Elias Pettersson Posted April 21, 2023 Share Posted April 21, 2023 To Vancouver: Nico Sturm To San Jose Sharks: Anthony Beauviller Tucker Poolman Jack Rathbone Vancouver gets their 3C in Sturm who is 56% in the faceoff circle this year, kills penalties and won a cup with Colorado. They also shed $2 million in cap with switching Beauvillier with Sturm and also get rid of Poolman's contract. San Jose get a good D prospect in Rathbone who needs to clear waivers. We have Hirose now who already looks better than Jack. San Jose also gets Beauvillier, who they can flip at the deadline for a 2nd round pick perhaps. With this deal we get our 3C for the next 2 years at only $2 million and we have another $2 million in cap space added to fix the defence... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakrami Posted April 21, 2023 Share Posted April 21, 2023 Wow what a horrible trade for both sides. If played well, we could get a 2024 1st for Beauvillier from a playoff team. Why would SJS trade for a skinny 25 year old winger, they are full rebuild lol. And a 3C similar to Strum can be signed in the UFA market for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted April 21, 2023 Author Share Posted April 21, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Drakrami said: Wow what a horrible trade for both sides. If played well, we could get a 2024 1st for Beauvillier from a playoff team. Why would SJS trade for a skinny 25 year old winger, they are full rebuild lol. And a 3C similar to Strum can be signed in the UFA market for free. We aren't getting a 1st round pick for Beau, get real. He was literally a thrown in in the BO trade. Playing with Petey inflated his stats. I'd like to see Hoglander in that spot next season and see what he can do. Also, we are shedding $2 million in cap plus getting rid of Poolman's contract. That can't be done by just signing some guy in free agency. Who do you figure is available in free agency that is better than Sturm? If Beau plays well they can probably flip him for a 2nd. Plus they get Rathbone. Not sure they would get more than that if they just tried to trade Sturm at the deadline, considering he has 2 years left on his contract. He's a good interim 3C for 2 years until Raty is ready to go... Edited April 21, 2023 by Elias Pettersson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted April 21, 2023 Share Posted April 21, 2023 Who then plays C3 for SJS? Poolman is a problematic contract to move. He can't be counted on as a lineup regular as he could be on/off LTIR all season long - challenge for the playing roster and the cap. If he's ruled on LTIR all season it also limits roster flexibility and creates bonus overages. SJS already has a full D-corps under contract for next season. If Rathbone can't play for Tocchet/Vancouver why would he be able to play for Grier. Their owner Hasso Plattner has always refused to rebuild and seems rather impatient to get back into the post-season. Maybe Grier has convinced him otherwise but can't really see how those moves helps them in the short or long term - it creates a hole in their lineup while not addressing any long term needs and reduces their available cap space. They don't really fit the identity Grier is trying to build. He talks of tenacity and playing in your face hockey - says that's what you need to win in the post-season. Seems like Canucks under Tocchet are going to be targeting the same kind of players so not sure they make good trading partners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted April 21, 2023 Share Posted April 21, 2023 Great trade proposal. Of course our ideas will likely not happen, but at least this one is very fair to both sides. Excellent proposal! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJockitch Posted April 21, 2023 Share Posted April 21, 2023 Who really thinks we can get a first for Beau at the deadline. Come on that is pure homer fantasy. Certainly the type of player we are looking for, moves money off wing. Opens room for some size on the wing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kloubek Posted April 21, 2023 Share Posted April 21, 2023 Sturm had a great year in SJ, no doubt. And if he played like that for us, he would be a good fit and I like the deal from our side. But historically, Sturm has barely played 50 games a season. This has limited his production to, at best, 17 points a season - and that's just not really ideal for our 3rd liner center. I'd be hoping whoever that bring in to really drive that line, and get upwards of 25-30 points minimum, and preferably a bit more. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted April 21, 2023 Share Posted April 21, 2023 1 hour ago, kloubek said: Sturm had a great year in SJ, no doubt. And if he played like that for us, he would be a good fit and I like the deal from our side. But historically, Sturm has barely played 50 games a season. This has limited his production to, at best, 17 points a season - and that's just not really ideal for our 3rd liner center. I'd be hoping whoever that bring in to really drive that line, and get upwards of 25-30 points minimum, and preferably a bit more. This is what I was thinking too. Not enough games, not enough production for a 3rd line center.............good contract, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted April 21, 2023 Share Posted April 21, 2023 Maybe go after a UFA on a short contract 1-2 years like Bjugstad? (Is he more RW than Centre?