StealthNuck

Sven Baertschi | #47 | LW

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1 minute ago, Alflives said:

We have a lot of vets -AJ-.  My point is if JB would have focussed on keeping our picks, and adding too, we would have twice the number (or more) prospects we currently have.  You said we'd be doing well if our current group produced two top six forwards.  Having twice as many would give us four.  That's awesome!

Of course! I agree! It's just a matter of maintaining a balance of veteran leadership and future prospects for the team. So far, I think it's going well and with the retirement of the twins this year or next, more will be cleared up, leaving Edler as potentially the oldest player on the team despite being just over 30.

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1 minute ago, -AJ- said:

Of course! I agree! It's just a matter of maintaining a balance of veteran leadership and future prospects for the team. So far, I think it's going well and with the retirement of the twins this year or next, more will be cleared up, leaving Edler as potentially the oldest player on the team despite being just over 30.

I agree.  I'm excited about, and hopeful for a better future.  We have some good looking prospects on the horizon.  

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17 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

I think many fans overrate our prospects in the sense that they expect them all to become top 6 forwards. Statistically speaking, of Lind, Pettersson, Gadjovich, Goldobin, and Gaudette, probably only about two of them become top 6 forwards at best. From what I see, Goldobin is the closest to the NHL and Pettersson is insane in the SHL, so they would be my bets. Unless we defy the odds, it's unrealistic to expect all of those players to become top 9 players. 

Yeah, for sure.

 

So if we consider:  Horvat, Boeser and Baertschi to be top-6'ers (I think they are) and then add Pettersson as a very good bet... we need two of Goldobin/Dahlen/Gadjovich/Lind/Virtanen/Gaudette/Granlund to fill out the top 6. In the meantime we can roll with Loui or Gagner or another UFA... we sure have a lot of options at least.

 

I'm actually pretty optimistic about our forwards at this point but we need to find a real PPQB on the back end and a true top pair.  There's a whole lot less upside on defense as Juolevi is the only real "top pairing" ceiling and he's no sure bet.  You can rattle off a lot of names like McEneny/Brisebois/Holm/Subban/Chatfield and we have relatively young guys in Stecher/Pouliot/Hutton/Gudbranson but that lack of top talent is glaring.

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5 minutes ago, Yotes said:

what is his new contract going to cost us? how many years do we go?

When is his current deal up?

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All I know is that I'm pleased to see that we stole a top-line forward in Sven for a 2nd round pick, especially from a divisional rival in the Flames.

 

Concerning the discussion taking place of Sven being displaced by upstarts, I don't think he has too much to worry about AT LEAST for a couple seasons.  He's still signed to a value deal, developed chemistry with the team's two young guns (Bo and Brock) and is producing himself.  Most hotshot rookies don't make the league that quickly after being drafted so unless Gadjovich is the next coming of Lucic or Goldobin suddenly becomes Kucherov I doubt either of them would quickly supplant Sven.  Even Dahlen is not a sure thing as he's still playing overseas, and could turn out to be Hunter Shinkaruk OR Johnny Hockey, no one knows which would be the case.  If Pettersson plays left wing then maybe he could pose a threat?  His future may still very well be up the middle if the team wants him and Dahlen together.  Kole Lind is also a right wing so he may not factor in on the left side, while someone like Petrus Palmu, as a dark horse, likely needs at least 4-5 years to even threaten Sven, if he gets there.

In short, just be happy that we have a respectable 1st line of young guns.  The Killer B's line looks solid, to say the least.      

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9 minutes ago, Alflives said:

When is his current deal up?

This is his his contract year on a $1.85M per year deal. Never realized what a steal we got him for.

 

If we re-sign him, I see it being north of $4M per, maybe even $4.5M.

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1 minute ago, -AJ- said:

This is his his contract year on a $1.85M per year deal. Never realized what a steal we got him for.

 

If we re-sign him, I see it being north of $4M per, maybe even $4.5M.

