Dazzle Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 19 minutes ago, grandmaster said: Sens, like the Flames, were in a lose situation and tried to make the best out of a whiny baby situation. This is quite reminiscent of the Kesler trade, except we had it worse. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 22 minutes ago, Sell.the.team said: It's called selling high on a player... Hronek hasn't even entered his prime yet, so how is that selling high? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 5 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said: I think he's doing a it of retooling on the fly as we sort of did - trade one decent player for picks (a bit like how we dealt Bo for picks/prospects) and then pay that pick/prospect forward to get a decent player. All comes down to not wanting to re-sign the star - same thing we did with Bo. So he trades Hronek and drafts even a smaller Dman with the pick he got from the trade. Then replaces Hronek in the lineup with a couple of journeymen 3rd pairing guys. Hronek is different than BO. BO was having a career year that he will never replicate and was going to be our 3C. Hronek is only 25 and hasn't even entered his prime yet. Last year was his coming out party and he should only get better. Some people consider him a top pairing Dman. Trading a couple picks for a 25-year-old top pairing RHD is not selling high. Trading your 3C for a top pairing RHD IS selling high. That's the difference. Yzerman looks like he's losing his luster in Detroit. Trading a top pairing RHD and switching that money for a small winger who made his career playing with Patrick Kane is probably not the smartest move... 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanleysteamersmyl Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 15 hours ago, Ronaldoescobar said: Stevey Y back in action! Couple low key moves since fleecing Vancouver but this is not bad. Stevey Y wants to go back on his time machine and draft Quinn Hughes and leave the big Z superstar for Vancouver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekker Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 1 hour ago, R3aL said: Detroit has the strangest forward Group trading Hronek but acquiring debrincat, signing compher and holl holl sucks compher and copp aren’t good enough for the roles they will be asked to play Line up looking mighty mid I agree and I hope it all craps out for SteveY. The media just fawns over him and it gets obnoxious at times. The prospect pool may well bail him out as it's a strong group. Will be interesting to see unfold. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzle Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 11 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Hronek hasn't even entered his prime yet, so how is that selling high? Realistically, how many points do you think he'll get? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 5 hours ago, Junkyard Dog said: I figure he didn’t want to commit on Hronek long term. Perhaps didn’t see that sort of fit with the D-core too. Redwings also have some pretty nice D prospects even before drafting ASP. Johansson(2019 2nd) and Wallinder(2020 2nd) both put up 25+ seasons each in the SHL as under 21 year olds. They also have Tuomisto(2019 2nd) who had a great year in the men’s league in Finland. Tuomisto and Wallinder are making the NA jump next year, could surprise or may take time to adjust like Johansson. And finally Edvinsson(2021 6th overall)who just finished his first year of NA and will perhaps make the jump next year in the NHL. All these D are big, young, high draft picks on the cusp. Overall redwings have one of the best D-core prospect pools in the league. They could afford to move Hronek. They likely didn’t want to re-sign him at the price he was looking to get. Except none of those guys are considered top pairing RHD. You don't trade top pairing RHD. They are the hardest thing to acquire. Trading a top pairing RHD and switching that money for a 5'7" winger probably isn't the smartest move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 Just now, Dazzle said: Realistically, how many points do you think he'll get? If he partners with Hughes he could get 50 points easy. Especially if they find a way to play both Hughes and Hronek together on the PP. It depends on his deployment really. But I have a feeling they are going to use him more than people think. You can easily throw out both Hughes and Hronek together for some shifts, especially if you are behind in the game. And you can play Hronek on the half wall on the PP on the left side so he can use that shot of his like he did in Detroit. Hronek will be playing 23 minutes a night in Vancouver. He is an all situation Dman who can also kill penalties... