Elias Pettersson Posted July 8, 2023 Author Share Posted July 8, 2023 (edited) 3 minutes ago, stawns said: Better than it's going to work out for the team I don’t think any team would be able to survive having to pay a Dman on their 3rd pairing $7.26 million for 4 more years. Brisebois or Wolanin could do the same job at a fraction of the price. If we can land Pesce then we would have Soucy in that position at a cheaper price than even adding in the OEL buyout. Edited July 8, 2023 by Elias Pettersson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.B Cooper Posted July 8, 2023 Share Posted July 8, 2023 38 minutes ago, NMHockey said: There's also many people on here who have never heard of alot of mentioned young players and prospects and thus do not fully know what they're talking about. (Ie. the opinions of McDonough in my proposal). They also do not fully research what the situation is with a team like Carolina. Not to sound arrogant but I work in hockey development (specifically scouting and coaching). Working with players from beginning ages all the way up to BCHL/WHL levels. I'm also related to and in frequent contact with alot of hockey personell and past players ranging from Junior B teams to NCAA to the NHL. So I actually know what I'm saying when I make a proposal for Pesce the way I did. Sure homie. I don’t like to brag, but I’m Pavel Bure. On the weekends, I’m Jessica Alba. Every third Thursday, I’m Fred Rogers. You have a lot of guff coming on here in school summer break and start saying you are a hockey expert. We have people here who are legit 30 years I in the industry and they don’t try to do a ‘low key brag’ 99% chance you are 15 and wasting your summer break here. The fact you think your proposal is anything but hilarious proves you are full of shit 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted July 8, 2023 Share Posted July 8, 2023 7 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: I don’t think any team would be able to survive having to pay a Dman on their 3rd pairing $7.26 million for 4 more years. Brisebois or Wolanin could do the same job at a fraction of the price. If we can land Pesce then we would have Soucy in that position at a cheaper price than even adding in the OEL buyout. OEL was a solid top 3 d in his first year and last year was a gong show under a horrible, horrible coach. Hed likely have returned to firm this year. Now they're stuck with his buyout cost for the next 6 years, plus they have to find someone to replace his minutes......it's certainly not Soucy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NMHockey Posted July 8, 2023 Share Posted July 8, 2023 2 minutes ago, D.B Cooper said: Sure homie. I don’t like to brag, but I’m Pavel Bure. On the weekends, I’m Jessica Alba. Every third Thursday, I’m Fred Rogers. You have a lot of guff coming on here in school summer break and start saying you are a hockey expert. We have people here who are legit 30 years I in the industry and they don’t try to do a ‘low key brag’ 99% chance you are 15 and wasting your summer break here. The fact you think your proposal is anything but hilarious proves you are full of shit Hey "homie" try using some professional vocabulary first. I graduated high school nine years ago LOL but thanks for confirming that you jump to conclusions on top of being arrogant. I'm cousins with the Niedermayer brothers and my family was the group that oversaw the construction of Rogers Arena. I played up to Junior A myself and have had connections to high levels of hockey since I was a child. You went onto this thread and starting dissing my idea with zero facts or reasonable opinion. You also showed zero knowledge of young NHL players or prospects and continued to spew nonsense anyways. Also a little pro tip... It's against the rules to swear on here as there's kids reading this forum as well. I hope you hear from a moderator and also clean up your arrogance. Have a nice day. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilduce39 Posted July 8, 2023 Share Posted July 8, 2023 (edited) 20 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said: any trade for pesce they are not taking back any cap.. so they are not taking our cap dump myers or whoever even at 50% they are trying to add deangelo and tarasenko. I don’t particularly care, or expect, to add Pesce this offseason but the only teams interested in adding him are likely up against the cap. And no one is paying a double premium to clear 5 mil AND throw a 1st + to add Pesce, as good as he is. So like I said they’re probably just going to keep him unless they take a hit on the return as part of a 3 way deal.. or take back some cap for a full return on his value. Edited July 8, 2023 by ilduce39 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.B Cooper Posted July 8, 2023 Share Posted July 8, 2023 10 minutes ago, NMHockey said: Hey "homie" try using some professional vocabulary first. I graduated high school nine years ago LOL but thanks for confirming that you jump to conclusions on top of being arrogant. I'm cousins with the Niedermayer brothers and my family was the group that oversaw the construction of Rogers Arena. I played up to Junior A myself and have had connections to high levels of hockey since I was a child. You went onto this thread and starting dissing my idea with zero facts or reasonable opinion. You also showed zero knowledge of young NHL players or prospects and continued to spew nonsense anyways. Also a little pro tip... It's against the rules to swear on here as there's kids reading this forum as well. I hope you hear from a moderator and also clean up your arrogance. Have a nice day. I didn’t claim to be any kind of pro, homie, so my vocabulary is right where it needs to be. Also, seeing as I’m Pavel Bure, your whole Jr A bs is very unimpressive. Dude. I’m in the hall of fame. Also, my cousins are none other than Bill Clinton, Will Smith and Jesus Christ. So yeah….. I know my hockey. You can go on all you want, but again, your proposal is hilariously bad for Carolina. