Don’t Believe Anything Iain MacIntyre Tells You

[alt kilgore]

6 hours ago, tas said:

hint: it's because they are.

 

iain's alleged arrogance is nothing compared to the hubris of canucks fans thinking they know more than the accredited media when every shred of information they receive to base their beliefs on are provided by those same media members who actually have legitimate access to the team. 

No, its Ian's arrogance and hubris that he thinks he can speak for all Canuck fans. And that they are all the same person. That they are all simple minded..ie.."der...want dwaft picks....but..der...mad when they lose a game". What a rube eh? ha ha ha.

 

Fact is there is a vocal minority that may fall into that idiotic segment on the bandwagon. But IMO most fans are smart enough to understand and accept more losses if it means a) developing prospects for the future and b, because of  those losses, maybe moving up in the draft. 

 

Its an odd thing living with two contradicting wishes in your head at the same time, and I admit I flip back and forth all the time. This phenomenon only happens in this situation, when my hockey team won't make the playoffs, and needs high picks. Because DURING a game, I WANT THE TEAM TO WIN!  But if they lose, afterwards, I can still be happy to know they have moved up in the draft.  I think most fans are like that too.

[Nuxfanabroad]

Yawwn..just wakin' up, so I'm late to this hobnob.

 

Mac's okay, I think. Wouldn't surprise me if such statements are just backing vets who've given him sound-bites for a decade+

 

We've got lots of filler on the roster, serving as a short wooden bridge over a nasty, deep(2 or 3 yr) crevasse. It's their cuppa'Joe in the bigs..their 15 mins of quasi-fame..& it's got us all "p*$$in & moanin"(to quote an old charmin coach:^).

 

We're stuck in this spying, prying, digi-age of instantaneous-gratification. Turnin soil & plantin' shyte seems an interminable-drag. Patience folks!

[Pete M]

6 hours ago, tas said:

hint: it's because they are.

 

iain's alleged arrogance is nothing compared to the hubris of canucks fans thinking they know more than the accredited media when every shred of information they receive to base their beliefs on are provided by those same media members who actually have legitimate access to the team. 

just watch the games, why do fans need to listen to the media...the team is going to end up 3 to 7 from last, which means they have a long way to go before they get back to where they were a few years ago. But like most fans feel to get there you need high draft picks not 30+ year old vets on the down slide.

 

Do you consider yourself a fan...if you do, then I guess you are calling yourself a dumb idiot.

[DSVII]

I for one have yet to see this mythical unicorn of a fan that wants a rebuild but is complaining about losses.

 

Maybe complaining about the way we lose (vets/ahlers being overplayed, kids being given short leash and not allowed opportunities)

[RogersTowell]

3 minutes ago, DSVII said:

I for one have yet to see this mythical unicorn of a fan that wants a rebuild but is complaining about losses.

 

Maybe complaining about the way we lose (vets/ah let's being overplayed, kids being given short leash and not allowed opportunities)

In this season alone, Baertschi, Granlund, Tryamkin and Stecher have worked their way up the depth chart.  In recent games we are seeing more of the 2nd pp unit as they start to show they might be ready to take 1st unit duties.  One thing that didn't make much sense was Bo having to prove himself again this year.  Virtanen got sent down because he wasn't developing here and wouldn't develop as quickly playing 4th line minutes.  I don't think Gaunce has shown he should move up the depth chart at all yet.  Megna is another thing entirely.  That is one mistake that's all on Willie.  Goldobin is being handled well.  I still would have found a way to play him in the 3rd that first game for just one token shift.  I'm sure there's a reason he wasn't playing in the NHL for the Sharks when we picked him up.  Subban hasn't played yet, likely because he isn't ready yet and we have a fairly deep D corps, but he was rewarded with being called up, which gives him a pat on the back for effort and some spending money.  I'd love to see him pick up that defensive side of his game and earn a spot.

[CeeBee51]

2 hours ago, Rocksterh8 said:

When I read this article, I could see it would be a very good basis for a  healthy discussion as it showed two opposite sides of not only media but also fans. You have Imac (being the brown noser he's always been) with his analysis of how Canucks management can do no wrong with their transition.

 

Then you have this Canucks Army writer basically debunking what Imac has said about what other fans are wanting. That management is not doing what a lot of other fans think would be a better for the young players and make for a more efficient rebuild.