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJockitch Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Except none of those guys are considered top pairing RHD. You don't trade top pairing RHD. They are the hardest thing to acquire. Trading a top pairing RHD and switching that money for a 5'7" winger probably isn't the smartest move. A 5’7” winger that scores 40g. This isn’t Garland. A lot of Hyperbole and devaluing Bo while pumping Hronek’s tires A LOT. Hronek is good but he has never been thought of as elite and may have been a number one RD on a bad team that said we have a better option at this position. Hronek and Bo sound similar in that wanted significant money and the team said, meh would rather spend that on someone else, we have better options. As good as Hronek was at times, he had a reputation for taking a lot of damage and getting buried in his zone, he isn’t a perfect player but a very good one like Bo. Edited July 10, 2023 by DrJockitch 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 Just now, DrJockitch said: A 5’7” winger that scores 40g. This isn’t Garland. A lot of Hyperbole and devaluing Bo while pumping Hronek’s tires A LOT. Hronek is good but he has never been thought of as elite and may have been a number one RD on a bad team that said we have a better option at this position. Hronek and Bo sound similar in that wanted significant money and the team said, meh would rather spend that on someone else, we have better options. As good as Hronek was at times, he had a reputation for taking a lot of damage and getting buried in his zone, he isn’t a perfect player but a very good one like Bo. How many goals did DeBrincat score without Patrick Kane? How many do you think he will score with Dylan Larkin? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 18 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Except none of those guys are considered top pairing RHD. You don't trade top pairing RHD. They are the hardest thing to acquire. Trading a top pairing RHD and switching that money for a 5'7" winger probably isn't the smartest move. Seider is their top pairing RHD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 8 minutes ago, mll said: Seider is their top pairing RHD. Sure, and Hronek could play on the 2nd pairing. Guys like Seider and Hronek never become available. You basically have to draft them, which is what Detroit did. Trading one of them to get a smaller winger doesn't make alot of sense. If they wanted a winger they could have just signed Tarasenko for free and kept Hronek... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkyard Dog Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 21 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Except none of those guys are considered top pairing RHD. You don't trade top pairing RHD. They are the hardest thing to acquire. Trading a top pairing RHD and switching that money for a 5'7" winger probably isn't the smartest move. I don’t think they believe Hronek is a top pairing guy. I can’t say I do as well. He’s had one good year which was also the year they lowered his ice time. You have to factor in contractual demands. He’s gonna be looking to make bank as a 25/26 year old. That and his playstyle being a more offensive D may not align with the D-core they want long-term. They also already have a top pair RD in Seider. They have enough prospects that have high enough potential to become better. I would be pretty high on Edvinsson and Wallinder. Top 5 prospect pool that’s heavy on the D side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownUndaCanuck Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 I think Detroit will be fine, they're a real fringe playoff team. On defence they've got quite a bunch of random journeyman veterans who are really just place-holders until their kids come through. One name not mentioned much is Edvinsson who may well be the next top defenceman, not just on the team but in the league. Massive body, boomer of a shot, former 6th overall pick. Edvinsson, Wallinder and Seider are all 20-22 years old and are 3 of the best young, young defencemen in the NHL. What's most surprising is that Detroit have 8M in cap space. Yzerman must still be up to something. Seider will obviously get a massive pay rise (although Perron's 5M might come off the books) so they could make a huge splash in free agency next year. I'm surprised to see they didn't this year but Yzerman has a plan. Debrincat wouldn't be my first option for top-line winger, I'm sure he could have poached someone better, but I guess everyone else would have been too expensive whereas Debrincat was relatively cheap. They could still use a decent forward to help them out though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkyard Dog Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 1 minute ago, DownUndaCanuck said: I think Detroit will be fine, they're a real fringe playoff team. On defence they've got quite a bunch of random journeyman veterans who are really just place-holders until their kids come through. One name not mentioned much is Edvinsson who may well be the next top defenceman, not just on the team but in the league. Massive body, boomer of a shot, former 6th overall pick. Edvinsson, Wallinder and Seider are all 20-22 years old and are 3 of the best young, young defencemen in the NHL. What's most surprising is that Detroit have 8M in cap space. Yzerman must still be up to something. Seider will obviously get a massive pay rise (although Perron's 5M might come off the books) so they could make a huge splash in free agency next