Cap… Wait it out a year or pay a price to make space?

[Coconuts]

Where do you think the Canucks have themselves pegged for next season? For divisional spots alone you're jockeying with a cup contender in Vegas, a team that fancies themselves a contender in Edmonton, a team that's made the playoffs the past two years in LA, a Seattle team that almost made the conference final, and a Calgary team that should realistically perform better if they win even a handful more of their one goal games. Two of these teams will likely be jockeying for wildcard spots as well. 

 

Does paying to move cap out really improve their odds by that much? Or are we better suited to ride it out and hope that what may largely be the same group can simply perform better under new coaching staff? 

[chon derry]

8 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

Where do you think the Canucks have themselves pegged for next season? For divisional spots alone you're jockeying with a cup contender in Vegas, a team that fancies themselves a contender in Edmonton, a team that's made the playoffs the past two years in LA, a Seattle team that almost made the conference final, and a Calgary team that should realistically perform better if they win even a handful more of their one goal games. Two of these teams will likely be jockeying for wildcard spots as well. 

 

Does paying to move cap out really improve their odds by that much? Or are we better suited to ride it out and hope that what may largely be the same group can simply perform better under new coaching staff? 

Well there certainly wasn’t any quit in their play. Couple that with some key players out I expect them to continue having success against Seattle and vegas. A wildcard spot isn’t out of the realm of possibility 

[24K PureCool]

Always wait it out. Not waiting is what got us into this OEL mess.

[aGENT]

Personally I hope we kind of do both.

 

"Bjorkstrand" either (or both) of Garland/Beau for a couple picks to give us some breathing room. Works fine even if we take some cap back so long as it's players we need more than redundant, small, mid 6 wingers (depth/PK D, C's, gritty/fast/physical bottom 6 wingers etc).

 

From there, if something's out there to move Myers (post bonus), or someone wants a late pick/depth prospect to take Pearson, Poolman etc...great, otherwise just wait them out.

[-AJ-]

Honestly, I can bear missing the playoff next year for a better 2024-25 season. Just do our best with what we have in 2023-24 and see how it goes, but look at going big in 2024-25 depending on how 2023-24 goes.

[ilduce39]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

I don't see us adding any sweeteners to deals, however there is now a possibility of a buyout to free up cap space.  

 

If I had to guess I would say that Beauvillier would be the guy getting bought out.  The buyout number is reasonable and frees up almost $2.8 million in cap space this year.  We would have a $1.4 million cap hit for next year, so it's not ideal but probably is the best option of the bunch.  I don't see any other way to free up almost $3 million in cap space without adding a sweetener.  The other option is to try and trade a forward with term for a Dman with term or for a 3C, so money in, money out.

 

I also think we are keeping our pick at 11.  There are lots of options with that pick and we will get a good player...

All 3 of our wingers for sale are (relatively) buyout friendly - though I’m glad it remains a last resort. Really hoping we can just make a hockey trade to fill 3C/ D.

 

With that being said.. if a good player is available for cheap due to cap crunch I hope the buyout is in play. 

[mll]

1 minute ago, Coconuts said:

Making big moves doesn't guarantee they'd be a playoff team either. I reckon we'll be a fringe team jockeying for a wildcard spot or the last divisional spot. Realistically we're not going to jump from drafting 11OA to the Stanley Cup finals within a year. 

 

It also depends on what you consider a wasted season. Would just missing the playoffs be a waste if the team takes steps forward and shows they can be consistently competitive? Considering where we've been most of the past decade one could argue that even being in the mix for a playoff spot most of the season would be a step forward. 

There's the intermediary step of simply becoming a regular playoff team and building that playoff experience before even thinking of contending/making the finals.  There are great regular season teams that don't do all that well in the playoffs - need to make the playoffs to know if they are building a team that can win.  

 

It's letting management get off easy.   It's progress but just not sufficient for the trades they've made, the deals they've signed.  

 

There's no guarantee whichever direction they go.  

