11th overall pick in the 2023 Entry Draft

[JamesB]

8 hours ago, spook007 said:

...

 

Mikheyev - Petterson - Kuzmenko

Garland - Miller - Boeser

Joshua - Aman - Hogs

Di Guiseppe - Kalsson - Podz

Raty/Bains

 

Hughes - $3-5M

OEL - Hronek

Wolanin - Poolman or Schenn

Hirose - Brisebois

 

Demko

Silovs

Reasonable prediction for how the team might look to start the 2024-25 season based on players currently in the system. Both Petey and Hronek are still team-controlled for that year and will be here barring a big trade.

 

I think the biggest question marks are as follows:

 

1. I am not convinced that Aman will be adequate at 3C. The fact that he made the team this year is a good story, but he was not that good and deserved to be sent down to Abby. He was better when he came back but I think it is a stretch to think of him as a 3C. If he is a good 4C that would be a win.

 

2. Karlsson does not appear to be a good enough skater to play C even in the AHL, let alone the NHL. He has been playing on the wing in Abby and I think it is very unlikely he becomes an NHL center, even at 4C.  I think that Raty and and Sasson have already passed him on the depth chart at center. And I think it is likely that the Canucks will pick up another center next summer at the latest.

 

3. Everyone loves Schenn but there is no guarantee that he re-signs with the Canucks. Someone else will outbid the Canucks this summer and Schenn is not getting any younger in any case. And the odds have to be better than 50-50 that Poolman never plays for the Canucks again. This is another positive the Canucks will probably try to upgrade before the start of the 2024-25 season.Will be interesting to see how McWard progresses. And I would not rule out drafting a D this year who could play on the Canucks in his Draft + 2 season (Reinbacher or ASP). (Or they might draft a center who could play in his Draft + 2 season.)

[spook007]

40 minutes ago, JamesB said:

Reasonable prediction for how the team might look to start the 2024-25 season based on players currently in the system. Both Petey and Hronek are still team-controlled for that year and will be here barring a big trade.

 

I think the biggest question marks are as follows:

 

1. I am not convinced that Aman will be adequate at 3C. The fact that he made the team this year is a good story, but he was not that good and deserved to be sent down to Abby. He was better when he came back but I think it is a stretch to think of him as a 3C. If he is a good 4C that would be a win.

 

2. Karlsson does not appear to be a good enough skater to play C even in the AHL, let alone the NHL. He has been playing on the wing in Abby and I think it is very unlikely he becomes an NHL center, even at 4C.  I think that Raty and and Sasson have already passed him on the depth chart at center. And I think it is likely that the Canucks will pick up another center next summer at the latest.

 

3. Everyone loves Schenn but there is no guarantee that he re-signs with the Canucks. Someone else will outbid the Canucks this summer and Schenn is not getting any younger in any case. And the odds have to be better than 50-50 that Poolman never plays for the Canucks again. This is another positive the Canucks will probably try to upgrade before the start of the 2024-25 season.Will be interesting to see how McWard progresses. And I would not rule out drafting a D this year who could play on the Canucks in his Draft + 2 season (Reinbacher or ASP). (Or they might draft a center who could play in his Draft + 2 season.)

I think you are spot James. 
I don't see Aman being more than a 4C, but it was just set the team up from within. 
I think Raty eventually will be a 3C but think the start of the 24-25 season will be to early for him. Karlsson very likely a winger if he makes it at all. Sasson is the wild card. 
if they continue from within Dries is still there but an upgrade on 3C would be advantageous. But its about $...

Schenn is a no brainer, if he wants to come, but still only for little money. A 2 year contract may tempt him (he is not getting any younger). He may be off somewhere else, and then so be it. 
Woo may continue his progression and be a pleasant surprise on the right hand side of the D. 
I will not shed a tear, if Poolman doesn't play another game for us, but adding him to the line up, was worst case scenario with his cap hit. 
 

The whole thing James was, that while are cap situation is far from ideal, it can be managed without having to give up assets (or at least major assets). 
Hope to trade away a winger or two, but if it isn't possible. We don't need to pay out big draft picks or prospects to stay compliant. 
 

This management seems to be taking a lot of flack, for the few moves they've done to improve the most glaring problems of this team. 
 

Rome wasn't built in a day, and unfortunately untangling the Benning net, is so easy... hopefully they'll get there eventually. 

[grandmaster]

It really bothers me that some folks are talking about sending our 11OA for a Cap dump or as a sweetener to unload inefficient contracts.

 

This 11OA has the potential to be more of a star player than previous drafts due to the top 10 or so being so loaded with talent since 2017.
 

I say hell no. Keep the pick and if you have to, go with the same lineup. We can easily become Cap compliant without a dump.

 

The team will also be better regardless with Hronek and Mik being there all season. I’m sure we also won’t have a slow start again. Dem will not be injured and JT, Petey and Hughes will be strong from the get go.