year. I'm surprised to see they didn't this year but Yzerman has a plan. Debrincat wouldn't be my first option for top-line winger, I'm sure he could have poached someone better, but I guess everyone else would have been too expensive whereas Debrincat was relatively cheap. They could still use a decent forward to help them out though. Yeah they are mostly lacking at offensive winger depth. Larkin/Compher/Copp/Rasmussen and their high pick Kasper who’s on the cusp, they won’t be lacking at C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownUndaCanuck Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 The conditions of the 1st make this trade even more of a lopsided win for Detroit - they can chose to let Ottawa take Boston's 1st instead of Detroit's. Obviously you're looking at a late first rounder then in a fairly average draft (arguably a 2nd rounder in the last draft). So Detroit just got a former 2-time 40G scorer in a down-year for Boston's first next year (what, 25-30th overall?) + Kubalik (solid winger but in a contract year they weren't going to extend), a 4th and a random prospect... I wonder if they'd want one of our many wingers...they've got the cap space for it. Boeser + Rathbone for Wallinder straight up, big risk big reward play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckwings Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 8 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: That's odd considering he traded Filip Hronek for ASP and another pick. Why would he do that if he's going for it? To me Yzerman just doesn't like this player for whatever reason. He doesn't think Hronek is a long term fit to their plan, despite their records seem to imply they were performing worse because he wasn't in the line up. There could also be injury concerns but who knows. I just hope he's wrong now that we have Hronek on board and hopefully have the player healthy for a full season. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 4 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said: Yeah they are mostly lacking at offensive winger depth. Larkin/Compher/Copp/Rasmussen and their high pick Kasper who’s on the cusp, they won’t be lacking at C. None of those guys are elite though. They do have alot of prosepcts on defence but not much up front. I wasn't high on Danielson and I think Yzerman sh*t the bed passing on Dvorsky. Another Yzerman question mark is drafting Cossa ahead of Wallstedt. I think that is going to backfire on him too. Cossa was in the ECHL last year while Wallstedt was dominating the SHL and then the AHL... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesB Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 2 hours ago, Sell.the.team said: It's called selling high on a player... 1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said: Hronek hasn't even entered his prime yet, so how is that selling high? While I hope Hronek does well for the Canucks, I would rather have had the picks. I see three issues with Hronek. 1. He is only team controlled for two seasons (this year and next year). After that he will get a "market" return, regardless of whether he signs an extension next summer or not. In expected value terms, his contract will become "neutral", instead of being a positive value contract. By picking up ASP Detroit will have him for many years (probably to age 27) on a positive value contract until he qualifies to become a UFA. 2. Hronek was very good last year. He was not as good in earlier years. I think it is likely that, given his age, he has simply improved over time in the normal way and this year he will be just as good as last year or even better. But it is just possible that last year turns out to be an outlier year. I am not saying that is likely, but it is a risk. 3. Although we have been told that his injury is healed and his shoulder is "fine", as we have seen from Bear's experience, shoulder problems can be cumulative. There is some possibility that last year's injury makes future injury more likely and/or limits his future play. Once again, I am not saying this is likely, but it is another meaningful risk. Adding it all up, I can see why Detroit made the trade. I think the Canucks have taken a pretty big gamble with Hronek, pushing a lot of chips to the middle of the table. I just hope that Hronek turns out to be worthwhile from the Canuck point of view. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzle Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said: Sure, and Hronek could play on the 2nd pairing. Guys like Seider and Hronek never become available. You basically have to draft them, which is what Detroit did. Trading one of them to get a smaller winger doesn't make alot of sense. If they wanted a winger they could have just signed Tarasenko for free and kept Hronek... This is why drafting needs to be on point. We cannot make excuses about a team winning too much that we'd neglect drafting/development. I still think paying Hronek was a very high cost, but if Hronek is even as good as people claim he'll be, it will at best be a fair cost. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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