[Rumour] Canucks interested in Carson Soucy

[Baratheon]

2 minutes ago, N7Nucks said:

Yes, but it's no secret that height has an affect. There's a reason Jon Jones was an absolute animal at light heavyweight, he was bigger and faster than everyone else. Conor McGregor dominated lower weight classes as well because of his taller frame. Height allows for adding more weight without losing speed. Bisping mentioned that George St Pierre looked slower at middleweight than welterweight. Cause it was harder for GSP to support that weight on a smaller frame. There's a reason taller fighters opt to fight in lower weight classes than they should. McGregor fought at featherweight and looked pretty gross not gonna lie, but he was dominating cause he was 5'9. For reference the current featherweight champ, Volkanovski, is 5'6.

 

But that's two different sports. So height matters more in fighting cause reach advantage can change the dynamics of a fight more than reach advantage can affect hockey. Myers has major reach advantage on most players but is still kinda garbage defensively. He's a glorified pylon some nights.

Oh for sure.  I wasn't meaning to imply that height is meaningless.  Just using combat sports as a frame of reference.  Weight is just the more important factor.  Particularly when "adding size" means hitting/toughness to most people.

 

Imagine if they made Nick Diaz vs Mark Hunt back in the day.  Then tried to sell you on Nick's height, reach and speed advantage. 

[JeremyCuddles]

1 minute ago, eeeeergh said:

The tall guys are sometimes built like sticks

And they end up like Bambi on skates

 

Hoglander is built like a fridge

 

Imagine pushing a fridge down an icy surface, once it gets momentum, get out of the way b/c its going right through you

 

 

Yeah, Hogs is an animal. It's an annoying cliche, but he has that dog in him. Lol. Guy works hard, plays hard, and is literally borderline immovable object. He's shifty too, so even if you can overpower him he'd be able to get around you. He's definitely one of my fav players and I really hope he has a resurgence this season. Another over-said phrase, but I do feel like he should be a Tocchet type of player.

[Angry Goose]

1 hour ago, Baratheon said:

Height is an odd fixation with hockey fans.  Anyone who has spent time following combat sports knows that there's no such thing as a heightclass.  Fighters are separated by weight for a reason.

As a former competitive amateur boxer for 10+ years, I can safely say height does make a difference.  

 

A shorter fighter has to make all sorts of adjustments and depending on how skilled/competitive your opponent is, it’s no ez cakewalk.

 

Now take weight classes out of the equation, like in hockey.

 

All things being equal, shorter guys (usually) have to work harder.  The advantage (usually) of shorter guys is agility/mobility, but fighting through the advantage taller players have is not easy.  

 

So one hand I think you want a mix of both, but it definitely also comes down to the compete level of each individual as well. 

 

 

[Baratheon]

3 minutes ago, Angry Goose said:

As a former competitive amateur boxer for 10+ years, I can safely say height does make a difference.  

 

A shorter fighter has to make all sorts of adjustments and depending on how skilled/competitive your opponent is, it’s no ez cakewalk.

 

Now take weight classes out of the equation, like in hockey.

 

All things being equal, shorter guys (usually) have to work harder.  The advantage (usually) of shorter guys is agility/mobility, but fighting through the advantage taller players have is not easy.  

 

So one hand I think you want a mix of both, but it definitely also comes down to the compete level of each individual as well. 

 

 

No doubt.  Just a rough example as I said.  

 

You're right and I'd love to have some beverages and yack to all of you for hours about the sweet science lol.  Just saying that there is a reason why fighters are separated by weight.  

If we could use Doc Brown's time machine to have Tommy Hearns fight with Mike Tyson I know who I would pick.

[Angry Goose]

17 minutes ago, Baratheon said:

No doubt.  Just a rough example as I said.  

 

You're right and I'd love to have some beverages and yack to all of you for hours about the sweet science lol.  Just saying that there is a reason why fighters are separated by weight.  

If we could use Doc Brown's time machine to have Tommy Hearns fight with Mike Tyson I know who I would pick.

If you follow boxing at all, definitely chime in the [boxing] thread in off topic!

[BC_Hawk]

2 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

True. Start at the top, ensuring that Hughes is paired with a long-term partner. That makes the most sense. The last thing Quinn needs is a revolving door of defensive partners. 

Yes, I'm more behind potentially overspending on $ and/or term to get QH a long term partner; we can then look to fill the 2nd pair LHD long term answer with Myer's $ in 2024. Let's just use 23/24 to develop some of our younger guys. IF Soucy is willing to do a 1-2 year deal in the 3m range with the opportunity to play on 2nd pair for the year, great. But, UNLESS opportunity knocks, I'm OK with the following for the year:

 

Hughes- FA/Trade

Brisbouis/Burroughs/???-Hronek

Hirose-Myers

[IBatch]

On 6/20/2023 at 3:15 PM, Eddie said:

Here comes poolman 2.0 

 

Fine with a sensible raise and sensible contract but if they blow the bank on this guy they're gonna regret it.