 

I honestly believe we could be like the Panthers right now. Just show up and anything can happen. Be hot at the right time, be lucky with injuries and bada bing bada boom baby! 

[Alflives]

10 minutes ago, grandmaster said:

It really bothers me that some folks are talking about sending our 11OA for a Cap dump or as a sweetener to unload inefficient contracts.

 

This 11OA has the potential to be more of a star player than previous drafts due to the top 10 or so being so loaded with talent since 2017.
 

I say hell no. Keep the pick and if you have to, go with the same lineup. We can easily become Cap compliant without a dump.

 

The team will also be better regardless with Hronek and Mik being there all season. I’m sure we also won’t have a slow start again. Dem will not be injured and JT, Petey and Hughes will be strong from the get go.

 

I honestly believe we could be like the Panthers right now. Just show up and anything can happen. Be hot at the right time, be lucky with injuries and bada bing bada boom baby! 

I could see us trading down if ASP is there at 11 and a club drafting 15-20 (that has another later first or a couple seconds) deals with us because they covet getting ASP. 

[Gawdzukes]

17 hours ago, spook007 said:

I actually just used yours.. the roster spots, you set up... Think a top 4ish Dman is possible at 3-5 target.
Atm we have Baer playing for $1.8M, double that amount or almost treble, would be enough to find another player able to play top 4 position.... At the moment and for another year we have Hronek playing for $4.4M, so...  But if we can't afford that, we can wait to the year after, when Brock or Kuz are off the pay role.

Ideally Poolman is history, but if we can't trade him or buy him out, he may still be around. 

Paying $7.2M for a D-man who has struggled is not good, but wonder how much was due to injury and how much was in order to babysit Myers.

 

Here goes:

 

Kuz - Petey -  Mika / (Hogs)

 Garland/ (De Giuseppe/Joshua)- Miller - Brock (maybe Lekkerimaki after another year can take over from Brock, when his contract is up although doubt it)

Joshua/(Garland) - Aman - Podz/(Mika/Hogs)

De Giuseppe/(Bains) - Raty or Karlsson - Hogs (Podz)

 

QH - 3-5 Dman

OEL - Hronek

Wolanin/( Hirose/D-Petey(ig he is ready ) - Schenn ((if they can shift Poolman or buy him out )(alternatives Brisebois/Juulsen/Woo/Johanson if he is ready in another year)

 

Demko

Silovs

 

That should keep the money below the mark. If the 3rd/4th line players wants bigger increases, there are other to take, either from within or else where. 

Ideally we shift Garland and/or Brock, but if we can't we are still able to stay within the cap.

 

So shortened down:

 

Mikheyev - Petterson - Kuzmenko

Garland - Miller - Boeser

Joshua - Aman - Hogs

Di Guiseppe - Kalsson - Podz

Raty/Bains

 

Hughes - $3-5M

OEL - Hronek

Wolanin - Poolman or Schenn

Hirose - Brisebois

 

Demko

Silovs

I've been saying for 5 years we won't be competitive until Myers is off the books. Since they have just kept spending foolishly it's changed to until we get rid of Garland and Boeser.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Gawdzukes said:

I've been saying for 5 years we won't be competitive until Myers is off the books. Since they have just kept spending foolishly it's changed to until we get rid of Garland and Boeser.

Boeser is fine. And so is Garland. The two killers are Myers and OEL. 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

8 hours ago, spook007 said:

I think you are spot James. 
I don't see Aman being more than a 4C, but it was just set the team up from within. 
I think Raty eventually will be a 3C but think the start of the 24-25 season will be to early for him. Karlsson very likely a winger if he makes it at all. Sasson is the wild card. 
if they continue from within Dries is still there but an upgrade on 3C would be advantageous. But its about $...

Schenn is a no brainer, if he wants to come, but still only for little money. A 2 year contract may tempt him (he is not getting any younger). He may be off somewhere else, and then so be it. 
Woo may continue his progression and be a pleasant surprise on the right hand side of the D. 
I will not shed a tear, if Poolman doesn't play another game for us, but adding him to the line up, was worst case scenario with his cap hit. 
 

The whole thing James was, that while are cap situation is far from ideal, it can be managed without having to give up assets (or at least major assets). 
Hope to trade away a winger or two, but if it isn't possible. We don't need to pay out big draft picks or prospects to stay compliant. 
 

This management seems to be taking a lot of flack, for the few moves they've done to improve the most glaring problems of this team. 
 

Rome wasn't built in a day, and unfortunately untangling the Benning net, is so easy... hopefully they'll get there eventually. 

Hey Aaron Rome wasn't that bad outside of one late hit by a millisecond.

