11th overall pick in the 2023 Entry Draft

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Gurn said:

Miller's deal hasn't even kicked in yet, and he's already trending downward. Maybe it is a 'team friendly' deal for the first 2-3 years, but the end of contract is going to either cripple the team, or cost a ton to get rid of.

Letting Brock walk, for nothing, or now having to give up draft picks AND players to make cap space- which would be better to do?

 

New shiny management, always looks better than old management.

 

Key word "looks"; doesn't mean IS better- and even if it is better- it may not be good enough.

 

A lot of short term planning going on, in the management and fan ranks.

"Who cares about 3 years from now"  "I'll just put this on my credit card and make the minimum payments for the next 10 years"

"what could possibly go wrong with that?"

 

 

We kept 11OA, snd will get a very good prospect with the pick. We moved Bo for a first that had a lot of value at the TDL. We then used that high value pick to get a 25 year old right shot top pairing D. 
Draft picks can be used to acquire important pieces. So we made the team better, younger, and kept our first. That’s winning. 

[Gurn]

8 minutes ago, Alflives said:

We then used that high value pick to get a 25 year old right shot top pairing D. 

With a bad shoulder,  previous concussion issues and has been scratched so that Troy Stetcher could play instead.

Maybe pump the brakes a bit on Filip.

[eeeeergh]

46 minutes ago, Gurn said:

Miller's deal hasn't even kicked in yet, and he's already trending downward. Maybe it is a 'team friendly' deal for the first 2-3 years, but the end of contract is going to either cripple the team, or cost a ton to get rid of.

Letting Brock walk, for nothing, or now having to give up draft picks AND players to make cap space- which would be better to do?

 

New shiny management, always looks better than old management.

 

Key word "looks"; doesn't mean IS better- and even if it is better- it may not be good enough.

 

A lot of short term planning going on, in the management and fan ranks.

"Who cares about 3 years from now"  "I'll just put this on my credit card and make the minimum payments for the next 10 years"

"what could possibly go wrong with that?"

 

 

We’re not gonna be crippled by miller

 

look around the league you MUST lock up top players who are pending ufas to age 38 or so. Miller also outperforms and is underpaid compared to his most similar comparables.

 

Millers contract is also very buyout friendly. we can buy out his 3 remaining seasons in 2027 and our annual cap hit will be 1.7m. Salary cap will be over 100m at that point, making it a cap hit equivalent to under 1.5 million in today dollars.

 

not crippling at all.

 

 

 

 

[spook007]

41 minutes ago, Gurn said:

Miller's deal hasn't even kicked in yet, and he's already trending downward. Maybe it is a 'team friendly' deal for the first 2-3 years, but the end of contract is going to either cripple the team, or cost a ton to get rid of.

Letting Brock walk, for nothing, or now having to give up draft picks AND players to make cap space- which would be better to do?

 

New shiny management, always looks better than old management.

 

Key word "looks"; doesn't mean IS better- and even if it is better- it may not be good enough.

 

A lot of short term planning going on, in the management and fan ranks.

"Who cares about 3 years from now"  "I'll just put this on my credit card and make the minimum payments for the next 10 years"

"what could possibly go wrong with that?"

 

 

Maybe we should make our assessment after this coming season regarding Miller...

From 99 pts to 82 and even worse from +15 to -7..., but is it not fair to say the whole team was trending downwards in the end under Bruce stewardship?

I have a feeling that every one scored points under Bruce, but gave up even more defensively... 

 

If Miller stays at around 82 points, but goes back to a positive +/- like previously, would the $8M be a bad contract? At least for now it would be a fair one, although at a later stage he likely gets a lesser output. How much he declines is anyones guess, but he brings something to our forward lines, that nobody else is the top 6 does, sadly....

 

Personally I hope for more players in the JT mould than less....

[spook007]

6 minutes ago, eeeeergh said:

We’re not gonna be crippled by miller

 

look around the league you MUST lock up top players who are pending ufas to age 38 or so. Miller also outperforms and is underpaid compared to his most similar comparables.