 

 

Lol.  He's nothing like Poolboy.    Did you watch him tune our guys every time we were in their zone when in MIN?  To me, he was MIN best D in the bubble.   I'd be surprised if Seattle doesn't re-sign him,  but maybe they want Graves hard to tell.   Soucy has been smashing our guys for awhile.   And he shouldn't cost us much either. 

[IBatch]

3 hours ago, Angry Goose said:

As a former competitive amateur boxer for 10+ years, I can safely say height does make a difference.  

 

A shorter fighter has to make all sorts of adjustments and depending on how skilled/competitive your opponent is, it’s no ez cakewalk.

 

Now take weight classes out of the equation, like in hockey.

 

All things being equal, shorter guys (usually) have to work harder.  The advantage (usually) of shorter guys is agility/mobility, but fighting through the advantage taller players have is not easy.  

 

So one hand I think you want a mix of both, but it definitely also comes down to the compete level of each individual as well. 

 

 

Maybe it's different on skates?   Probert said he always preferred fighting a tall lanky guy to a short stocky one.  

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, BC_Hawk said:

Yes, I'm more behind potentially overspending on $ and/or term to get QH a long term partner; we can then look to fill the 2nd pair LHD long term answer with Myer's $ in 2024. Let's just use 23/24 to develop some of our younger guys. IF Soucy is willing to do a 1-2 year deal in the 3m range with the opportunity to play on 2nd pair for the year, great. But, UNLESS opportunity knocks, I'm OK with the following for the year:

 

Hughes- FA/Trade

Brisbouis/Burroughs/???-Hronek

Hirose-Myers

If that's our deal next year, we are in for it.   

[canuckpuckluck1]

3 hours ago, N7Nucks said:

Yes, but it's no secret that height has an affect. There's a reason Jon Jones was an absolute animal at light heavyweight, he was bigger and faster than everyone else. Conor McGregor dominated lower weight classes as well because of his taller frame. Height allows for adding more weight without losing speed. Bisping mentioned that George St Pierre looked slower at middleweight than welterweight. Cause it was harder for GSP to support that weight on a smaller frame. There's a reason taller fighters opt to fight in lower weight classes than they should. McGregor fought at featherweight and looked pretty gross not gonna lie, but he was dominating cause he was 5'9. For reference the current featherweight champ, Volkanovski, is 5'6.

 

But that's two different sports. So height matters more in fighting cause reach advantage can change the dynamics of a fight more than reach advantage can affect hockey. Myers has major reach advantage on most players but is still kinda garbage defensively. He's a glorified pylon some nights.

I amateur boxed 30 years ago. Im 5'11 but fought at light weight 63kg. Took some effort to cut weight but I did this to get a massive reach advantage. I forsake a bit of power but i figured if I could jab and move id keep a huge gap between me and them throwing a knock out punch. It worked.

Height and reach is a huge advantage.

My regular weight is a comfortable 74kg. 

 

I would argue weight is a dynamic factor in any sport. Bigger taller players are just harder to move. Soccer, football, hockey etc Once the weight is planted it takes more effort to move it.

[Eddie]

20 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Lol.  He's nothing like Poolboy.    Did you watch him tune our guys every time we were in their zone when in MIN?  To me, he was MIN best D in the bubble.   I'd be surprised if Seattle doesn't re-sign him,  but maybe they want Graves hard to tell.   Soucy has been smashing our guys for awhile.   And he shouldn't cost us much either. 

Yep - and i saw Poolman do the same to us when he was on that huge Jets D. . . I've also seen him get royaly piloned a few times

Like I said I like the player at the right price as long as we don't follow the same time-honoured pattern of overpaying on term and AAV on players who are middling bottom-pair guys with a few 'intangibles'.

[canuck73_3]

15 hours ago, Junkyard Dog said:

His career average is 16:17 minutes a game. 

 

He is a good but is he top 4 money good?

He should be <3.5 or pass all together and I like the player. 

[IBatch]

26 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Yep - and i saw Poolman do the same to us when he was on that huge Jets D. . . I've also seen him get royaly piloned a few times

Like I said I like the player at the right price as long as we don't follow the same time-honoured pattern of overpaying on term and AAV on players who are middling bottom-pair guys with a few 'intangibles'.

I never even noticed him one bit.  Didn't even know who he was until we signed him really.  Soucy in the bubble was laying massive hits on our guys almost every shift.   Noticeable in a good way, over Suter and Dumba that's for sure.   Poolman.   Didn't really even notice him ever until we signed him.   Not in a good or a bad way either.    Soucy is known for his hits.    Did it to us again in Seattle. 
 

We certainly didn't "pilon" Soucy in the bubble that I noticed.   That was a tight series.    Did we "pylon" Soucy in Seattle?  Maybe, but we also pylon'ed AP in St. Louis.  