 

Those types of players that Jim Benning *FAILED* completely to acquire.  Not that Aaron Rome was anything special.  If anything, he was easily replacable (a depth defenseman).  Problem was Jim Benning signed guys like Poolman for several million on term.  Aaron Rome *NEVER* got a contract from the Canucks for over a million (highest was an amount that could be completely buried in the AHL).  Benning was more than solid in setting up a team for future success (revamping the *amateur* scouting department with huge success) but was completely lost on how to support those elite prospects with a good (and cheap) supporting cast.  Schenn was an exception but unfortunately he was the rare example of the pro scouting department doing its job.

Edited May 13, 2023 by NewbieCanuckFan

[Gawdzukes]

15 hours ago, spook007 said:

The line up is based on a year from now, when Peteys contract is being renewed, not this summer. 
 

By then Beau is off the books, and Aman is one year further in his development just like Karlsson, Raty and Bains. 

The question was, if the team could fit in under the cap a year from now, without having to pay others to take players like Boeser, Garland or Poolman off our hands...

 

I proved that we could so so without problems. If our own players aren't deemed good enough or ready in a years time, they'll find other that are...

Raty may be able the play C by then, Maybe Kalsson or Seisson, or maybe even Klim that I actually forgot about as well. 
 

The whole point is, that we are not over the cap or in cap hell, even though its not ideal. 
We don't have to give sweetners to off load Players like Boeser, Garland or Beau, if we don't want to. 
 

As for how good the bottom lines are, well if we run with Petey, Miller, Kuz, Mika and Brock on the two top lines and we have QH, Hronek, OEL and want to add another $3-5M rhd, as well as Demko, we need to make savings some where. 
Until Garland or Brock or Beau and Poolman gets dumped we can't afford both more improvement on D and a better bottom 6 (3C in particular). 
 

I think in essence you have actually proved we are in cap hell. I guess it might be semantics here. Sure, we can ice a team. However, it's not anywhere close to winning anything or even making the playoffs. It's a garbage team because we can't afford good players, it's littered with hopes and dreams, and has players that are immovable without sweeteners. That's the definition of cap hell. It's not the end of the world, and it's possible to get out of. But we're definitely in it.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

5 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

I think in essence you have actually proved we are in cap hell. I guess it might be semantics here. Sure, we can ice a team. However, it's not anywhere close to winning anything or even making the playoffs. It's a garbage team because we can't afford good players, it's littered with hopes and dreams, and has players that are immovable without sweeteners. That's the definition of cap hell. It's not the end of the world, and it's possible to get out of. But we're definitely in it.

Myers & OEL on the blueline with their cap hits exceeding the Sedins cap hit means there's only so much Hughes to balance out those two sacks of ****.  Another great parting gift from Jim Benning.

Edited May 13, 2023 by NewbieCanuckFan

[Hairy Kneel]

Myer's in his contract year is going to be playing for a contract. He might actually play well. 

[Gawdzukes]

27 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Boeser is fine. And so is Garland. The two killers are Myers and OEL. 

That's more true but Garland and Boeser also suck and will be the reason the forwards and D can't be upgraded. They are both 3rd liners we don't want making top 6 money and that 11 mil should be going towards positions we need to upgrade.

[grandmaster]

7 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

That's more true but Garland and Boeser also suck and will be the reason the forwards and D can't be upgraded. They are both 3rd liners we don't want making top 6 money and that 11 mil should be going towards positions we need to upgrade.

Garland was marginally on an inefficient contract. Brock was far worse based on his salary. Regardless we are not in Cap Hell like you say. We will be Cap compliant. There is no need to sell with sweeteners. We can go as is with the addition of Hronek as a top 4 defender and Mik being on the team as a top 6 forward. Both decent upgrades and an uninjured Dem will prove us to be a top 3. Pacific Division team.

[McBackup]

1 hour ago, grandmaster said:

It really bothers me that some folks are talking about sending our 11OA for a Cap dump or as a sweetener to unload inefficient contracts.

Unfortunately that is the reality of the cap mess the Canucks have found themselves in. For all the talk of shedding money, this management group has done nothing but add it.

 

Quote

This 11OA has the potential to be more of a star player than previous drafts due to the top 10 or so being so loaded with talent since 2017.

Ehh I've heard mixed reports on it. A lot of people say outside the top 4 prospects who are franchise level players, the rest of the draft looks pretty average.

 

At the end of the day, the draft is a crapshoot like any other, and we won't know until ~5 years from now.

 

Quote

I say hell no. Keep the pick and if you have to, go with the same lineup. We can easily become Cap compliant without a dump.

I'm not advocating they trade the pick but what is your solution to "easily" fix the team's cap situation? They've also decided to push all their chips in towards making the playoffs like next season, which is extra difficult if you're returning with the same lineup.

 

Quote

The team will also be better regardless with Hronek and Mik being there all season. I’m sure we also won’t have a slow start again. Dem will not be injured and JT, Petey and Hughes will be strong from the get go.