 

Millers contract is also very buyout friendly. we can buy out his 3 remaining seasons in 2027 and our annual cap hit will be 1.7m. Salary cap will be over 100m at that point, making it a cap hit equivalent to under 1.5 million in today dollars.

 

not crippling at all.

 

 

 

 

This is a very important point, you're making... Huge difference to the anchors we have been dealing with up to now.

[Gurn]

8 minutes ago, eeeeergh said:

Salary cap will be over 100m at that point,

Maybe it will, maybe it won't. 

Was going up by $4 mill this season, until it wasn't.

 

10 minutes ago, eeeeergh said:

look around the league you MUST lock up top players who are pending ufas to age 38 or so

If everybody goes and plays in the middle of the highway, does that mean we have to, too?

 

12 minutes ago, eeeeergh said:

Millers contract is also very buyout friendly. we can buy out his 3 remaining seasons in 2027 and our annual cap hit will be 1.7m.

Buy outs are, imo, a silly thing to do. Mortgaging the future to pay off a self created problem is seldom a good thing.

[Gurn]

16 minutes ago, spook007 said:

Personally I hope for more players in the JT mould than less....

I hope for less.

I do hope for more Schenn, and  Burroughs types.

Guys that play physical, with lower giveaways, and way less drama.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyhow- tis the wrong thread for this so

back to the topic

Edited May 14, 2023 by Gurn

[NewbieCanuckFan]

....

Edited May 14, 2023 by NewbieCanuckFan

[flickyoursedin]

Just please don’t trade it to move out salary.

[Gurn]

might have mentioned this earlier, in this thread, even.

Is it still better to go "BPA" than positional need, given a salary cap world? Seems trades are not as easy as they once were. Has this or should this change the thinking?

[flickyoursedin]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

We kept 11OA, snd will get a very good prospect with the pick. We moved Bo for a first that had a lot of value at the TDL. We then used that high value pick to get a 25 year old right shot top pairing D. 
Draft picks can be used to acquire important pieces. So we made the team better, younger, and kept our first. That’s winning. 

I wouldn’t label Hronek a top pairing RHD just yet. I’m worried about his point production as a lot of it came on the PP in Detroit and he’s likely not going to be getting top PP opportunities here. We’ll be going with Hughes and 4 forwards. I hope I’m wrong but I see Hronek going back to his norm of being a 35-40 point 2nd pairing dman. I mean the Dallas Stars gave up a 1rst round pick for Lundkvist who I saw as a bottom pairing small RHD so maybe that’s just the normal inflated prices for a guy that can play on the right side. Rather have Hronek at that price then Lundkvist for what the Stars gave up.

[eeeeergh]

59 minutes ago, Gurn said:

Maybe it will, maybe it won't. 

Was going up by $4 mill this season, until it wasn't.

 

If everybody goes and plays in the middle of the highway, does that mean we have to, too?

 

Buy outs are, imo, a silly thing to do. Mortgaging the future to pay off a self created problem is seldom a good thing.

I mean it was an unusual situation caused by escrow debt/remaining effects of Covid and reduced nhl team revenue. 
 

if you don’t you literally won’t have any good players on your team over the age of 25. All will walk to other teams because the net difference they can earn will be 10 million dollars +++. It’s not feasible to avoid these contracts. 
 

what’s wrong with buyouts if they aren’t crippling? I don’t think any of us would bat an eye at the OEL contract right now if the cap hit was 1.5 million for a couple years. Seems silly to write off all buyouts as bad when they can be a very useful tool to help you structure your contracts to give players max $ (what they want) and yourself the ability to have max cap flexibility (what you want) 

[Elias Pettersson]

2 hours ago, Gurn said:

With a bad shoulder,  previous concussion issues and has been scratched so that Troy Stetcher could play instead.

Maybe pump the brakes a bit on Filip.

When did Hronek get a concussion?  His shoulder was good enough to play with, they shut him down because the season was basically over, he doesn't even need surgery.

 

You are implying that Hronek is messed up with injuries, which is not true.  And implying that he's so bad that Stecher needed to take his place.  

