn't accomplish that, Tocchet would go into training camp cold as ice on what players he likes and dpesn't like.  Also, it would be too late to make decisions on trades, free agent signings, etc.

 

The fact that Tocchet and his team have been here 3 months now allows them to go into the summer knowing full well what changes need to be made.  At the end of the day, we were not going to get a top 4 pick in this draft even if Boudreau stuck around.  No way we are 20 points down from where we are now unless Demko doesn't come back and we play our AHL players top minutes.  That would be the only way we could have squeezed into the bottom 4 and management chose not to do that...

[JamesB]

1 hour ago, VancouverHabitant said:

OEL is nowhere close to our worst D, how could you come to that conclusion? 

 

1. Quinn 

2. Hronek 

3. OEL 

 

Some of our low minute defensemen look better because of their sheltered minutes.  

 

As soon as Brisebois and Wolanin were given 2nd pair minutes, their results cratered. 

 

I do agree that the buyout would benefit us next year, but it would be a net negative for 7 years after.  

 

This team can definitely use a healthy OEL next year, and it's the smart and prudent thing to do. 

Yes, it is good to apply some perspective to the OEL situation.  While many people on CDC have a good eye for the game it is pretty hard to compare the performance of Wolanin, OEL, Brisebois, and Hirose on the left side this year. The underlying analytics are consistent with that. In the Evolving Hockey GAR stat they are all very similar and various other stats tell a similar story.  However, OEL had tougher minutes and the Evolving Hockey stat does not adjust adequately for that. So OEL probably is the best of that group and is also better than Dermott. 

 

The other thing is that OEL was likely suffering from the effects of injury early in the season and he had the relative disadvantage of playing in front of poor goaltending and in weak defensive system. By the time those three other guys came up the goaltending was better and the defensive system was better. Also OEL was good the previous year and age-related decline should not be that steep.

 

So I am pretty confident OEL is #2 on the depth chart at LD. The problem that even in the most optimistic scenario his cap hit will still be way too high relative to his performance.  But my guess is that he will not be bought out although it depends on a number of other factors. The team will try to create cap room in other ways but they always have the OEL buyout available as a  last resort.  

 

 

[Elias Pettersson]

13 hours ago, VancouverHabitant said:

I think you are proving @AnthonyG's point by posting this.  

 

Where are the expected goals numbers?  

On Ice Expected Goals Against:

 

Ethan Bear is at 2.41 (41 out of 219 Dmen)

Filip Hronek is at 2.43 (52)

Quinn Hughes is at 2.49 (73)

Kyle Burroughs is at 2.57 (92)

Tyler Myers is at 2.73 (135)

Luke Schenn is at 2.92 (169)

OEL is at 2.95 (176)

 

NHL Player Statistics -Advanced Stats (moneypuck.com)

Edited April 13, 2023 by Elias Pettersson

[Elias Pettersson]

37 minutes ago, JamesB said:

Yes, it is good to apply some perspective to the OEL situation.  While many people on CDC have a good eye for the game it is pretty hard to compare the performance of Wolanin, OEL, Brisebois, and Hirose on the left side this year. The underlying analytics are consistent with that. In the Evolving Hockey GAR stat they are all very similar and various other stats tell a similar story.  However, OEL had tougher minutes and the Evolving Hockey stat does not adjust adequately for that. So OEL probably is the best of that group and is also better than Dermott. 

 

The other thing is that OEL was likely suffering from the effects of injury early in the season and he had the relative disadvantage of playing in front of poor goaltending and in weak defensive system. By the time those three other guys came up the goaltending was better and the defensive system was better. Also OEL was good the previous year and age-related decline should not be that steep.

 

So I am pretty confident OEL is #2 on the depth chart at LD. The problem that even in the most optimistic scenario his cap hit will still be way too high relative to his performance.  But my guess is that he will not be bought out although it depends on a number of other factors. The team will try to create cap room in other ways but they always have the OEL buyout available as a  last resort.  

 

 

I agree with this.  However, as you mentioned, the cap hit is the issue.  Wolanin, Brisebois and Hirose all make league minimum wage.  OEL is on the books for $7.26 million.  Saying that OEL is #2 on the depth chart for LHD isn't saying much if you are comparing him to AHL Dmen making less than $1 million.  

[viking mama]

On 4/11/2023 at 11:44 PM, -Vintage Canuck- said:

 

LOL. Yah…like the second to last game of the year is the time for lots of team goals, when you’re out of the play/offs & draft positions are on-the-line. If you want them to dig deeper now, for each other - personal & individual goals DO matter for inspiration, another major  reason for inserting these kids into the line/up.
 

Tocchet is still coaching with thunder. I get that it is all about the future & creating a new team culture & all,…but inspiration also comes from sayings upon a wall, over-coming personal challenges, a belief in one another, and wanting to see your besties attain milestone rewards & be the best they can be.

Give it a rest post/game. Dig down & find some more enthusiastic praise for your Super Star player who’s been unselfishly sacrificing himself & playing his arse off for this team & for quite sometime now - will ya?!

Gheez!!
 

 

Edited April 14, 2023 by viking mama

[Drakrami]

3 hours ago, viking mama said:

LOL. Yah…like the second to last game of the year is the time for lots of team goals, when you’re out of the play/offs & draft positions are on-the-line. If you want them to dig deeper now, for each other - personal & individual goals DO matter for inspiration, another major  reason for inserting these kids into the line/up.
 

Tocchet is still coaching with thunder. I get that it is all about the future & creating a new team culture & all,…but inspiration also comes from sayings upon a wall, over-coming personal challenges, a belief in one another, and wanting to see your besties attain  milestones rewards & be the best they can be.

Give it a rest post/game. Dig down & find some more enthusiastic praise for your Super Star player who’s been unselfishly sacrificing himself & playing his arse off for this team & for quite sometime now - will ya?!

Gheez!!
 

 

You shouldn't criticize Tocchet for doing his job. Having really good individual stats (Pettersson, Horvat, Miller 99points, Demko last season, Hughes, Kuzmenko) but really poor team performance is actually the glaring problem for this team and a recurring theme. In a sense, Tocchet is hired to correct that. So it's actually quite positive he is not lost and keeps on stressing on team performance. 

 

 

[hammertime]

13 hours ago, Alflives said:

So the guy in Minny is moronic for buying out two deadbeats and turning the team into a winner? We need to buyout OEL. He’s an anchor. 

The secret to their success is certainly 14mill dead cap. 

[Alflives]

7 minutes ago, hammertime said:

The secret to their success is certainly 14mill dead cap. 

[DrJockitch]

Funny where having the best goaltending in the Pacific got everyone this year. 
Top Pacific goalies coming into the year; Demko, Markstrom and Gibson. 

[Alflives]

32 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

Funny where having the best goaltending in the Pacific got everyone this year. 
Top Pacific goalies coming into the year; Demko, Markstrom and Gibson. 

Demko was injured.

Markstrom was awful.

Gibson has to be on a team with Zegras.

 

Yes, Marky was bad. But the other two goalies had legit excuses.