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasCanuck Posted April 21, 2023 Share Posted April 21, 2023 6 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: We aren't getting a 1st round pick for Beau, get real. He was literally a thrown in in the BO trade. Playing with Petey inflated his stats. I'd like to see Hoglander in that spot next season and see what he can do. Also, we are shedding $2 million in cap plus getting rid of Poolman's contract. That can't be done by just signing some guy in free agency. Who do you figure is available in free agency that is better than Sturm? If Beau plays well they can probably flip him for a 2nd. Plus they get Rathbone. Not sure they would get more than that if they just tried to trade Sturm at the deadline, considering he has 2 years left on his contract. He's a good interim 3C for 2 years until Raty is ready to go... Beauviller is very much worth a 1st round pick at the deadline, if we don't resign him. I do think that he's one of the guys who could be traded this summer to gain more sandpaper to our overall game. We need to get bigger overall and stronger while still focusing on improved speed. Going to be an interesting summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_314 Posted April 21, 2023 Share Posted April 21, 2023 5 hours ago, mll said: Who then plays C3 for SJS? Poolman is a problematic contract to move. He can't be counted on as a lineup regular as he could be on/off LTIR all season long - challenge for the playing roster and the cap. If he's ruled on LTIR all season it also limits roster flexibility and creates bonus overages. SJS already has a full D-corps under contract for next season. If Rathbone can't play for Tocchet/Vancouver why would he be able to play for Grier. Their owner Hasso Plattner has always refused to rebuild and seems rather impatient to get back into the post-season. Maybe Grier has convinced him otherwise but can't really see how those moves helps them in the short or long term - it creates a hole in their lineup while not addressing any long term needs and reduces their available cap space. They don't really fit the identity Grier is trying to build. He talks of tenacity and playing in your face hockey - says that's what you need to win in the post-season. Seems like Canucks under Tocchet are going to be targeting the same kind of players so not sure they make good trading partners. The way they built their roster (find their top C's and top D, moved Meier at the deadline, keep Vlasic until his contract falls off the books since he might have value for them like OEL for us, get youngish guys to fill out their roster, e.g. giving Labanc/ Barabanov chances to play in the top-6) reminds me of how we built ours -- so I wouldn't be surprised if they may want a "compete now" piece like Beau who's done well here. Even with the guys they got for Meier (Zetterlund, Johnsson, etc.) there isn't nearly enough talent up front to compete, so Beau could look like a good gamble to add some scoring punch IMO. Not sure about their blue-line but I think Beauvillier at this point for Sturm would be worth it for both teams if it's just straight across. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted April 21, 2023 Author Share Posted April 21, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, mll said: Who then plays C3 for SJS? Poolman is a problematic contract to move. He can't be counted on as a lineup regular as he could be on/off LTIR all season long - challenge for the playing roster and the cap. If he's ruled on LTIR all season it also limits roster flexibility and creates bonus overages. SJS already has a full D-corps under contract for next season. If Rathbone can't play for Tocchet/Vancouver why would he be able to play for Grier. Their owner Hasso Plattner has always refused to rebuild and seems rather impatient to get back into the post-season. Maybe Grier has convinced him otherwise but can't really see how those moves helps them in the short or long term - it creates a hole in their lineup while not addressing any long term needs and reduces their available cap space. They don't really fit the identity Grier is trying to build. He talks of tenacity and playing in your face hockey - says that's what you need to win in the post-season. Seems like Canucks under Tocchet are going to be targeting the same kind of players so not sure they make good trading partners. If their owner is refusing to rebuild then why did they trade Timo Meier for futures? Seems counter productive to not rebuilding does it not? San Jose is one of the worst teams in the league. Unless they land Bedard they aren’t making the playoffs anytime soon. This deal allows them to get probably a 2nd round pick for Beau at the deadline. Plus a good D prospect. They don’t get that type of return just for Nico Sturm. It’s a good deal for both teams. I’d even do it without Poolman just to free up Beau’s contract. Edited April 21, 2023 by Elias Pettersson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted April 21, 2023 Share Posted April 21, 2023 37 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: If their owner is refusing to rebuild then why did they trade Timo Meier for futures? Seems counter productive to not rebuilding does it not? San Jose is one of the worst teams in the league. Unless they land Bedard they aren’t making the playoffs anytime soon. This deal allows them to get probably a 2nd round pick for Beau at the deadline. Plus a good D prospect. They don’t get that type of return just for Nico Sturm. It’s a good deal for both teams. I’d even do it without Poolman just to free up Beau’s contract. 