Captaincy

[Meh]

3 hours ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

To me Miller is the best choice, and has been for quite a while. It was evident even during the pandemic when it was Miller who stepped up to defend the team and was the vocal leader. He's an emotional guy. He's firey. He leads and pulls guys into the battle. 

 

Just listen to the guy. He's a natural leader. He'll be a great coach someday.

 

We've done it the "nice guy" way for far, FAR too long. 

He's a horrible choice. Please enlighten me to what education or life experience you have to justify your hypothesis.

[Gurn]

1 hour ago, -DLC- said:

...our fans who don't support him aren't really relevant to me.

 You do quote after quote, of posters that disagree with your assement, but then claim they aren't relevant?

[MeanSeanBean]

15 minutes ago, Playoff Beered said:

Lots of folks are worried about the media guys, screw em, (the media guys). The captaincy is about the team-ref relationship on the ice, not some BS questions after the game. 

In my opinion, this is entirely incorrect. The captain's entire job is to deal with the media. The leadership groups job is to deal with the refs and keep moral up in the room with the team. But the captains job is to stand in front of the media night in and night out, through the good and the bad. 

[-DLC-]

9 minutes ago, Gurn said:

 You do quote after quote, of posters that disagree with your assement, but then claim they aren't relevant?

"Not being relevant to me" is applied to it won't change my mind. Unless, of course, someone presents supporting stuff that does sway me or show me another perspective that I hadn't thought about. So I'm open to that (as well).

 

I can still counter what they're putting out there if I feel it's inaccurate or misleading to offset some of the negativity around our players. There is more to JT than just a couple of slammed sticks and missed back checks...so let's look at the big picture if we're assessing our players.

 

Dispel the myths about JT because some buy into it but really don't give him a fair shake and glom on to the negative. He's owned it, he's working on it (and it shows). Let it die already. Even if it's irrelevant to me, I'm tired of the old "JT's just a lazy/grumpy bear" crap that still circulates despite him proving that he's not "just" what some here describe him as. 

[Hairy Kneel]

Who was our best Captain with the media?

[Playoff Beered]

6 minutes ago, MeanSeanBean said:

In my opinion, this is entirely incorrect. The captain's entire job is to deal with the media. The leadership groups job is to deal with the refs and keep moral up in the room with the team. But the captains job is to stand in front of the media night in and night out, through the good and the bad. 

Fair enough, It's my own take on it, I never watch the post game media stuff.

[MeanSeanBean]

2 minutes ago, Hairy Kneel said:

Who was our best Captain with the media?

Historically or currently? 

 

Currently on the team it's Hughes and no question. Guy is articulate, thoughtful, and has thick enough skin to do the job.

 

Historically, I assume Linden. But to be fair, I was to young to understand the importance of the media aspect of the job when he was in charge. I only remember on the ice. So i'd say Hank. He always stood up there and gave meaningful answers. Even when all of Vancouver's heart was broken, he stood tall and did the job with respect and dignity.

[MeanSeanBean]

3 minutes ago, Playoff Beered said:

Fair enough, It's my own take on it, I never watch the post game media stuff.

Totally fair Beered, it's not everyone's cup of tea. But it's the captains job to answer the bell to media. Horvat even took a lot of heat about his job as captain. But he stood infront of a microphone for a lot of really rough years and I respect him for that. It must be incredibly difficult to be a captain in a franchise with such a passionate fan base when the team is in a down decade.

[Dr. Crossbar]

9 minutes ago, -DLC- said:

"Not being relevant to me" is applied to it won't change my mind. Unless, of course, someone presents supporting stuff that does sway me or show me another perspective that I hadn't thought about. So I'm open to that (as well).

 

I can still counter what they're putting out there if I feel it's inaccurate or misleading to offset some of the negativity around our players. There is more to JT than just a couple of slammed sticks and missed back checks...so let's look at the big picture if we're assessing our players.

 

Dispel the myths about JT because some buy into it but really don't give him a fair shake and glom on to the negative. He's owned it, he's working on it (and it shows). Let it die already. Even if it's irrelevant to me, I'm tired of the old "JT's just a lazy/grumpy bear" crap that still circulates despite him proving that he's not "just" what some here describe him as. 

Bravo! Excellent post! Countering the negativity is hugely important around here. 

 

JT is a leader. There are others who see it and know it. He'd make a great captain. We need more unconventional and passion, imo.

[wai_lai416]

no to miller.. he does have some good qualities, vocal fiery will go to war, and holds everyone accountable but himself. the bad qualities outweights the good qualities.. this guy gets mad and angry way too easily.. we don't need him going to the referee for an explanation and then yelling and screaming at them if things don't go his way.. a lot of you claim the league is against us.. the refs are against us.. so i rather not give them more reason to give us more mickey mouse penalties.. his emotion is too volatile and works both ways.. he'll drag his team into war.. at the same time he will drag the team down with him on the sinking boat depending on which way his emotion is leaning.. in a close game.. he'll lead the way and try to will the team back in.. in a not so close game.. his body langauge is more like ok whatever. not exactly the type of captain i would want to lead a team.. inconsistent. if he can fix those things? sure he can be the captain but unless shown otherwise i rather Hughes maybe EP or no captain at all this season and evaluate after the season.. plenty of teams have no captain for a season or 2.. not really that big of a deal.