 

IMO both kind of fan's are right, but just have different idea's of what would be the best way for the team to quote *rebuild* and move forward into the future. There is no right or wrong fan as we all want whats best for the team to finally win the pot of gold.

 

I did not create this article nor approve or disapprove, I just copy and pasted it and the headline to see if a healthy discussion would arise from it. For the most part it did, with a few exceptions from some posters who chose to post hateful and negative things about me, and totally ignore the article. They know who they are and hopefully they will learn to post more about the threads/article's than just attack the posters.

Sorry for my comments this morning. I should have finished my coffee and read more carefully and I would have realized your didn't write any of it.

[189lb enforcers?]

5 minutes ago, CeeBee51 said:

Sorry for my comments this morning. I should have finished my coffee and read more carefully and I would have realized your didn't write any of it.

Beauty. 

 

I miss Valk and Taylor doing the post game stuff. It would be nice to get some of that back on not rely on these hipsters for post game commentary.  

 

[189lb enforcers?]

44 minutes ago, DSVII said:

I for one have yet to see this mythical unicorn of a fan that wants a rebuild but is complaining about losses.

 

Maybe complaining about the way we lose (vets/ahlers being overplayed, kids being given short leash and not allowed opportunities)

Agree. Fallacy.

 

[189lb enforcers?]

33 minutes ago, RogersTowell said:

In this season alone, Baertschi, Granlund, Tryamkin and Stecher have worked their way up the depth chart.  In recent games we are seeing more of the 2nd pp unit as they start to show they might be ready to take 1st unit duties.  One thing that didn't make much sense was Bo having to prove himself again this year.  Virtanen got sent down because he wasn't developing here and wouldn't develop as quickly playing 4th line minutes.  I don't think Gaunce has shown he should move up the depth chart at all yet.  Megna is another thing entirely.  That is one mistake that's all on Willie.  Goldobin is being handled well.  I still would have found a way to play him in the 3rd that first game for just one token shift.  I'm sure there's a reason he wasn't playing in the NHL for the Sharks when we picked him up.  Subban hasn't played yet, likely because he isn't ready yet and we have a fairly deep D corps, but he was rewarded with being called up, which gives him a pat on the back for effort and some spending money.  I'd love to see him pick up that defensive side of his game and earn a spot.

Why not give Subban or even Pedan some games as part of the bigger picture and transition process? 

Is Grenier dressed for tonight? 

[RogersTowell]

10 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Why not give Subban or even Pedan some games as part of the bigger picture and transition process? 

Is Grenier dressed for tonight? 

It's a good question.  Possibly Subban isn't ready, but we as fans won't know that for sure unless we see him on the ice.  I think LaBate is dressed tonight rather than Grenier, but I could be wrong and it could be in addition to.  Sadly, I'm assuming Megna will be dressed.

[Rocksterh8]

24 minutes ago, CeeBee51 said:

Sorry for my comments this morning. I should have finished my coffee and read more carefully and I would have realized your didn't write any of it.

Thank you, I appreciate it.

[Rocksterh8]

4 minutes ago, RogersTowell said:

It's a good question.  Possibly Subban isn't ready, but we as fans won't know that for sure unless we see him on the ice.  I think LaBate is dressed tonight rather than Grenier, but I could be wrong and it could be in addition to.  Sadly, I'm assuming Megna will be dressed.

I heard LaBate and Grenier are both in, Goldy / Beiga are out.

[CeeBee51]

6 minutes ago, RogersTowell said:

It's a good question.  Possibly Subban isn't ready, but we as fans won't know that for sure unless we see him on the ice.  I think LaBate is dressed tonight rather than Grenier, but I could be wrong and it could be in addition to.  Sadly, I'm assuming Megna will be dressed.

I think the problem is the number of call-ups allowed after the trade deadline and the fact that the comets are in a  real tight playoff race. I'd like to see em too, but I understand if we don't.

[SilentSam]

... it seems day has come that some one has the time to phsyco-analyze the opinion of a sports journalist..

 I think the majority of us here are able to do that without writing an essay, an can come to a pin point opinion with 2 or 3, "encrypted"4 letter words.  

 

 

[The Lock]

Just now, SilentSam said:

... it seems day has come that some one has the time to phsyco-analyze the opinion of a sports journalist..

 I think the majority of us here are able to do that without writing an essay, an can come to a pin point opinion with 2 or 3, "encrypted"4 letter words.  

I call you out on this! I will write and article and analyze your post with a fine-tooth comb like how Trump combs his hair! Feel my wrath! *prepares the 4-letter word cannon....