46 minutes ago, Phil_314 said: The way they built their roster (find their top C's and top D, moved Meier at the deadline, keep Vlasic until his contract falls off the books since he might have value for them like OEL for us, get youngish guys to fill out their roster, e.g. giving Labanc/ Barabanov chances to play in the top-6) reminds me of how we built ours -- so I wouldn't be surprised if they may want a "compete now" piece like Beau who's done well here. Even with the guys they got for Meier (Zetterlund, Johnsson, etc.) there isn't nearly enough talent up front to compete, so Beau could look like a good gamble to add some scoring punch IMO. Not sure about their blue-line but I think Beauvillier at this point for Sturm would be worth it for both teams if it's just straight across. Meier had a 10M qualifying offer coming up and was not going to extend with them and they were out of the playoffs - can't lose him for nothing. Made sense to trade him. Who plays C3 for them? Why would they want to create a gapping hole at C3 to bring in a winger that's not even a difference maker. Where do they find the C3 to replace Sturm and at what cost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJockitch Posted April 21, 2023 Share Posted April 21, 2023 1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said: If their owner is refusing to rebuild then why did they trade Timo Meier for futures? Seems counter productive to not rebuilding does it not? San Jose is one of the worst teams in the league. Unless they land Bedard they aren’t making the playoffs anytime soon. This deal allows them to get probably a 2nd round pick for Beau at the deadline. Plus a good D prospect. They don’t get that type of return just for Nico Sturm. It’s a good deal for both teams. I’d even do it without Poolman just to free up Beau’s contract. Even with Bedard they would need a couple years of rebuilding. All changes if can move Karlsson who could make rebuild awkward. ‘Deal doesn’t really make sense for SJ. Not sure Rathbone holds that much value to trade a decent centre for a small middle six winger with some speed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_314 Posted April 21, 2023 Share Posted April 21, 2023 (edited) 22 minutes ago, mll said: Meier had a 10M qualifying offer coming up and was not going to extend with them and they were out of the playoffs - can't lose him for nothing. Made sense to trade him. Who plays C3 for them? Why would they want to create a gapping hole at C3 to bring in a winger that's not even a difference maker. Where do they find the C3 to replace Sturm and at what cost? Free agency has depth centers? It's probably easier to find a defensive C (they were playing Lorentz higher in the lineup near season's end to see if he could handle more minutes) than it is to find more productive wingers (they hardly even have difference making wingers in their top-6, Barabanov is probably their only surefire guy; Labanc goes cold for stretches and neither Bordeleau or Eklund are likely ready for top-6 minutes and it just might be in their best interest to insulate them somewhat so they can develop without too much pressure). Couture and Hertl won't be productive forever, they're going to need scoring help and depth centers should be lower in priority. Edited April 21, 2023 by Phil_314 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted April 21, 2023 Share Posted April 21, 2023 1 minute ago, Phil_314 said: Free agency has depth centers? It's probably easier to find a defensive C (they were playing Lorentz higher in the lineup near season's end to see if he could handle more minutes) than it is to find more productive wingers (they hardly even have difference making wingers in their top-6, Barabanov is probably their only surefire guy; Labanc goes cold for stretches and neither Bordeleau or Eklund are likely ready for top-6 minutes and it just might be in their best interest to insulate them somewhat so they can develop without too much pressure). Couture and Hertl won't be productive forever, they're going to need scoring help and depth centers should be lower in priority. Free agency also has wingers. Beauvillier is also a stop gap - he's not young enough to be part of the future + he's UFA in a year. How does it help their long term. Sturm is a 2M cap hit for another 2 seasons - can they find a C3 at that price point. He's a cheap stop gap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_314 Posted April 21, 2023 Share Posted April 21, 2023 (edited) 20 minutes ago, mll said: Free agency also has wingers. Beauvillier is also a stop gap - he's not young enough to be part of the future + he's UFA in a year. How does it help their long term. Sturm is a 2M cap hit for another 2 seasons - can they find a C3 at that price point. He's a cheap stop gap. RFAs who would be available (early 