[Gawdzukes]

2 hours ago, MeanSeanBean said:

"When you're talking about more than one, you're talking about multiple things. A machine with many fixtures has multiple parts. A person that seems like two totally different people on different days might have multiple personalities." -vocabulary.com

 

a number that can be divided by another number without a remainder. -Oxford

 

You continually bring up multiple for whatever reason , so here is the definition of multiple. Just so we can put this one to rest....

 

Fast-paced, physical game is not an excuse. Every player on the ice is playing the same game. No one else is acting like JT does as frequently as JT does.

 

Do we need more volatility? Your opinion seems to be yes, mine is no. I played high level team sports and competed in boxing and at no point did any of my coaches ever once suggest I should be more volatile. Never once, only that you control your emotions so you can preform to your highest ability. You seem to have a different opinion, and that's cool.

 

He sulked of the ice, doesn't matter if it captures "who he is". None of us know "who he is", yourself included. We can only judge him on his play on the ice. He seems like a good guy, but even a good guy can make big mistakes. A grown adult leaving the ice early because he messed up doesn't show captain material in my eyes. 

 

No, Drance is generally one of the more negative media members. He has every right to be, the teams been generally bad for 10 years.. But personally I like hearing his take on things, so I listen to him. As well as nearly all other sources of Canucks media, at least on 650. You making a blanket statement about Drance and ignoring the intricacies of how he has generally spoken about Miller is insincere, in my opinion. 

 

We can agree on not seeing eye to eye on the subject though, I'm good with that.

 

 

 

 

Very well said. It captures my thoughts as I read the exchanges. No matter how hard you try during your shift to score loafing to the bench on a line change and not backchecking, or sulking about a play is a detriment and not a good hockey trait. There is no excuse for that type of behavior. It's fair to point out and shouldn't be swept under the rug. Lots of players do it consistently and all players are guilty of it from time to time. Bottom line is it's a negative as far as leadership goes

 

Also a good point about demeanor, you always want to be able to keep your emotions in check. Getting fired up is fine but there is a point where aggressive anger leads to poor decision making. It's a fine line and Miller walks if often. It's part of what makes him a good player though. I wouldn't want him to lose that tenacity and level of caring, but he could learn to control it better. As a leader on the team his teammates follow the example he sets. A captain needs to be calm and thinking clearly under pressure.

[nergish]

17 hours ago, King Heffy said:

Let the players vote on it at the end of camp.

That's the thing, though. The players would almost certainly vote for Huggy.

He's just so clearly the driving force behind this entire team.

 

Pettersson is the real deal, and could also make a great captain. But every shred of offence this team can muster channels directly through Captain Quinn.

Remember that play against St. Louis in the bubble playoffs - Hughes banking a pass to Horvat for the overtime goal? Him laying on the ice with Bozak on top of him. 
The way Hughes just smiled at his opponent, as if to say "I'm not here to throw my weight around, I'm here to win hockey games". I knew right then and there that guy is everything for our Canucks.

 

You don't need to be a loudmouthed, alpha with stature to lead a hockey team. You do need to set a standard, regularly leave your teammates in awe of your ability and work ethic, and push those around you to be better. That's our Huggy Bear.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 14, 2023 by nergish

[Dr. Crossbar]

1 hour ago, Strawbone said:

I don't want to see Hughes or Petey as captains... yet. This is one of the most brutal sports media markets anywhere, and being captain and addressing the media every game really feels like it could drag them down. I think Miller has genuinely matured over the years and would be the best choice... but only if he's REALLY ready to keep a level head when the questions start to get idiotic and negative as they always seem to.

 

I wouldn't mind a rotating captaincy at all. Spread the load around. It's a lot easier to remain positive when you know you don't have to be THE GUY every single night.

Excellent take and perspective. I'd like to see Hughes and Petey keep the A with Miller leading the C and dealing with the media.

He's a straight shooter who won't be manipulated by them. I like a guy that can push back against them. This management seems to like that as well. 

 

I think he'd be ok with being THE GUY knowing it's helping his teammates by taking the heat off them. I'd be ok with the rotating C as well.

[MeanSeanBean]

17 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

Very well said. It captures my thoughts as I read the exchanges. No matter how hard you try during your shift to score loafing to the bench on a line change and not backchecking, or sulking about a play is a detriment and not a good hockey trait. There is no excuse for that type of behavior. It's fair to point out and shouldn't be swept under the rug. Lots of players do it consistently and all players are guilty of it from time to time. Bottom line is it's a negative as far as leadership goes

 

Also a good point about demeanor, you always want to be able to keep your emotions in check. Getting fired up is fine but there is a point where aggressive anger leads to poor decision making. It's a fine line and Miller walks if often. It's part of what makes him a good player though. I wouldn't want him to lose that tenacity and level of caring, but he could learn to control it better. As a leader on the team his teammates follow the example he sets. A captain needs to be calm and thinking clearly under pressure.