[WeneedLumme]

3 hours ago, WeneedLumme said:

Yeah, because this forum is for attacking members of the Canucks organization the way you do, right? 

 

3 hours ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Find me a post where I *only respond to attack a poster and not a poster's opinion and you'll have something more than chewing gum to connect me to this claim. I think you either back this up or admit you're wrong. 

 

If the the only content you post is aimed at slandering a poster, it's personal. If you can manage to build a retort around an opinion instead, then it's fair game. 

Your response indicates a lack of reading comprehension, a lack of honesty, a penchant for erecting straw men, or all three. I said you attack members of the Canucks organization. I did not say you attack other posters. My post was only 17 words long. Was that too much for you to follow?

 

By the way, I can see facts don't interest you much, but when it's in writing it's libel. Slander is spoken. When you are manufacturing negative nonsense about various members of the Canucks organization as you like to do, and posting it in this forum, it is libel, not slander.

[SilentSam]

2 minutes ago, The Lock said:

I call you out on this! I will write and article and analyze your post with a fine-tooth comb like how Trump combs his hair! Feel my wrath! *prepares the 4-letter word cannon....

.. "I never inhaled"...  but maybe I should have ?  

[luckylager]

Normally I enjoy Imac's analysis, but this came off like a poopy diaper being thrown around by a frustrated toddler. I usually agree with the guy, but I think he kinda missed the boat with some of his presumptions / assertions.

 

Something tells me Imac missed whatever point @LaBamba was trying to make... given his natural abilities to take people off their game, send them spiraling into a fit of poop throwing, incoherent rage.

[189lb enforcers?]

32 minutes ago, WeneedLumme said:

 

Your response indicates a lack of reading comprehension, a lack of honesty, a penchant for erecting straw men, or all three. I said you attack members of the Canucks organization. I did not say you attack other posters. My post was only 17 words long. Was that too much for you to follow?

 

By the way, I can see facts don't interest you much, but when it's in writing it's libel. Slander is spoken. When you are manufacturing negative nonsense about various members of the Canucks organization as you like to do, and posting it in this forum, it is libel, not slander.

Guess what?! I can and will comment, both positive and negative, about the Org as I see it. Feel free to continue to rip on anything I write here, just don't make like your buddy, and make it all about the poster, and not the post, and we can get along. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Western Red]

10 hours ago, Rocksterh8 said:

Don’t Believe Anything Iain MacIntyre Tells You About The Canucks And Rebuilding

MARCH 10, 2017, 4:20 PM | JACKSON MCDONALD

Iain MacIntyre was on Team 1040’s morning show yesterday to discuss the team’s direction and the job Willie Desjardins has done as head coach. MacIntyre provided about six minutes of analysis, but it was an early exchange that caught my ear and struck me as a bit misguided:

Iain MacIntyre: “The one thing that I’ll say, that I think is unfair about criticism of the hockey team generally is that it seems often now people are advocating… that the priority needs to be on development and bringing kids along and making the team younger… and yet they’re outraged and hyper-critical when the team loses.” 

Don Taylor: “There you go. That’s well said.” 

IM: “You can’t have everything. You can have one or the other. If people think that the young players are already better than the experienced players I’m afraid that’s just not reality. Older players, even ones that might be considered journeymen, or pedestrian, or depth players in the NHL, if they’ve been around they still have more know-how, they have more trade craft than younger players who have, granted, perhaps more talent, and certainly more potential, but haven’t learned to play the game.”

There’s a lot to chew on here, so I’ll deconstruct this point by point.

It seems often now people are advocating… that the priority needs to be on development and bringing kids along and making the team younger… and yet they’re outraged and hyper-critical when the team loses.  

This is perhaps the greatest misconception to plague the Vancouver hockey media over the past three seasons, and to be fair, this isn’t unique to Iain MacIntyre in the slightest. He’s just the most recent example. The purpose isn’t to put him on blast, but rather to finally put a group of misconceptions that have permeated the local media to bed.

What MacIntyre is completely failing to understand here, as others have before him, is the distinction between criticism of process and criticism of results. I don’t claim to have insight into the thoughts and feelings of every Canucks fan, but the majority of the criticism I’ve seen and the majority of which we’ve published in this space and others like it, has very little to do with the fact that the Canucks are losing, and much more to do with how they’re losing.