Uh oh!  That's a lot of dough for him.  Maybe signing Gagner wasn't such a good idea, considering Baer is coming up?  That 3 million we could have allotted to Baer.  Now, maybe the best move is to trade Baer to a contender before the coming TDL? 

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Sven is still an rfa at seasons end so that is good. I would prefer to keep him around and ideally this year or next get rid of Gagner.

 

Sven should be in the 4m range, but hard to say, depends on his agent and how late we wait before we sign him. 

 

 hope benning has tried to make some sort of contract extension talks his with agent. The more time goes on and he produces the deal gets closer to 5m 

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I'd consider trading Baer at the TDL *depending on what the return is*.

 

But it's far more likely we re-sign and wait and see if another kid can steal his spot in the next few years. 

 

Signing Kane this summer would also vastly improve our top 6 LW depth. If we sign Kane and one of Dahlen, Goldobin etc look amazing, it could make Sven expendable as early as next year. Doubt that hapens though. 

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10 hours ago, canuck73_3 said:

I don't agree with that sentiment I just think Jake might be a better fit with Bo and Brock as he is not a cycle type forward. He's more of a north-south fit. 

 

Baertschi isn't going anywhere anytime soon and is very under appreciated here.

They want to play the cycle game though.

 

 

Edited by mll

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14 hours ago, Alflives said:

We have a lot of vets -AJ-.  My point is if JB would have focussed on keeping our picks, and adding too, we would have twice the number (or more) prospects we currently have.  You said we'd be doing well if our current group produced two top six forwards.  Having twice as many would give us four.  That's awesome!

You could be very right about Baer not being with the club in the future. IMHO moving him this season is premature. If the idea is to maximize return then he has to establish his +40 point season again this year. The other issue is deciding which vets will stay next year. I van see the Twins, Vanek and Gagner gone. 

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1 hour ago, Boudrias said:

You could be very right about Baer not being with the club in the future. IMHO moving him this season is premature. If the idea is to maximize return then he has to establish his +40 point season again this year. The other issue is deciding which vets will stay next year. I van see the Twins, Vanek and Gagner gone. 

He'll have to improve his game for that to happen.

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16 hours ago, ilduce39 said:

Yeah, for sure.

 

So if we consider:  Horvat, Boeser and Baertschi to be top-6'ers (I think they are) and then add Pettersson as a very good bet... we need two of Goldobin/Dahlen/Gadjovich/Lind/Virtanen/Gaudette/Granlund to fill out the top 6. In the meantime we can roll with Loui or Gagner or another UFA... we sure have a lot of options at least.

 

I'm actually pretty optimistic about our forwards at this point but we need to find a real PPQB on the back end and a true top pair.  There's a whole lot less upside on defense as Juolevi is the only real "top pairing" ceiling and he's no sure bet.  You can rattle off a lot of names like McEneny/Brisebois/Holm/Subban/Chatfield and we have relatively young guys in Stecher/Pouliot/Hutton/Gudbranson but that lack of top talent is glaring.

Wow - this is pretty much exactly my own thoughts in every respect.

I'd say that Horvat and Baertschi should stick together since they've gained good chemistry.  I do, however, see them as 2nd line players.  To me, Pettersson is a shoe-in for the top center spot, but at this time Dahlen seems to me to be who we are counting on for the left side.  I don't see Granlund, Gaudette, Virtanen or even Lind fitting that position.  Goldobin... maybe.  I wouldn't mind one more high-ceiling prospect for the left in the system. 

But I feel you are 100% correct on the blueline.  We need at least one more high end prospect back there... if not two.  To me, that should be Benning's big focus right now - especially since defensemen take longer to develop.

 

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35 minutes ago, kloubek said:

Wow - this is pretty much exactly my own thoughts in every respect.

I'd say that Horvat and Baertschi should stick together since they've gained good chemistry.  I do, however, see them as 2nd line players.  To me, Pettersson is a shoe-in for the top center spot, but at this time Dahlen seems to me to be who we are counting on for the left side.  I don't see Granlund, Gaudette, Virtanen or even Lind fitting that position.  Goldobin... maybe.  I wouldn't mind one more high-ceiling prospect for the left in the system. 