[Coconuts]

7 minutes ago, chon derry said:

Well there certainly wasn’t any quit in their play. Couple that with some key players out I expect them to continue having success against Seattle and vegas. A wildcard spot isn’t out of the realm of possibility 

It's not, but realistically we're not hopping straight from 11OA to contention within a year. With a new head coach this is going to be more of a transition season any way you spin it anyway. If some folks can maintain their level of play while others elevate theirs we could probably be at least in the mix for a wildcard as structured, I question how much benefit would stem from paying to make larger movers when we can be patient and make those larger moves next offseason or in the foreseeable future.

 

If we were a contender I'd understand paying to shake things up but we haven't been anywhere near that level since the early 2010's. I'd stay the course and see how this group can do as largely structured. If Demko can play closer to his norm and we largely stay healthy we could likely be competitive as structured. I'm not interested in paying a premium to move pieces out because folks are impatient. 

Edited June 4, 2023 by Coconuts

[Coconuts]

6 minutes ago, mll said:

There's the intermediary step of simply becoming a regular playoff team and building that playoff experience before even thinking of contending/making the finals.  There are great regular season teams that don't do all that well in the playoffs - need to make the playoffs to know if they are building a team that can win.  

 

It's letting management get off easy.   It's progress but just not sufficient for the trades they've made, the deals they've signed.  

 

There's no guarantee whichever direction they go.  

Agreed, but I'm less sold on making the playoffs being absolutely essential within this next single season. If we can demonstrate that we can be consistently competitive and be in the mix for a playoff spot I'd consider that an encouraging sign and look to bolster the lineup more significantly next offseason or the offseason after. Realistically if we're looking at UFA's or trades we're always going to have to compete with other organizations anyway. 

 

Yes and no. Results aren't guaranteed next season regardless of what they do but if we, say.. hold on to picks and prospects as opposed to moving players out we're guaranteed to be able to pick players for our prospect pool. We're guaranteed to get a shot at an excellent prospect at 11OA, we're not guaranteed to get the UFA management wants if we flip picks out to clear space or guaranteed to beat out other teams for trade targets.

Edited June 4, 2023 by Coconuts

[chon derry]

5 minutes ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

I think it's also important to note that change requires adjustment time, and it takes time also for players to build on-ice rapport with each other (ie. some people call this chemistry, but while chemistry can be instantaneous, this runs much deeper than that - it includes trust and knowing each other's thoughts).

 

This is a year where attrition as an outcome of team composition and building rapport makes more sense.  Let the contracts expire instead of forcing something that isn't going to help us much in the short term and will hinder us in the long term.

Mikhyev and hronek both coming back possibly a healthier OEL and 1 more season with Meyers before he’s feasibly moved I’m a little more optimistic than last year. 

[Ted Lasso]

With Pearson and Poolman starting on LTIR, what’s the best (cap compliant) lineup we can ice without any trades? 
 

Kuz - Petey - Beauvillier
Mikheyev - Miller - Boeser

Podkolzin - Joshua - Garland

DiGiuseppe - Åman - Studnicka

 

Hughes - Bear

OEL - Hronek

Wolanin - Myers

 

Demko

Martin

[Alflives]

59 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

Meh he was more of a legitimate NHL middle six winger. Problem with guy like Beau is if he is not scoring, not playing great D and isn’t a PKer he isn’t likely to have a long career.  18-20g isn’t going to keep a small winger in the league for long if he doesn’t turn into a pest and penalty killer as well. 

So even though new Beau has proven to better than old Bo, and at less than half this cap allocation, he isn’t good enough to help us? Plus, he’s only 25 so just now entering his prime years. Seems like Allvin took Lou Lam to the woodshed on this deal. 

[Elias Pettersson]

1 hour ago, grandmaster said:

Beau does not need to be bought out. He is a legit top 6 forward and brought good energy to this team. I’m so against this. 
 

Rather not make any further changes and go with what we already have. There were a lot of moves all throughout last year. Let’s just sit with the roster and hope RT has them still going from the start.

Beau is a legit top 6 forward?  Since when did that happen?  He was literally a cap dump in order to facilitate a Horvat trade. 
 

He pumped his numbers up playing a few weeks with Petey.  He had 40 points last year which was his best year ever.  That doesn’t make him a legit top 6 forward. 40 points is a 3rd liner. 