 

I agree that Alf needs to pump his brakes on Filip a little bit, but you're also pumping him 100% in the opposite direction as well...

[Gurn]

6 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

When did Hronek get a concussion?  His shoulder was good enough to play with, they shut him down because the season was basically over, he doesn't even need surgery.

 

You are implying that Hronek is messed up with injuries, which is not true.  And implying that he's so bad that Stecher needed to take his place.  

 

I agree that Alf needs to pump his brakes on Filip a little bit, but you're also pumping him 100% in the opposite direction as well...

https://www.capfriendly.com/injury/players/filip-hronek

"

Dec. 14, 2022

 

 Filip Hronek has a concussion. The expected duration is unknown."

 

note the other injuries.

https://detroithockeynow.com/2021/10/24/red-wings-hronek-healthy-scratch-against-habs/

"

Filip Hronek took a seat on Saturday. As the defenseman watched, the Detroit Red Wings took it on the chin from the Montreal Canadiens.

Hronek was a healthy scratch for the Red Wings’ 6-1 loss to the Canadiens at the Bell Centre. After the game, Red Wings coach Jeff Blashill acknowledged that health wasn’t an issue for Hronek.

“Coach’s decision,”Blashill said of Hronek’s absence from the lineup. “Just a decision.

“I said we got 8 D that I think are NHL defensemen. I made the decision to put Stech (Troy Stecher) in. Somebody has to come out.”

 

 

[flickyoursedin]

Here’s hoping BPA and positional value meet like the Quinn Hughes draft.

[spook007]

45 minutes ago, Gurn said:

https://www.capfriendly.com/injury/players/filip-hronek

"

Dec. 14, 2022

 

 Filip Hronek has a concussion. The expected duration is unknown."

 

note the other injuries.

https://detroithockeynow.com/2021/10/24/red-wings-hronek-healthy-scratch-against-habs/

"

Filip Hronek took a seat on Saturday. As the defenseman watched, the Detroit Red Wings took it on the chin from the Montreal Canadiens.

Hronek was a healthy scratch for the Red Wings’ 6-1 loss to the Canadiens at the Bell Centre. After the game, Red Wings coach Jeff Blashill acknowledged that health wasn’t an issue for Hronek.

“Coach’s decision,”Blashill said of Hronek’s absence from the lineup. “Just a decision.

“I said we got 8 D that I think are NHL defensemen. I made the decision to put Stech (Troy Stecher) in. Somebody has to come out.”

 

 

He was in concussion protocol, but didn't miss a game... 

The scratching was in October 2021 more than a year prior to the hit from Reeves...

 

Dec 28, 2022

GARNERS HELPER IN COMEBACK WIN

Hronek delivered an assist in Wednesday's 5-4 overtime win over the Penguins.

ANALYSIS

Two weeks ago, a hard hit from Minnesota's Ryan Reaves caused Hronek to go through concussion protocol. However, the playmaking defenseman still hasn't missed a game in what has easily been his best season to date. Hronek is up to seven goals and 19 assists through 33 games, plus he's rocking a plus-14 rating as he looks to become a more complete player.

 

Dec 17, 2022

SET TO PLAY AGAINST SENATORS

Hronek (concussion protocol) is expected to be in the lineup Saturday versus Ottawa, Ansar Khan of MLive.com reports.

ANALYSIS

Hronek was forced to leave Wednesday's game against Minnesota following a hard hit from Wild forward Ryan Reaves. He was cleared to get back on the ice in a full capacity during Friday's practice. He is slated to play alongside Jake Walman. Hronek has racked up six goals and 24 points in 29 games this season.

 

Dec 16, 2022

BACK AT PRACTICE FRIDAY

Hronek (concussion protocol) is back at practice and wearing a regular jersey, Helene St. James of the Detroit Free Press reports.

ANALYSIS

Hronek left Wednesday's game in the first period after he was rocked by a Ryan Reaves hit, and did not return. Hronek has been the Red Wings' best offensive defenseman, scoring six times and adding 18 assists in 29 games. He could return Saturday against Ottawa.