Edited June 21, 2023 by IBatch

[IBatch]

11 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

He should be <3.5 or pass all together and I like the player. 

Yep.    His next contract shouldn't be more than 3 x 3.   If it gets to that amount, might as well go after Graves.   That said I still rather have Soucy as long as it's 2 million less. 

Edited June 21, 2023 by IBatch

[WHL rocks]

There will be somewhat of a bidding war for this player. 

 

4 years 3.5 mill per/yr. is what I'd offer. 

It might get to 4 * 4 though. A bit pricey for my liking but a good player to have on the team. Need more size and snarl on this team especially on D. 

[Angry Goose]

2 hours ago, IBatch said:

Maybe it's different on skates?   Probert said he always preferred fighting a tall lanky guy to a short stocky one.  

in terms of fighting? sure. youre not moving in/out & side to side in hockey.  

 

probert fought in an era where guys just squared up and basically tee’d off on one another.  now you see guys usually grab, defend by leaning back and try to counter one another.  Burroughs for example is a go-getter but when he faced taller players, he struggled with reach. 

[Elias Pettersson]

7 hours ago, Angry Goose said:

As a former competitive amateur boxer for 10+ years, I can safely say height does make a difference.  

 

A shorter fighter has to make all sorts of adjustments and depending on how skilled/competitive your opponent is, it’s no ez cakewalk.

 

Now take weight classes out of the equation, like in hockey.

 

All things being equal, shorter guys (usually) have to work harder.  The advantage (usually) of shorter guys is agility/mobility, but fighting through the advantage taller players have is not easy.  

 

So one hand I think you want a mix of both, but it definitely also comes down to the compete level of each individual as well. 

 

 

Wouldn't reach be just as important as height?  As a boxer didn't that help you out?

 

Guys like McGregor and Jones dominated the lower weight classes because they had such a longer reach than anyone else.  McGregor is 5'9" but has a 74" reach which makes it easier for him to keep the other guy at a good distance with his jab.  He did this quite well fighting the smaller guys like Aldo and Mendes.  When he beat up Alvarez reach was a huge advantage for McGregor, as even though Alvarez was the same height his reach was only 69", almost a 6-inch difference.  Once McGregor moved up in weight class the bigger guys had a similar reach and most were taller too, so he lost his one big advantage he had when he was in the lower weight class.

 

Bones is the same way.  His reach is 84", so most guys at 205 pounds can't get to him.  Especially Cormier.  Even at heavyweight, Bones is still as tall and has a similar or longer reach than most, which is why nobody can really touch him, even at heavyweight.

[cripplereh]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Wouldn't reach be just as important as height?  As a boxer didn't that help you out?

 

Guys like McGregor and Jones dominated the lower weight classes because they had such a longer reach than anyone else.  McGregor is 5'9" but has a 74" reach which makes it easier for him to keep the other guy at a good distance with his jab.  He did this quite well fighting the smaller guys like Aldo and Mendes.  When he beat up Alvarez reach was a huge advantage for McGregor, as even though Alvarez was the same height his reach was only 69", almost a 6-inch difference.  Once McGregor moved up in weight class the bigger guys had a similar reach and most were taller too, so he lost his one big advantage he had when he was in the lower weight class.

 

Bones is the same way.  His reach is 84", so most guys at 205 pounds can't get to him.  Especially Cormier.  Even at heavyweight, Bones is still as tall and has a similar or longer reach than most, which is why nobody can really touch him, even at heavyweight.

Back in highschool I knew a guy that was 5'10" but had the reach of a person 6'4".

 

Sports he dominated as most didn't know that.

[RakuRaku]

12 hours ago, eeeeergh said:

New strategy

Get the shortest guys we possibly can

So theyre below the sight lines of the gorillas all of these other teams are icing

 

if our guys are short enough, theyll be able to skate around completely unnoticed

Then let's bring back Stecher 

[Baggins]

On 6/20/2023 at 4:54 PM, Alflives said:

Garland is not a rounded pkayer. He is a one dimensional small and slow winger. He is a liability unless he has the puck in the offensive zone. Brock can play along the walls in all zones , with or without the puck. 

Garland is virtually a world class speed skater compared to Boeser. And I think you meant to say "Brock plays along the boards with or wiithout the puck being anywhere near". Boeser's skating and defensive play has improved since being drafted, but nobody is going to call him fast or good defensively. Boeser threw the same amount of hits per 60 minutes as Garland, neither is a physical force out there, but Garland also plays a more aggressive style. Garland also drives opposition players crazy with his shifty play drawing 28 penalties (only Petey drew more) and took 10. While Boeser drew 7 penalties and took 12. Boeser's -5 in penalties drawn to taken was the worst among all our forwards last season. Add in Boeser not being very fast, physical, or defensive and you may be confusing who is a liability. Personally I'd take the small annoying aggressive player over a player with size who doesn't use it.