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wai_lai416 Posted July 8, 2023 Share Posted July 8, 2023 (edited) 23 minutes ago, ilduce39 said: I don’t particularly care, or expect, to add Pesce this offseason but the only teams interested in adding him are likely up against the cap. And no one is paying a double premium to clear 5 mil AND throw a 1st + to add Pesce, as good as he is. So like I said they’re probably just going to keep him unless they take a hit on the return as part of a 3 way deal.. or take back some cap for a full return on his value. lol there are already a few teams very interested.. buffalo.. nashville.. they have to clear 0 cap space to pick him up both teams have all the prospect/picks required to make it work.. carolina don't need to take back a penny from anyone interested in pesce Edited July 8, 2023 by wai_lai416 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NMHockey Posted July 8, 2023 Share Posted July 8, 2023 16 minutes ago, D.B Cooper said: I didn’t claim to be any kind of pro, homie, so my vocabulary is right where it needs to be. Also, seeing as I’m Pavel Bure, your whole Jr A bs is very unimpressive. Dude. I’m in the hall of fame. Also, my cousins are none other than Bill Clinton, Will Smith and Jesus Christ. So yeah….. I know my hockey. You can go on all you want, but again, your proposal is hilariously bad for Carolina. I think you might be the 15 year old here with your jokes and attitude. Also would you care to explain why the proposal is bad for Carolina? Explain why $3,600,000 in cap space added is bad? Explain why also getting a 26 year old clutch playoff scorer at 50% retention is bad? Explain why ALSO getting a 24 year old blueliner with powerplay quarterback upside is bad? (Adds some depth puck moving for now regardless). Explain why ALSO getting a 23 year old power forward who was a Hobey Baker nominee is bad? Explain why *ALSO* getting a 2026 3rd replaced as it was traded for a D-man who walked as a UFA; is bad? Explain why **ALSO** getting a 2024 4th is bad when all that's going the other way with Pesce is a 2nd that was acquired for free almost with other picks for a defenseman that is getting re-acquired at 50% retention tomorrow for only a prospect (DeAngelo).?.? By the way I can personally message you some proof of the things I've said. But you're just an arrogant person who loves to spew nonsense to feel good about yourself. Might not be a point in me doing so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PunjabiCanucks Posted July 8, 2023 Share Posted July 8, 2023 Toronto should move Nylander for Pesce- nylander will cost too much and pesce makes that D not laughable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted July 8, 2023 Share Posted July 8, 2023 2 minutes ago, PunjabiCanucks said: Toronto should move Nylander for Pesce- nylander will cost too much and pesce makes that D not laughable Except Carolina doesn’t want Nylander. He’s demanding too big a contract. Canes never overpay players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTramFan Posted July 8, 2023 Share Posted July 8, 2023 54 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Based on everything that JR/PA have said and done so far, I put a trade for Brett Pesce at 50% at least to Vancouver. Vancouver is not waiting another 5 years to try and win a cup. Their time is now. I don’t think it will cost as much to get Pesce as people think. Carolina will be signing DeAngelo and they want Tarasenko as well. They will be well over the cap if that happens. Someone has to go. Chatfield was playing top pairing minutes last year when Slavin was out. So not sure why some have him as a 7/8 Dman. He’d easily be on our top pairing with Hughes. Still pissed we got rid of him. No question that VAN would target Pesce. He is a legit top 4 Dman. But he won't come cheap, even without an extension. And he won't even be traded unless CAR has a better player lined up to fill his role. Chatfield is not that guy. Chatfield averages 14 mins. His av TOI actually dropped last season from the 2021-22 season. He is deployed against the weakest opponents (QoC corsi rel % of -0.49) with 56.3% oZs, meaning that he pays a very sheltered role in CAR. He is not a top 4 Dman on a lottery team, let alone on a contender. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted July 9, 2023 Author Share Posted July 9, 2023 49 minutes ago, stawns said: OEL was a solid top 3 d in his first year and last year was a gong show under a horrible, horrible coach. Hed likely have returned to firm this year. Now they're stuck with his buyout cost for the next 6 years, plus they have to find someone to replace his minutes......it's certainly not Soucy. I’m pretty sure the guy who’s coached OEL on two different clubs knows more about what OEL can do than either you or I. If you think management is that dumb to pay out a $20 million contract for a guy that will regain his form and be a top 4 guy again then the Canucks are doomed really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTramFan Posted July 9, 2023 Share Posted July 9, 2023 (edited) 20 minutes ago, NMHockey said: Also would you care to explain why the proposal is bad for Carolina? Firstly, because Pesce is worth a lot more than that in a trade. Secondly, because Carolina still have a need for a top 4 Dman and until they fill that role, then trading Pesce does not make their team better. 