100%.

 

The fun thing is, I actually believe the Miller stuff was generally overblown. But that doesn't change the fact that the Schenn, Delia, multiple lazy back checks and leaving the bench early (that was this year alone) were all prime examples of what a captain does not do. I'm fine with a star player doing those things, as long as you have a leadership group that can be the counter balance to that type of volatile behaviour. I think rewarding that type of behaviour with a captaincy would be this franchise, who's trying to change the culture, shooting themselves in the foot.

 

Even Petey has moments where he smashes the stick on the bench out of frustration. But Tochett said himself that https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/back-to-grade-school-canucks-tocchet-plans-to-reteach-the-basics-after-blowout-loss/“We’ve got to strip it down and we’ve got to just, you know, make people understand how important it is to do these hard things to win. It starts from the first goal, throwing a puck away and we give their best player a breakaway to start. The ball starts (rolling) right there. Then you get some guys get frustrated, smashing sticks. No more smashing sticks and stuff. You can’t be entitled in this game. It’s a hard game to play and we’ve got to stick together.” ironically, if I remember correctly, this quote about smashing sticks was in regards to JT smashing his stick on the bench). But I think Petey will learn to control his emotions over time, he's only 24. Miller is 30, I suspect what you see is what you get with him, for the most part.

 

I think Miller is an important part of this teams leadership going forward. He should wear an A, no doubt in my mind. But I think he would be arguably the worst pick of the players who are a serious candidate to wear the C.

Edited August 14, 2023 by MeanSeanBean

[Hairy Kneel]

Smyl was good with the media.

[wai_lai416]

1 hour ago, MeanSeanBean said:

100%.

 

The fun thing is, I actually believe the Miller stuff was generally overblown. But that doesn't change the fact that the Schenn, Delia, multiple lazy back checks and leaving the bench early (that was this year alone) were all prime examples of what a captain does not do. I'm fine with a star player doing those things, as long as you have a leadership group that can be the counter balance to that type of volatile behaviour. I think rewarding that type of behaviour with a captaincy would be this franchise, who's trying to change the culture, shooting themselves in the foot.

 

Even Petey has moments where he smashes the stick on the bench out of frustration. But Tochett said himself that https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/back-to-grade-school-canucks-tocchet-plans-to-reteach-the-basics-after-blowout-loss/“We’ve got to strip it down and we’ve got to just, you know, make people understand how important it is to do these hard things to win. It starts from the first goal, throwing a puck away and we give their best player a breakaway to start. The ball starts (rolling) right there. Then you get some guys get frustrated, smashing sticks. No more smashing sticks and stuff. You can’t be entitled in this game. It’s a hard game to play and we’ve got to stick together.” ironically, if I remember correctly, this quote about smashing sticks was in regards to JT smashing his stick on the bench). But I think Petey will learn to control his emotions over time, he's only 24. Miller is 30, I suspect what you see is what you get with him, for the most part.

 

I think Miller is an important part of this teams leadership going forward. He should wear an A, no doubt in my mind. But I think he would be arguably the worst pick of the players who are a serious candidate to wear the C.

i agree with everything you said.. but the Miller obsess fans here will spin everything into a positive and if we don't agree we are haters.. i have no issue with Miller getting the C if he can get rid of some of those habits but at this stage of his career i might be wrong but it's very unlikely he can rid it as it's part of who he is and it's what makes him fun to watch at time and frustrating at others.

[MeanSeanBean]

40 minutes ago, Hairy Kneel said:

Smyl was good with the media.

Still is

[Dr. Crossbar]

16 hours ago, gwarrior said:

I could see Miller being named captain. He seems like the type where you can walk with me into the fight. Or I'll drag you into it with me.

He is that in spades.

[Baratheon]

This is a case where I support the coaches decision.  Personally I do not think he’ll be picking Miller but if he does then that’s great.  JT sets an example (well… usually anyways) that I’d like the rest of the team to follow.  RT will select Hughes if I was to guess.  Seems like the most intelligent choice but again… I defer to the coach on this.  I like the way RT approaches things (so far anyways) and think it’s important that he continues to run the ship his way.

[BarnBurner]

1 hour ago, wai_lai416 said:

i agree with everything you said.. but the Miller obsess fans here will spin everything into a positive and if we don't agree we are haters.. i have no issue with Miller getting the C if he can get rid of some of those habits but at this stage of his career i might be wrong but it's very unlikely he can rid it as it's part of who he is and it's what makes him fun to watch at time and frustrating at others.

This is actually hilarious.

 

You snivel about pretty much everything, yet Miller plays with passion and you try to "spin it on the haters"? 

 

I ain't no JT fanboy, but I can't remotely imagine someone like you being a captain. 

 

I'd rather JT be the captain instead of putting unnecessary pressure on Petey or Hughes.