In theory yes. The teams around us will be getting better as well though and you cannot account for injuries.

 

Quote

 

I honestly believe we could be like the Panthers right now. Just show up and anything can happen. Be hot at the right time, be lucky with injuries and bada bing bada boom baby! 

 

We could. We also could end up just like the Islanders or Winnipeg, and I think that's far more likely than us getting hot and going on a run. There's a reason what the Panthers are doing is gaining so much attention, it's because its unprecedented. People seem to forget the Panthers won the President's Trophy last year, and made the playoffs the previous 3 years as well. They're a good team that underperformed during the regular season, not some plucky underdog that scratched and clawed their way in after playing bigger than the sum of their parts.

 

I really hate this mentality that we should "just try to make it in and anything can happen". "Anything" is far, far more likely to mean a first round exit, or maybe winning a round before bouncing out than it is a cup run to the final. The goal should be to build a long term, cup competitive team. 

[BPA]

Maybe TO will be desperate and OEL will waive his NMC.

 

Nylander for OEL + 1st.

 

[McBackup]

1 minute ago, BPA said:

Maybe TO will be desperate and OEL will waive his NMC.

 

Nylander for OEL + 1st.

 

Well if we're fantasizing about unlikely scenarios, I'd rather we move OEL and our first for a player who doesn't double flamingo and has more than one year left.

[higgyfan]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

I could see us trading down if ASP is there at 11 and a club drafting 15-20 (that has another later first or a couple seconds) deals with us because they covet getting ASP. 

My dream come true would be Richie and Strbak.  PA gets that done, I forgive the team not tanking enough

to stay in the top 8.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

11 minutes ago, BPA said:

Maybe TO will be desperate and OEL will waive his NMC.

 

Nylander for OEL + 1st.

 

Well I suspect the GM's job will soon be open in Toronto.  Maybe they'll hire Jim Benning to revamp their pro scouting department & be their GM.  He's the guy that traded for OEL & signed Myers & Poolman.  Maybe he'll want to re-acquire them.

Edited May 13, 2023 by NewbieCanuckFan

[grandmaster]

17 minutes ago, McBackup said:

Unfortunately that is the reality of the cap mess the Canucks have found themselves in. For all the talk of shedding money, this management group has done nothing but add it.

 

Ehh I've heard mixed reports on it. A lot of people say outside the top 4 prospects who are franchise level players, the rest of the draft looks pretty average.

 

At the end of the day, the draft is a crapshoot like any other, and we won't know until ~5 years from now.

 

I'm not advocating they trade the pick but what is your solution to "easily" fix the team's cap situation? They've also decided to push all their chips in towards making the playoffs like next season, which is extra difficult if you're returning with the same lineup.

 

In theory yes. The teams around us will be getting better as well though and you cannot account for injuries.

 

We could. We also could end up just like the Islanders or Winnipeg, and I think that's far more likely than us getting hot and going on a run. There's a reason what the Panthers are doing is gaining so much attention, it's because its unprecedented. People seem to forget the Panthers won the President's Trophy last year, and made the playoffs the previous 3 years as well. They're a good team that underperformed during the regular season, not some plucky underdog that scratched and clawed their way in after playing bigger than the sum of their parts.

 

I really hate this mentality that we should "just try to make it in and anything can happen". "Anything" is far, far more likely to mean a first round exit, or maybe winning a round before bouncing out than it is a cup run to the final. The goal should be to build a long term, cup competitive team. 

We had no business making the Finals in 82 and 94. We were a fringe playoff team. It happens all the time. The Panthers were terrible during the regular season but like I said, regular season means nothing other than getting into the playoffs. We just got to make it to that “next season”

 

 

Edited May 13, 2023 by grandmaster

[McBackup]

6 minutes ago, grandmaster said:

We had no business making the Finals in 82 and 94. We were a fringe playoff team. It happens all the time. The Panthers were terrible during the regular season but like I said, regular season means nothing other than getting into the playoffs. We just got to make it to that “next season”

 

 

So your solution is to just keep shooting for mediocrity and hoping the stars align instead of trying to build a consistent competitor. 

[Phat Fingers]

On 5/8/2023 at 11:16 PM, KyGuy123 said:

I hope so but after the top 9 it seems like a bunch of wingers are in the next tier. With RHD being such an important position I think he’s hard to pass up after his U18 tournament.

IMO, wee would be insane not too take one of the two, should they be available.

 

Personally ASP plays like a Hughes 2.0 with a way more solid core and can hit with effect.

 

Reinbacher is a more prototypical NHL D man with a great outlet feed.

 

They are almost the same weight but Reinbacher is 3 inches taller.

 

ASP on the Right Side with Ep40 and Hughes, Miller and one of our dozen wingers would be a devastating PP.

 

devastating.