They’ve been raked over the coals for playing boring, low-event hockey, for doling out undeserved ice time to marginal players, or for scratching promising youngsters, but they’ve rarely been criticized simply for failing to close out games.

You can’t have everything. You can have one or the other. 

This was the highlight of MacIntyre’s radio hit for me. It’s funny to see one of management’s biggest defenders in this market suggest that the team can’t have it both ways considering having it both ways has been their stated goal from day one. It’s even funnier in the context of the rest of the interview, where IMac goes on to defend the Canucks’ attempts to be competitive and rebuild at the same time, something he just said doesn’t work. Hmm…

In this instance, IMac has provided us with a classic example of moving the goal posts. The message from the outset from this management group has been that they could compete for the playoffs, and that a winning environment will help the development of their young players. There have been many people in this market that disagree with that direction, but it only seems fair to judge the team based on the criteria they themselves have established.

If people think that the young players are already better than the experienced players I’m afraid that’s just not reality. 

It’s difficult to know what players IMac is talking about specifically, but at face value this couldn’t be further from the truth. In general, this line of thinking is extremely flawed from the outset, as it can be used to imply that experience makes Paul Gaustad a better forward than Auston Matthews. That’s likely distorting MacIntyre’s point, but his assertion doesn’t ring any more true when applied to the Canucks. This season, only three Canucks’ players produced offense at a top-six clip: Bo Horvat, Jannik Hansen, and Sven Baertschi. Those players rank 5th, 7th, and 8th among Canucks forwards in TOI/GP, respectively. So, the idea that ice time has been divvied up in a manner befitting a meritocracy doesn’t exactly hold water. Even Hansen, one of the team’s most established players prior to the trade to the San Jose Sharks, wasn’t being used to his full potential at even-strength, and certainly not on the power play.

Older players, even ones that might be considered journeymen, or pedestrian, or depth players in the NHL, if they’ve been around they still have more know-how, they have more trade craft than younger players who have, granted, perhaps more talent, and certainly more potential, but haven’t learned to play the game.”

Given what MacIntyre says immediately following his claim that the Canucks’ veterans are still better options than the team’s youth, it’s likely he’s actually referring to less established players like Nikolay Goldobin and Reid Boucher. That doesn’t make MacIntyre’s claims any less ridiculous, though. While players like Brandon Sutter and Jayson Megna may have the edge over these players in terms of experience, that experience isn’t driving results. They’re among the team’s worst forwards by both offensive and defensive metrics, whereas Boucher’s numbers have been positively glistening, albeit over a small sample. Goldobin is still an unknown commodity for the most part, and carries a reputation for poor defensive play, but he at least provides the team with some form of tangible value, which is more than can be said for some players in the team’s lineup.

I think I speak for most fans when I say that frankly I’m sick and tired hearing that this team has to fight tooth and nail to finish 20th overall because the market won’t support a team that finishes 30th overall. Clearly, this market can’t stand the thought of a rebuild, right? I assume that’s why the trades for Jonathan Dahlen and Nikolay Goldobin, transactions that clearly substituted short-term pain for long-term gain, where met with almost unanimous approval by the fanbase? And why the moves the team has made with it’s eye on the present day have been much less well-received?

Anyone who suggests this market isn’t accustomed to losing needs a serious history lesson, not only regarding the past three years, but also the majority of the thirty or so that preceded the West Coast Express Era. What’s made the Canucks’ recent run of awful play so unpalatable hasn’t been the losses themselves, but the amount of assets, money, and effort that’s been poured into putting lipstick on this pig. Brandon Sutter, Erik Gudbranson, Loui Eriksson… those aren’t transactions that were made with the intention of making the team’s future brighter. They were made for the express purpose of improving the team in the here and now. From that standpoint, they failed spectacularly.

To his credit, IMac does have enough sense to see that the team’s young players have more talent and potential than their older counterparts. They just have to learn to play the game. From where I stand, it would seem that the easiest way to learn to play would be for those players to get as many reps as possible while the games don’t mean anything, rather than by sitting in favour of players that won’t be here next season.

Maybe that’s unfair criticism. You can’t have it both ways. Unless you’re the Canucks from six months ago, apparently.

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Man I wish I was thinking as clearly as you. Great points.

 

But uhh, there are injuries and illnesses rampantly circulating the dressing room... Ya no sane fan is going to be up in arms about how our season has went.

 

I would be up in arms if we didn't have a look at what we have. INCLUDING SUBBAN. If it's true and WD coaches not to lose... he's already lost.