 

Dec 14, 2022

IN CONCUSSION PROTOCOL

Hronek is in the concussion protocol following Wednesday's game versus the Wild, Helene St. James of the Detroit Free Press reports.

ANALYSIS

Hronek was hit hard by Ryan Reaves early in the first period. Given the nature of concussions, a clear timeline for Hronek's turn likely won't be available until he resumes hockey activities.

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, flickyoursedin said:

Here’s hoping BPA and positional value meet like the Quinn Hughes draft.

Reinbacher got injured today at the WC’s. IMHAO either him or ASP will be there for us at 11. 

[Ghostsof1915]

2 hours ago, flickyoursedin said:

Just please don’t trade it to move out salary.

Which is worse?

Trading our first to shed salary?

Or Buyout of OEL?

Or Heaven forbid. Both.

[Elias Pettersson]

1 hour ago, Gurn said:

https://www.capfriendly.com/injury/players/filip-hronek

"

Dec. 14, 2022

 

 Filip Hronek has a concussion. The expected duration is unknown."

 

note the other injuries.

https://detroithockeynow.com/2021/10/24/red-wings-hronek-healthy-scratch-against-habs/

"

Filip Hronek took a seat on Saturday. As the defenseman watched, the Detroit Red Wings took it on the chin from the Montreal Canadiens.

Hronek was a healthy scratch for the Red Wings’ 6-1 loss to the Canadiens at the Bell Centre. After the game, Red Wings coach Jeff Blashill acknowledged that health wasn’t an issue for Hronek.

“Coach’s decision,”Blashill said of Hronek’s absence from the lineup. “Just a decision.

“I said we got 8 D that I think are NHL defensemen. I made the decision to put Stech (Troy Stecher) in. Somebody has to come out.”

 

 

The game he got hit by Reaves, he was put in concussion protocol.  He never actually got a concussion, as confirmed by a beat writer from Detroit who was on Dhali and Donnie and they asked him about it.  I watched the episode.  Hronek literally played in the very next game, played almost 24 minutes and scored a goal...

 

Hronek never missed a game this year, so not sure what you are referring to.  Are you referring to last year when the whole team stunk and they decided to sit Hronek for one game, just like Kuzmenko, a 39-goal scorer also sat out for a game this year?

Edited May 14, 2023 by Elias Pettersson

[Gawdzukes]

3 hours ago, Gurn said:

Miller's deal hasn't even kicked in yet, and he's already trending downward. Maybe it is a 'team friendly' deal for the first 2-3 years, but the end of contract is going to either cripple the team, or cost a ton to get rid of.

Letting Brock walk, for nothing, or now having to give up draft picks AND players to make cap space- which would be better to do?

 

New shiny management, always looks better than old management.

 

Key word "looks"; doesn't mean IS better- and even if it is better- it may not be good enough.

 

A lot of short term planning going on, in the management and fan ranks.

"Who cares about 3 years from now"  "I'll just put this on my credit card and make the minimum payments for the next 10 years"

"what could possibly go wrong with that?"

 

 

I was very vocal against re-signing Miller but I have come around a little bit. I won't say it 100

percent won't work out. At least he is a genuine top 6 where we are lacking quality and depth. On the Canucks I would only keep the following players for sure and be looking to upgrade the rest.

 

Kuzmenko Petterson x

x Miller x

Mikeyhev x x

x x x

Hoglander, Podkolzin

 

Hughes x

x Hronek

x x

Petterson

Hirose

 

Demko

Silovs

 

Beauvillier, Joshua, Aman, DiGuiseppe, Burroughs, Wolanin, Brisbois, are serviceable but also could definitely be upgraded on. Boeser, Garland, OEL, Bear, Studnicka, shot to the moon. The problem with Miller remains time. If we pull a rabbit out of the hat and compete next year we should get a high contribution from JT. However, what happens if we're not good until 3 years from now, will he be in sharp decline already? It was a big gamble with bad odds so we'll see. Hopefully it's all systems go sooner than later. Exactly like you said though, very short term planning.