But I feel you are 100% correct on the blueline.  We need at least one more high end prospect back there... if not two.  To me, that should be Benning's big focus right now - especially since defensemen take longer to develop.

 

I'm not so sure that a line with Pettersson and Boeser will need a 1st line LW.  Maybe they can get away with a player that fills a specific need on the line; decent size/grit and hockey sense, but not necessarily a +60pt player.  Be good if said player has solid defensive skill as well. 

 

Agree about dmen being JBs focus in the next draft.  Really hoping he can pick up another (at least 2nd rounder) pick at the deadline.

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34 minutes ago, higgyfan said:

I'm not so sure that a line with Pettersson and Boeser will need a 1st line LW.  Maybe they can get away with a player that fills a specific need on the line; decent size/grit and hockey sense, but not necessarily a +60pt player.  Be good if said player has solid defensive skill as well.

That may be true.  Ive always worked with the philosophy that your top line should have three top end forwards.  But the dominant WCE line has Morrison who simply had good chemistry with Bert and Nazzy and you can see it in action right now in teams like Calgary who put Ferland on their top line when he is clearly the lesser player.

 

Ok.... Fair point.  Plus the fact that I do think Dahlen and maybe Goldobin are likely to be top six players and we might be ok as is.

 

Needed high end defensive help though is a no brainer, as you agree.  Juolevi is a nice prospect but even if he hits we will still need another high end talent for the 2nd pp unit if nothing else.  And since prospects are hit and miss, I'd really like to see two such prospects in the system to be safe.

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Baer will get a big raise.

 

I think the future Top 6 (with what we currently have) will be:

 

_______ - Horvat - Boeser

Baertschi - Pettersson - Lind

 

Canucks need to improve the #1LW position though (Kane?). Unsure what Dahlen's ceiling would be. I also think they'll cut their ties with Goldobin at some point, after a couple of years waiting for him to learn to play how they want. Same with Subban. They just gave up on Rodin for this reason.

 

Gaunce, Gaudette, Granlund, Lockwood, MacEwen and Gadjovich could fill in the bottom 6. Tough to predict though, as there will be more drafts, more great prospects added, trades, etc.  For all we know, Gaudette might be the only one in this list who has a future with the team. (Granlund is the exception, as I hope he remains a regular bottom 6 player)

Edited by NUCKER67

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5 minutes ago, kloubek said:

That may be true.  Ive always worked with the philosophy that your top line should have three top end forwards.  But the dominant WCE line has Morrison who simply had good chemistry with Bert and Nazzy and you can see it in action right now in teams like Calgary who put Ferland on their top line when he is clearly the lesser player.

 

Ok.... Fair point.  Plus the fact that I do think Dahlen and maybe Goldobin are likely to be top six players and we might be ok as is.

 

Needed high end defensive help though is a no brainer, as you agree.  Juolevi is a nice prospect but even if he hits we will still need another high end talent for the 2nd pp unit if nothing else.  And since prospects are hit and miss, I'd really like to see two such prospects in the system to be safe.

IMO, we need some size in our top 6 and that's why I see Benning pushing for Kane this summer.

 

A future top line of Kane, Pettersson, Boeser would be pretty deadly IMO. Baer, Horvat, Virtanen? on the future 2nd with the possibility some of Dahlen, Goldobin, Lind etc make Baer expendable/push Virtanen down etc.

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2 hours ago, higgyfan said:

I'm not so sure that a line with Pettersson and Boeser will need a 1st line LW.  Maybe they can get away with a player that fills a specific need on the line; decent size/grit and hockey sense, but not necessarily a +60pt player.  Be good if said player has solid defensive skill as well. 

 

Agree about dmen being JBs focus in the next draft.  Really hoping he can pick up another (at least 2nd rounder) pick at the deadline.

Hmmm... Virtanen 

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1 hour ago, J-Dizzle said:

Hmmm... Virtanen 

Hey, good call

 

Virtanen - Pettersson - Boeser

Baertschi/Dahlen - Horvat - Lind

 

 

 

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