20-somethings that their previous team lets go) would be projects at best, since good teams would want to keep their kids and those kids would want to stay there (or they'd trade them to teams that could use them for picks in cap dump situations). Same applies for guys in the 2nd half of their 20's (e.g. Engvall, Suter, Donato, Ritchie, etc.) who would be available but might be bottom-6 guys forced to play up the lineup, and the Sharks might have to pay them more to add them when they aren't the difference maker they want. Keep in mind that with the cyclical nature of team contention that good players want to win Cups, so unless they overpay the Sharks might be stuck with middling guys with capped potential ceilings (and even if they overpay they still might not get the star) or past-their-prime vets (e.g. Nyquist, Zucker, Fast, Dadonov), whereas Beauvillier's at least shown flashes of promise while being younger, and he has no say on where he goes. Do you know of a pending star FA who would fit in the Johnny Gaudreau to Columbus mode, who may or may not be that young but will definitely fit in the future core, who would want to go to the Sharks? Edited April 21, 2023 by Phil_314 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted April 21, 2023 Share Posted April 21, 2023 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Phil_314 said: RFAs who would be available (early 20-somethings that their previous team lets go) would be projects at best, since good teams would want to keep their kids and those kids would want to stay there (or they'd trade them to teams that could use them for picks in cap dump situations). Same applies for guys in the 2nd half of their 20's (e.g. Engvall, Suter, Donato, Ritchie, etc.) who would be available but might be bottom-6 guys forced to play up the lineup, and the Sharks might have to pay them more to add them when they aren't the difference maker they want. Do you know of a pending FA who would fit in the Johnny Gaudreau to Columbus mode, who may or may not be that young but will definitely fit in the future core, who would want to go to the Sharks? Keep in mind that with the cyclical nature of team contention that good players want to win Cups, so unless they overpay the Sharks might be stuck with middling guys with capped potential ceilings (and even if they overpay they still might not get the star) or past-their-prime vets (e.g. Nyquist, Zucker, Fast, Dadonov), whereas Beauvillier's at least shown flashes of promise while being younger, and he has no say on where he goes. Beauvillier is UFA in a year. Sturm is not untouchable but I don't see how it makes sense to create a hole at C3 for a 1 year winger. Beauvillier is not going to turn them into contenders for next season. SJS needs futures if they want to try and turn this thing around. Their prospect pool is shallow and their veterans are ageing out. They can't be looking to contend next season and have to build for the future. Wouldn't expect them to go after difference makers just yet - their team doesn't look ready to contend. Edited April 21, 2023 by mll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_314 Posted April 21, 2023 Share Posted April 21, 2023 2 minutes ago, mll said: Beauvillier is UFA in a year. Sturm is not untouchable but I don't see how it makes sense to create a hole at C3 for a 1 year winger. Beauvillier is not going to turn them into contenders for next season. SJS needs futures if they want to try and turn this thing around. Their prospect pool is shallow and their veterans are ageing out. They can't be looking to contend next season. If you're just going to ignore the points I made without adding anything to the discussion except for the same repeated talking points ("Beau's a pending UFA", "moving Sturm creates a 3rd C hole", "Beau's not part of their future") without adding much, there's no point in the response. What happened to "Free Agency also has wingers"? You still didn't bring up any plausible names that the Sharks could possibly sign. Still waiting to hear it. Also, if you say "their prospect pool is shallow" and the "vets are aging out" and they "can't be looking to contend", 1) what happened to your initial argument that their owner "has always refused to rebuild and seems rather impatient to get back into the post-season", which one is it? Are they trying to win like you said, or are they looking for futures, like you say here? 2) how will they have that transitional group of players who would at least play for them after their vets have phased out and the prospect calvary hasn't arrived yet? Wouldn't a 25 year old be the exact kind of player that they'd look for, since he's showing scoring upside that the rest of the roster has been lacking? Tanking teams can't afford to be choosey about who they take on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattWN. Posted April 21, 2023 Share Posted April 21, 2023 12 hours ago, Drakrami said: Wow what a horrible trade for both sides. If played well, we could get a 2024 1st for Beauvillier from a playoff team. Why would SJS trade for a skinny 25 year old winger, they are full rebuild lol. And a 3C similar to Strum can be signed in the UFA market for free. No we cant lol. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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