[chon derry]

11 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

Agreed, but I'm less sold on making the playoffs being absolutely essential within this next single season. If we can demonstrate that we can be consistently competitive and be in the mix for a playoff spot I'd consider that an encouraging sign and look to bolster the lineup more significantly next offseason or the offseason after. Realistically if we're looking at UFA's or trades we're always going to have to compete with other organizations anyway. 

 

Yes and no. Results aren't guaranteed next season regardless of what they do but if we, say.. hold on to picks and prospects as opposed to moving players out we're guaranteed to be able to pick players for our prospect pool. We're guaranteed to get a shot at an excellent prospect at 11OA, we're not guaranteed to get the UFA management wants if we flip picks out to clear space or guaranteed to beat out other teams for trade targets.

The end goal is to make the playoffs period. it’s why they never tanked ,had dempko been heathy and the team given a proper preseason to aclimitize , which is something they didn’t do. Things could have been different. But over analyzing doesn’t or shouldn’t change that. I think your down playing the significance of the ability to get to the playoffs. That shouldn’t be thought as not important any given year. Even if it’s 1 round and out, which is likely. At the very least they go out knowing a little more of what it’s going to take for the following year not only from a player standpoint but coach’s and management as well. Don’t ever underscore the importance of just getting there. 

[Alflives]

Just now, Elias Pettersson said:

Beau is a legit top 6 forward?  Since when did that happen?  He was literally a cap dump in order to facilitate a Horvat trade. 
 

He pumped his numbers up playing a few weeks with Petey.  He had 40 points last year which was his best year ever.  That doesn’t make him a legit top 6 forward. 40 points is a 3rd liner. 

What do old Bo’s stats make him? An elephant?

New Beau is absolutely a light top six forward. He’s 25. Just entering his prime.

[Elias Pettersson]

20 minutes ago, Kenny Powers said:

With Pearson and Poolman starting on LTIR, what’s the best (cap compliant) lineup we can ice without any trades? 
 

Kuz - Petey - Beauvillier
Mikheyev - Miller - Boeser

Podkolzin - Joshua - Garland

DiGiuseppe - Åman - Studnicka

 

Hughes - Bear

OEL - Hronek

Wolanin - Myers

 

Demko

Martin

We’re not making the playoffs with that lineup. No way Tocchet is going to accept that as the opening day roster. That team is softer than a baby’s bottom. Changes will be made. 

[Ted Lasso]

2 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

We’re not making the playoffs with that lineup. No way Tocchet is going to accept that as the opening day roster. That team is softer than a baby’s bottom. Changes will be made. 

Was thinking Khaira might make a cheap 4th line add. Hometown sandpaper

Edited June 4, 2023 by Kenny Powers

[chon derry]

4 minutes ago, Alflives said:

What do old Bo’s stats make him? An elephant?

 

A greedy elephant who may or may not like his new zoo. 

[DrJockitch]

4 minutes ago, Alflives said:

What do old Bo’s stats make him? An elephant?

New Beau is absolutely a light top six forward. He’s 25. Just entering his prime.

A multi time 30+ goal scorer who plays all situations vs a small sub 20g scoring winger that doesn’t PK, sometimes makes the second PP and wasn’t trusted by RT in defensive situations.

Come now Alf you have some hot-takes but that is just silly. 
Beau is a player who looked good as a rookie, got a contract based on the presumption of growth and then didn’t grow.  He is a quicker, smaller Brock without the 20+goal seasons 

[Elias Pettersson]

1 hour ago, Kenny Powers said:

Agree PA will find a way to be active, even if we don’t like the price. What kind of moves do you predict we’ll see? Giving up some of our mid rounders this year to dump a contract?

I think we will try and move money on for money out. If we move Beauvillier we would need to take money back. Same with Garland. If we can move one of those two for either a Dman or a 3C then we shouldn’t have enough cap space to add a 4th line winger and another Dman as long as Pearson and Poolman are on LTIR. 
 

If Allvin swings for the fences then 100% our 11OA pick would be on play.