20 minutes ago, NMHockey said: Explain why $3,600,000 in cap space added is bad? I'm not sure how you think this trade creates $3.6m of cap space. Pesce $4.025m out, Beau (50%) $2.075m in = $1.95m in cap space created. Not $3.6m 20 minutes ago, NMHockey said: Explain why also getting a 26 year old clutch playoff scorer at 50% retention is bad? In isolation adding Beauvillier is not a bad move for any team. However, when you consider the big picture (they already have much better forwards than Beau) and that they would depleting their D to get him, then it doesn't stack up for CAR. 20 minutes ago, NMHockey said: Explain why ALSO getting a 24 year old blueliner with powerplay quarterback upside is bad? Because Rathbone is a fringe NHL player that would not make their roster. And as soon as CAR waive Rathbone he will be picked up on waivers by a lesser team. 20 minutes ago, NMHockey said: Explain why ALSO getting a 23 year old power forward who was a Hobey Baker nominee is bad? McDonough might be an NHL player one day, but he won't help CAR right now. And they are in win now mode. 20 minutes ago, NMHockey said: Explain why *ALSO* getting a 2026 3rd replaced as it was traded for a D-man who walked as a UFA; is bad? Explain why **ALSO** getting a 2024 4th is bad when all that's going the other way with Pesce is a 2nd that was acquired for free almost with other picks for a defenseman that is getting re-acquired at 50% retention tomorrow for only a prospect (DeAngelo). Adding a 3rd and 4th round pick is never bad, except when it costs you a 2nd round pick (and the conditions under which CAR got that 2nd round pick have no influence on its value, i.e. they're not looking to give it away because they got it for "free") Edited July 9, 2023 by BigTramFan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted July 9, 2023 Author Share Posted July 9, 2023 21 minutes ago, BigTramFan said: No question that VAN would target Pesce. He is a legit top 4 Dman. But he won't come cheap, even without an extension. And he won't even be traded unless CAR has a better player lined up to fill his role. Chatfield is not that guy. Chatfield averages 14 mins. His av TOI actually dropped last season from the 2021-22 season. He is deployed against the weakest opponents (QoC corsi rel % of -0.49) with 56.3% oZs, meaning that he pays a very sheltered role in CAR. He is not a top 4 Dman on a lottery team, let alone on a contender. Chatfield was pushing 23 minutes a night last year for several games while Slavin was injured with no reduction at all in his play. He finished #2 overall in the NHL for Dmen in on ice expected GA per 60 minutes and #6 overall in high danger shot attempts. He’s on the 3rd pairing because Burns and Pesce are ahead of him. He’s easily a top 4 Dman on many teams including Vancouver. He’d slot right in with Hughes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted July 9, 2023 Share Posted July 9, 2023 5 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Chatfield was pushing 23 minutes a night last year for several games while Slavin was injured with no reduction at all in his play. He finished #2 overall in the NHL for Dmen in on ice expected GA per 60 minutes and #6 overall in high danger shot attempts. He’s on the 3rd pairing because Burns and Pesce are ahead of him. He’s easily a top 4 Dman on many teams including Vancouver. He’d slot right in with Hughes. Carolina is able to play Chatfield top 4 because their systems and their forwards are so strong. Expecting the same results here is unrealistic. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted July 9, 2023 Author Share Posted July 9, 2023 1 minute ago, DeNiro said: Carolina is able to play Chatfield top 4 because their systems and their forwards are so strong. Expecting the same results here is unrealistic. True. Which is why we now have Tocchet, Foote and Gonchar playing our new defensive systems. Brisebois and Wolanin replaced OEL last year with no reduction in our defensive play. The same would apply with Chatfield. At under $1 million he’s probably the best option for Hughes in the entire NHL right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted July 9, 2023 Share Posted July 9, 2023 2 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: True. Which is why we now have Tocchet, Foote and Gonchar playing our new defensive systems. Brisebois and Wolanin replaced OEL last year with no reduction in our defensive play. The same would apply with Chatfield. At under $1 million he’s probably the best option for Hughes in the entire NHL right now. If that is true then no way Carolina let’s him go. I’d rather a more experienced vet with Hughes anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted July 9, 2023 Share Posted July 9, 2023 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWJC Posted July 9, 2023 Share Posted July 9, 2023 1 hour ago, D.B Cooper said: Sure homie. I don’t like to brag, but I’m Pavel Bure. On the weekends, I’m Jessica Alba. Every third Thursday, I’m Fred Rogers. You have a lot of guff coming on here in school summer break and start saying you are a hockey expert. We have people here who are legit 30 years I in the industry and they don’t try to do a ‘low key brag’ 99% chance you are 15 and wasting your summer break here. The fact you think your proposal is anything but hilarious proves you are full of shit Hey Jessica… 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilduce39 Posted July 9, 2023 Share Posted July 9, 2023 1 hour ago, wai_lai416 said: lol there are already a few teams very interested.. buffalo.. nashville.. they have to clear 0 cap space to pick him up both teams have all the prospect/picks required to make it work.. carolina don't need to take back a penny from anyone interested in pesce I’ll believe it when I see it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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